Colt McCoy...Franchise QB?

Brown Leader · 02-09-2011, 05:50 PM

*first-I'd consider a franchise QB to be anyone the team has considerable investment in and are counting on to bring them a championship.*

Posted on the team board but I'm looking for a broader opinion.

Some fan banter...

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My prediction is that in two years time he will have solidified himself as a better than serviceable to very good starting QB, but I'm not banking on elite. He will look just fine with some more weapons on offense and a defense that is at least slightly better than average.

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Ken Stabler, Joe Montana and most recently Drew Brees had non-rocket arms and they all ended up winning a super bowl. Even if McCoy only ends up being as good as Chad Pennington, I am excited to have him because quality QBs are few and far between in this league.

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Anyway we have more pressing issues in terms of another playmaker at WR and someone to get to the QB.

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Colt is the guy. They may draft a back up for Colt and it will likely be in the 6th round I would say that they will keep an eye on tyrod taylor of Va Tech. he would be a very good late round QB to pick up that fits the system flawlessly and fits the type of QB that Holmgren loves a QB that is pass first he can run but he runs with his eyes down field. Also a smart guy who is supposed to have a good work ethic. the first 3 rounds will be dedicated to WR, DL, LB, and DB. All spots they need to find starting quality players.

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You have to suspect that they won't be drafting a QB at #6 under any cirucmstances. Picking that high, they simply need to select the best player available. McCoy may or may not be "the guy" for the future, but he's shown that he's "a guy" that can hold down the fort while the team is built around him. Right now, the team needs to be built to beat the Ravens and the Steelers, and that means physical players that can play in three yards and a cloud of dust; in other words, keep the offense on the field chewing clock and give us a good look at the other punters in the AFC North.

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Colt played against the Steelers twice, Baltimore, Jets, Patriots, Saints and Cincinnati
Name for me another Cleveland QB since the comeback that takes the team in a 2-min drill against the Jets to a tying TD. Then leads them to a winning drive in OT and one of his lame-a$$ receivers fumbles the ball.
Going into Camp as the #1 with all those reps will work wonders for him.
Colt showed me a lot. His end-of-season problems had more to do with the opponents and a defense that mailed it in, rather than the weather. He’ll be fine.

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Funny how Colt is reading the tea leaves about his weak arm,Now professing his innocence or I mean his injury ??? He's a marked man now,they have film on him and he will be what he is another Danny Waurfel.

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Should the front office accept Colt is the guy or look for someone better? My feeling is all teams should continue to look for better players at all positions all the time. Trouble is Cleveland has too many weak spots.

Regarding his pinched nerve, the National Championship game was the 2nd time. Many Texas insiders felt he hadn't fully recovered from the first one which happened on a QB sneak at the goal line. Does this make him injury prone? The answer either way is just opinion. All 3 QB's went down with an ankle injury, possibly they came from a team weakness instead of being injury prone.

Very interesting DC take...

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...ght=Colt+McCoy

Two names that keep coming up in regards to McCoy possibly being a franchise QB are Jeff Garcia and Drew Brees. I was a big fan of Garcia and think he will forever be underrated-I liked Brees coming out of Purdue and was surprised at his early struggles in SD but I'm not a fan of either comparison. I don't think McCoy has the velocity or mobility of Garcia or the arm strength of Brees out of Purdue. And Brees' athletic ability is underrated. Colt certainly beats a coming out of Purdue Brees in a race but one of the most memorable plays I remember from Brees in college was him standing flat-footed-eyes downfield and hurdling a would be sacker-completely clearing him-landing, resetting and completing a down field pass.

At times last season Colt reminded me of a minature rookie Roethlisberger with his ability to squirt out of danger and make something happen and take what the defense gave him and I think his ultimate success would come if he could consistently make plays downfield like this. But I'm skeptical he could consistently do this (make plays downfield) and stay healthy with his stature (staying healthy for much of his college career means nothing in pros) or become a franchise caliber guy from the pocket, again because of his stature and arm strength.

As far as a first round QB-It seems to me Shurmur would prefer his own guy to develop but then again Colt was taken by Pat's boss. The real question is whether Holmgren/Heckert are sold on him after figuring him to sit and learn longer. McNabb to Cleveland would be a shock to me because I still think McNabb is a top QB and could really help out a contending team rather than a rebuilding one. I still contend they will draft Cam Newton is he's available.

Splat · 02-09-2011, 05:52 PM

I vote to early to tell.

Saints-Tigers · 02-09-2011, 05:55 PM

Very meh. Didn't see anything from him to make me think he was anything more than a stop gap.

WinslowBodden · 02-09-2011, 06:02 PM

No idea, give me 4 years.

Pat Sims 90 · 02-09-2011, 06:04 PM

I see him a decent spot starter but he is not going to lead any team to the Superbowl.

BeerBaron · 02-09-2011, 06:09 PM

Along the same lines as Ryan Fitzpatrick I think. Smarts, accuracy and a bit of mobility make him good for an undertalented team who needs him to be scappy, but he doesn't have franchise QB tools to work with.

