Jim Tressel resigns

[draftguru151]

ESPN reporting it.

[CameronCropper]

Wow.

It was only a matter of time until it happened, but at the same time it's pretty hard to imagine Ohio State without Jim Tressel.

[diabsoule]

He should have been fired when the news first broke about everything that has gone down under his watch.

[phlysac]

Being from Westmoreland County (Greensburg, few miles from Jeannette, PA) I always knew that Terrelle Pryor would have historic impact on the Buckeyes.


oops

[FUNBUNCHER]

Can someone make the case about why Tressel should have resigned/been fired??

As far as I know,(still assuming there must had even more against Tressel), his only 'crime' was not reporting that he had players buying tattoos with the illegal sale of OSU team merchandise.

IMO this is kind of a minor infraction, but others are acting like Tressel's infractions were on the level of paying recruits and paying his players once they arrived at Ohio State.

I'm still shocked Tressel was forced to resign.

This IMO isn't on the level of Pete Carroll KNOWING that an agent bought a house for Reggie Bush's parents.
Same type of infraction, technically, but it's sort of like equating shoplifting a candy bar to jacking someone's car. Both are theft, but not the same degree.

[phlysac]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Can someone make the case about why Tressel should have resigned/been fired??

Reports of countless players receiving illegal benefits for quite some time, while Tressel knew it was happening. (Ex: Its been happening for years and many players benefit each year, and Tressel knows)

I'm not judging. Just stating what is being said.

[EricCartmann]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

... This IMO isn't on the level of Pete Carroll KNOWING that an agent bought a house for Reggie Bush's parents....

Pete Carrol said he did not know that Bush's house was paid by an agent. The blind-mute-deaf guy that lived next to Carrol knew, but he Carrol himself did not. He said so.

[mellojello]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

This IMO isn't on the level of Pete Carroll KNOWING that an agent bought a house for Reggie Bush's parents.
Same type of infraction, technically, but it's sort of like equating shoplifting a candy bar to jacking someone's car. Both are theft, but not the same degree.

For starters, bush's parents were accused of living in a house rent free, nobody ever purchased a house for them. The NCAA was never close to linking Carroll to knowing anything. If you ever read that NCAA report, the evidence was pretty flimsy against SC. They associated the university's "knowledge" of the infractions on the RB coach, which was based on a single two minute cell phone record showing the "agent" and McNair spoke. McNair claims to have never spoken with the agent and who knows what took place on that phone call...I could literally call someone and blabber about selling something or requesting donations for my alma mater for two minutes. If you've never read the NCAA report, it was pretty bad and the punishment hardly fits the crime. Mostly though, a theme that the NCAA repeated throughout the report was that with great power, USC had greater responsibility than it demonstrated - literally, whoever wrote these lines in the report must have watched Spiderman the night before. With a handful of self-reported and minor violations, along with the "great power, great responsibility theme," and a lot of speculative evidence, they hit SC with the "lack of institutional control." That's the truth and I'm a Cal fan.

As for Ohio State, this is more than one guy (Bush in the case of USC) receiving improper benefits - from the sounds of it, everyone knew. When violations are as blatant as is being reported, this sounds a lot more of what I would consider "lack of institutional control." I think that Ohio St.'s punishment should be more severe than SC's if even half of being reported is true, but if the punishment is not, I wouldn't be surprised either - nothing surprises me much anymore.

[JoeJoeBrown]

Originally Posted by mellojello

For starters, bush's parents were accused of living in a house rent free, nobody ever purchased a house for them. The NCAA was never close to linking Carroll to knowing anything. If you ever read that NCAA report, the evidence was pretty flimsy against SC. They associated the university's "knowledge" of the infractions on the RB coach, which was based on a single two minute cell phone record showing the "agent" and McNair spoke. McNair claims to have never spoken with the agent and who knows what took place on that phone call...I could literally call someone and blabber about selling something or requesting donations for my alma mater for two minutes. If you've never read the NCAA report, it was pretty bad and the punishment hardly fits the crime. Mostly though, a theme that the NCAA repeated throughout the report was that with great power, USC had greater responsibility than it demonstrated - literally, whoever wrote these lines in the report must have watched Spiderman the night before. With a handful of self-reported and minor violations, along with the "great power, great responsibility theme," and a lot of speculative evidence, they hit SC with the "lack of institutional control." That's the truth and I'm a Cal fan.

As for Ohio State, this is more than one guy (Bush in the case of USC) receiving improper benefits - from the sounds of it, everyone knew. When violations are as blatant as is being reported, this sounds a lot more of what I would consider "lack of institutional control." I think that Ohio St.'s punishment should be more severe than SC's if even half of being reported is true, but if the punishment is not, I wouldn't be surprised either - nothing surprises me much anymore.

You are ignoring apartments out of their price range for other players and the whole OJ Mayo ordeal. It was an overall lack of institutional control for the AD. Both football and basketball were punished.

If USC had reported them instead of circling their wagons, they would not be in this much trouble. It does appear that not giving info is beneficial (i.e. Auburn) but if you get caught, your punishment will be worse.

OSU is going to be a litmus test for how schools will act when people come sniffing around. If they get less punishment than USC, then schools may be willing to be open. If not, no one in their right mind should open their doors to the NCAA.

[mellojello]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown

You are ignoring apartments out of their price range for other players and the whole OJ Mayo ordeal. It was an overall lack of institutional control for the AD. Both football and basketball were punished.

If USC had reported them instead of circling their wagons, they would not be in this much trouble. It does appear that not giving info is beneficial (i.e. Auburn) but if you get caught, your punishment will be worse.

OSU is going to be a litmus test for how schools will act when people come sniffing around. If they get less punishment than USC, then schools may be willing to be open. If not, no one in their right mind should open their doors to the NCAA.

Agreed, I oversimplified my post, but the essence is the same. Leinart's father paid the majority of rent for his son and Dwayne Jarrett, sort of Leinart's father's bad, but this was not a known common thing at SC. The Mayo thing looked pretty bad. Mike Garrett was a total jackass though and his arrogance hurt the image of SC, probably pushed the NCAA towards a more severe punishment. Doubt hiring Kiffin helped any. Also, keep in mind that much of the reported violations in the NCAA report were self reported by USC, they fought to the end about the Reggie Bush allegations, and most of the stuff that was swirling around in the media was not in the NCAA report.

Once a scandal breaks like this - as Ohio St. fans probably now know - a lot of BS and sensationalism becomes published. I'm sure Jim Tressel and Ohio State are not as evil as he is portrayed - I always take media reports with a grain of salt. Everyone is flawed, there's some good and some bad, but the bad stuff is what everyone wants to know about.

[T-RICH49]

weather it be resignation or a firing the end result was gonna be Tressel out

[SolidGold]

I wonder if Tressel will coach again?

[SolidGold]

The curse of Terelle Pryor...first it got RichRod and now it gets Tressell.

Nothing like ESPN starting up the Urban Meyer to OSU rumors.

[phlysac]

Not too may Ray Small and Mark Titus fans in Columbus.

[phlysac]

Basically, IMO, the NCAA is going to investigate VERY closely and Tressel has been at the forefront all along. Harken back to this nugget...

Clarett claims cash, cars among benefits

Ending six months of silence, former Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett has told ESPN The Magazine in this week's edition that he "took the fall" for the school during a 2003 NCAA investigation and that he's talking now because he wants to "clear his name" with National Football League owners and general managers.

Clarett says that while he was at Ohio State in 2002 and 2003 head coach Jim Tressel, as well as certain members of his staff and boosters, provided him with improper benefits. He says he covered up Tressel's improprieties during the NCAA investigation and afterward, Ohio State "blackballed'' him from the football program.

According to Clarett, Tressel arranged loaner cars for him and Tressel's brother, Dick, found him lucrative landscaping jobs that he did not even have to show up for. He says members of Tressel's staff also introduced him to boosters who'd slip him thousands of dollars, and the better he played, the more cash he'd receive. He says boosters eventually began inviting him into their homes or would meet him out in the community.

"When you'd leave, [the booster] sets you straight," Clarett told The Magazine. "They say, 'You got any money in your pocket?' They make sure your money's straight."


Clarett also says he likely would have been ineligible for Ohio State's national title season of 2002 if the football staff had not "aligned'' him with an academic advisor whose goal was simply to keep him eligible. He says the academic advisor enrolled him in Independent Study courses and also put him with hand-picked teachers who would pass him whether he attended their classes or not. He says his advisor also introduced him to a tutor who prepared outlines and told him what to write for assignments.

Another former Ohio State player, linebacker Marco Cooper (2000-01; Spring 2002), corroborated many of Clarett's comments. Cooper, who was suspended from the team following two arrests for drug possession, says he also had bogus landscaping jobs, that a booster helped furnish his apartment, and that he was able to borrow cars from local Columbus dealerships in exchange for signed OSU memorabilia.