And I disagree about comparisons to Drew Brees. Brees has at worst, an average arm. He plays the game more like a minature franchise QB than someone like McCoy who gets by more with being scappy and having moderate athleticism.

A few more years and we'll know for sure. He's an excellent stop-gap who'll pull out some wins he shouldn't, but I don't see him as a guy who will lead a perennial playoff squad.

Sportsfan486 · 02-09-2011, 06:11 PM

I think his physical tools are more reminiscent of Brees out of college then some seem to believe. I think Brees really improved over his first few years in the NFL, especially in regards to arm strength and deep ball accuracy. He had some questions regarding the deep ball when he came into the league.

The question is if he has the work ethic of Brees and if he'll get the same kind of talent around him that Brees was/has been afforded (which was quite a bit.)

His skillset and physique obviously aren't the prototype and more QBs with those limitations fail then succeed but I liked what he did this year and he's got a RB and a LT, which is a good start.

Brent · 02-09-2011, 06:13 PM

if he were throwing to AJ Green, I would like to see the results.

BeerBaron · 02-09-2011, 06:15 PM

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Originally Posted by Brent

if he were throwing to AJ Green, I would like to see the results.

Be the TO to his Jeff Garcia......although Green doesn't seem like he'd be even 1% of the headcase.

WinslowBodden · 02-09-2011, 06:15 PM

Something came out recently about how his shoulder was bugging him the entire year, so it'll be interesting to see how he does next year.

He was so accurate until the last couple games of the year and made great decisions.

Problem is his deep ball, he misses that on a regular basis which killed us in certain spots.

BeerBaron · 02-09-2011, 06:20 PM

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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden

Something came out recently about how his shoulder was bugging him the entire year, so it'll be interesting to see how he does next year.

He was so accurate until the last couple games of the year and made great decisions.

Problem is his deep ball, he misses that on a regular basis which killed us in certain spots.

As someone who had to watch Kyle Orton's deep passes for about 4 years float down like punts, I know how demoralizing that can be.

And it takes me to my argument that there isn't some magical line out there for "minimum required arm strength." The stronger, the better...you will simply be able to do more. Obviously it isn't the only tool required (see Leaf, Ryan....Russell, Jamarcus...George, Jeff....) but the stronger it is, the more you'll be able to offer your playcaller in the NFL.

Sportsfan486 · 02-09-2011, 06:32 PM

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Originally Posted by BeerBaron

As someone who had to watch Kyle Orton's deep passes for about 4 years float down like punts, I know how demoralizing that can be.

And it takes me to my argument that there isn't some magical line out there for "minimum required arm strength." The stronger, the better...you will simply be able to do more. Obviously it isn't the only tool required (see Leaf, Ryan....Russell, Jamarcus...George, Jeff....) but the stronger it is, the more you'll be able to offer your playcaller in the NFL.

I think it's also a common misconception that arm strength doesn't improve. It does. You go from college to an NFL level weight-training program, night to day, and it can definitely get better.

You look at a guy like Aaron Rodgers who really was a WC, dink-and-dunk guy in college and had arm strength but it wasn't stellar, and he's now known as having one of the best deep balls in the league. If you go back and watch his tape over the years you can clearly see it progressing. I use him as an example not to suck his **** but because I know him the best from all I've seen of him.

Drew Brees is the same case. He was NOT known as an accurate and great deep ball guy coming out of college but he's certainly known as such today. People thought Philip Rivers wouldn't be able to hit the deep ball in the NFL with his weird throwing motion and he's the best in the league at it.

Colt played well and deserves an entire, unquestioned season to show his stuff. Not like the Browns are going places next year anyway. Franchise or not, how many teams in the league would trade away their entire draft to have a Jeff Garcia in his prime? It's sadly quite a few.

Do I think he'll be a franchise QB? No. Do I think he played well enough to have a shot next year at being their starting QB? Absolutely.

Franchise QBs are rare. There's, what, 6? maybe 7? in the league right now that are legitimately "this is our guy, period. If you offered me Peyton Manning for him straight up, I'd say no."

BeerBaron · 02-09-2011, 06:49 PM

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Originally Posted by Sportsfan486

I think it's also a common misconception that arm strength doesn't improve. It does. You go from college to an NFL level weight-training program, night to day, and it can definitely get better.

You look at a guy like Aaron Rodgers who really was a WC, dink-and-dunk guy in college and had arm strength but it wasn't stellar, and he's now known as having one of the best deep balls in the league. If you go back and watch his tape over the years you can clearly see it progressing. I use him as an example not to suck his **** but because I know him the best from all I've seen of him.

Drew Brees is the same case. He was NOT known as an accurate and great deep ball guy coming out of college but he's certainly known as such today. People thought Philip Rivers wouldn't be able to hit the deep ball in the NFL with his weird throwing motion and he's the best in the league at it.

Colt played well and deserves an entire, unquestioned season to show his stuff. Not like the Browns are going places next year anyway. Franchise or not, how many teams in the league would trade away their entire draft to have a Jeff Garcia in his prime? It's sadly quite a few.