In a story separate from the Clarett issue, another former Ohio State player, current Maryland running back Sammy Maldonado, says he was placed in so many courses that did not put him on the road to graduation that only 17 of a possible 40 credits earned would transfer to his new school.

Ohio State officials have declined to comment on many of the allegations. School President Karen Holbrook, Jim Tressel and Dick Tressel refused to respond through spokespersons, while Athletic Director Andy Geiger said he would not answer questions until after the magazine story appeared, if then.


Maurice Clarett says he received improper benefits during his time at Ohio State.
"We went through a yearlong investigation of our academic programs, everything that [Clarett] has to allege,'' Geiger said. "He vowed to me that he would do something to try to get us and this may be what he's trying to do. So he's on his own.

"We dealt with this guy [Clarett] for 18 months. I just hope you've checked into the background and history of who you're dealing with.''

Clarett's former academic advisor and tutor also declined comment. The NCAA, which investigated Clarett for potential academic and financial irregularities in the summer of 2003, said it is against its policy to discuss the Clarett case.

Clarett, 21, who gained 1,237 yards and scored 18 touchdowns in 2002, his only collegiate season, says he was asked during the 2003 NCAA investigation whether he received a loaner car from Tressel, and, to protect the coach, he says, he answered no. He says when he was asked about other indiscretions, he answered, "I don't know" or "I don't remember," which was a violation of NCAA Rule 10.1, requiring forthright answers.

"What would have become of Ohio State if I said everything?'' Clarett told The Magazine. "Half the team would have been suspended, and it would have been worse for everybody. I was like, 'Why don't I just take it?'"

The school suspended him for the entire 2003 season, and when Clarett asked to be reinstated for 2004, he says the athletic department systematically "blackballed him" by taking away the teachers and tutors.

Clarett then tried applying for the 2004 NFL Draft, and was first ruled eligible and then ineligible, because he wasn't the requisite three years removed from high school. He says he was "depressed" by the court's ultimate decision to ban him, but is now working out in anticipation of the 2005 draft in April. He says he is hoping this winter to play in this winter's East-West Shrine game and the Senior Bowl, all-star invitationals that would be his first football games in two years.

Several pro executives say, as of now, the running back could go as low as the fourth or fifth round. Clarett contends he will change any negative perceptions at the NFL combine in February.

"I'm thinking, 'NFL GMs know college players take money,' " Clarett says. "It was nothing like I stole something. Nothing like I'm running from the law or I'm dragging a girl down the stairs. No domestic violence. No nothing. [But] I got to clear myself up now, because it's affecting the minds of the GMs."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1919059

[FUNBUNCHER]

Thanks, phylsac, your post puts everything in perspective now.

I didn't realize Tressel had a cloud of suspicion over his head for years now, it wasn't just this latest episode that forced him out of his job at Ohio State.

Like when Al Capone got busted for tax evasion, I suppose the NCAA suspected Tressel was running a dirty program for years, and Ohio State probably knew too.

Still think he was a good coach on Saturdays, but it takes more than that to keep a job at a school like OSU.

[JoeJoeBrown]

I'm glad JT resigned.

However, I think this sets back the regulation of CFB a whole bunch. Why?

Because OSU self reported all of this stuff. The Tat5 would have come out in an FBI investigation eventually. But the rest of it wouldn't have if OSU wanted to sit on it. Instead, they reported it.

There is going to be a whole bunch of stuff uncovered because of cooperation with regulators.

Now, if they had not revealed anything, like so many schools, there would have been suspensions of five players and that's it.

The lesson learned is do not cooperate with the NCAA. They have no legal powers to force an investigation.

What is the value of a system that lets the guilty and quiet get off more lightly than the guilty that cooperate and share their information?

And please do not take this as an OSU homer thing. I think JT needed to be gone (fired or resigned). He was dirty and got caught. His actions have given OSU a black eye and that is no one's faults but his and the rest of the OSU football community's.

I'm just saying that if you were running an NCAA AD, it would be smart to be as opaque as possible. Block as much info as possible. Odds are in your favor that your punishment will be far less severe due to lack of evidence.

[benchod]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown

I'm glad JT resigned.

However, I think this sets back the regulation of CFB a whole bunch. Why?