Do I think he'll be a franchise QB? No. Do I think he played well enough to have a shot next year at being their starting QB? Absolutely.

Franchise QBs are rare. There's, what, 6? maybe 7? in the league right now that are legitimately "this is our guy, period. If you offered me Peyton Manning for him straight up, I'd say no."

No one is saying he shouldn't get that chance. He's earned that much at least. Now, will he take it and run with it and find success in the long run? Not so sure about that...

And on franchise QBs..yes, they're fairly rare, but teams are always looking to create the next one. And they needs to have at least averages with room to improve across the board in the tool department.

Like, for example, guys who I would definitely say are in the franchise QB territory right now are (no particular order) Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, Big Ben, Rivers, and Eli. So there's 7 in my mind.

And guys in the next group with the tools/ability required, but who just need to find a little more success or put everything together are Matt Ryan, Schaub, Freeman, Cutler, Vick, Flacco, Sanchez, Romo, and Cassel.

Then there are the young guys who seem to be pointed in the right direction but the jury is still out on...namely Stafford and Bradford.

So there, 18 QBs...over half the league...have a QB who has what I'd call "franchise potential."

The potential isn't actually that rare I don't think, but guys who ever realize it are.

niel89 · 02-09-2011, 06:15 PM

He is worth giving a solid look. Give him an honest shot.

bucfan12 · 02-09-2011, 06:16 PM

Ehh, he might have somewhat of a Jeff Garcia type career in my opinion. Average QB in the west coast offense. Not highly productive, but won't turn it over. Won't threaten you with his arm and be able to stretch the field.

Brown Leader · 02-09-2011, 06:24 PM

"You think you can be meee!!"

But really, this guy is underrated. Someone in the other thread said he was like Romo in his early good years-spot on.

DeepThreat · 02-09-2011, 06:38 PM

I say no. His arm is awful. He can't throw to the sideline and loses accuracy on deeper routes because he needs to put more force into the throw. His deep ball is absolutely awful as well.

Saints-Tigers · 02-09-2011, 06:42 PM

He's definitely not good enough to pass up someone if you feel they can be a franchise QB.

49erNation85 · 02-09-2011, 06:43 PM

i think he has a good shot given some god WR to throw too in Cleveland.I wouldn't give up on him just yet.Hes young so he is going need time to improve just Tebow.He doesn't have the elite arm strength as some of the new rookie QB 's but like some OP said he has great football IQ and read defense well and great mobility.SHould be fun to watch him grow into a good starter franchise I dunno .

kalbears13 · 02-09-2011, 07:17 PM

Obviously it's too early to tell but it this thread is for pure speculation. It's like the draft...

I think he's a solid starting QB but he's not going to win games by himself. Does that make him a franchise QB? depends on your definition. He certainly will be put in the best system for his style under Shurmur.

thegreatone · 02-09-2011, 07:20 PM

Too early to tell. Everyone thought he wasn't anywhere near ready to start in the NFL, but he didn't look half bad, so it is a good start.

Jvig43 · 02-09-2011, 07:45 PM

Outside of Hillis, the guy had an alright rookie season playing with a pretty terrible team (no offense Brown fans). I would say it's too early to tell, but if he continues to improve and gets some more talent around him than I dont see why not. If there is a NFL next year, we'll have a much better indication on this depending on his progression or lack of. Hopefully he doesn't get thrown around like Brady Quinn did where one week he was the starter and than the next week he third string.

WinslowBodden · 02-09-2011, 07:47 PM

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Originally Posted by Jvig43

Outside of Hillis, the guy had an alright rookie season playing with a pretty terrible team (no offense Brown fans). I would say it's too early to tell, but if he continues to improve and gets some more talent around him than I dont see why not. If there is a NFL next year, we'll have a much better indication on this depending on his progression or lack of. Hopefully he doesn't get thrown around like Brady Quinn did where one week he was the starter and than the next week he third string.

That was an odd situation with Quinn and Anderson, it was pretty much trying to see who was the better one and no one proved everything, so they just kept getting flip flopped.

Also, Quinn was dreadful so I hope he doesn't end up like Quinn.

Monomach · 02-09-2011, 08:49 PM

Franchise QB? I hate when I have to label someone as that.

What I'll say is that you could win with him. I doubt he singlehandedly carries the Browns to any significant number of wins, but I could see success with him at QB.

I got laughed at and I'll continue to get laughed at, but I had him as my #2 QB for the last draft...behind Clausen.

Jvig43 · 02-09-2011, 08:53 PM

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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden

That was an odd situation with Quinn and Anderson, it was pretty much trying to see who was the better one and no one proved everything, so they just kept getting flip flopped.

Also, Quinn was dreadful so I hope he doesn't end up like Quinn.

Either way when you invest in a QB like Quinn that early, and you have a vet you could just trade and get good value with, you dont keep flip flopping between decisions. You either throw the rookie to the wolves or you sit him and let him learn the system. Cleveland tried it both ways and even despite Quinn playing horribly I still look at it as Cleveland squandering any potential they had with that kid regarding the way they handled the situation. Very poor decision making by that organization.