Because OSU self reported all of this stuff. The Tat5 would have come out in an FBI investigation eventually. But the rest of it wouldn't have if OSU wanted to sit on it. Instead, they reported it.

There is going to be a whole bunch of stuff uncovered because of cooperation with regulators.

Now, if they had not revealed anything, like so many schools, there would have been suspensions of five players and that's it.

The lesson learned is do not cooperate with the NCAA. They have no legal powers to force an investigation.

What is the value of a system that lets the guilty and quiet get off more lightly than the guilty that cooperate and share their information?

And please do not take this as an OSU homer thing. I think JT needed to be gone (fired or resigned). He was dirty and got caught. His actions have given OSU a black eye and that is no one's faults but his and the rest of the OSU football community's.

I'm just saying that if you were running an NCAA AD, it would be smart to be as opaque as possible. Block as much info as possible. Odds are in your favor that your punishment will be far less severe due to lack of evidence.

The problem with that is that the NCAA can just use their blanket punishment policy of "lack of institutional control"

They used it against USC. There was nothing proven, other than a conversation that the RB coach had on the phone with the agent who allegedly bought the house. That was their major piece of evidence.

For OSU, they have an actual paper trail and yes, cooperation. But it also shows that they played an entire season with players who should have been ineligible.

The NCAA will come down on them as hard as they did USC, if not harder because of actual evidence. They seem to be on a tear to set examples. The only problem the NCAA will have is when the colleges start to fight back.

[JoeJoeBrown]

Originally Posted by benchod

The NCAA will come down on them as hard as they did USC, if not harder because of actual evidence. They seem to be on a tear to set examples. The only problem the NCAA will have is when the colleges start to fight back.

Yes, the coming down hard on OSU is going to tell people to not comply at all. None of the JT stuff would have come out had they sat on it.

Like I've said before, I think that there will be a movement in major CFB to ditch the NCAA. Following Olympic style rules of professionalism will eventually be the result, regardless of whether major CFB sticks with the NCAA or not.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown

Yes, the coming down hard on OSU is going to tell people to not comply at all. None of the JT stuff would have come out had they sat on it.

Like I've said before, I think that there will be a movement in major CFB to ditch the NCAA. Following Olympic style rules of professionalism will eventually be the result, regardless of whether major CFB sticks with the NCAA or not.

CFB alone can't ditch the NCAA. It would have to come from College Presidents agreeing to abandon the entire organization as a regulator for college athletics. That's simply not going to happen; contrary to what you might think, administrative elites are quite happy with the NCAA.

I think it's far more likely that they come to some common agreement for increased stipends for revenue generating sports teams.

[JoeJoeBrown]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

CFB alone can't ditch the NCAA. It would have to come from College Presidents agreeing to abandon the entire organization as a regulator for college athletics. That's simply not going to happen; contrary to what you might think, administrative elites are quite happy with the NCAA.

I think it's far more likely that they come to some common agreement for increased stipends for revenue generating sports teams.

They might not be happy with it if it interferes with their bottom line. And it is right now.

Like I said, there will be a push towards formal professionalism, and I think it's Olympic style. We'll see how it stands in 10 years.

[SativaDominant]

Originally Posted by benchod

The problem with that is that the NCAA can just use their blanket punishment policy of "lack of institutional control"

They used it against USC. There was nothing proven, other than a conversation that the RB coach had on the phone with the agent who allegedly bought the house. That was their major piece of evidence.

For OSU, they have an actual paper trail and yes, cooperation. But it also shows that they played an entire season with players who should have been ineligible.

The NCAA will come down on them as hard as they did USC, if not harder because of actual evidence. They seem to be on a tear to set examples. The only problem the NCAA will have is when the colleges start to fight back.

Except for that little tidbit in the NCAA's investigation about both Pete Carroll and the associate AD at USC setting up a sports marketing internship with the group that Reggie Bush had signed with.

Direct quotes from the NCAA report:

There was information in the record that the former head football coach encouraged sports marketer A to hire student-athletes as interns. A current NFLPA certified agent ("sports agent B") is the chairman of a sports agency and a colleague of sports marketer A. He reported that the former head football coach asked sports marketer A to consider hiring football student-athletes as interns in his agency. Sports agent B reported:

(Sports marketer A) was like, „yeah, here's (the former head
football coach) and the year before, he, he's tryin' to get me to hire,
you know, three players, you know.‟

…How many players, I don't even know, maybe he tried to get him
to hire ten….but it was totally agreed upon between (the former
head football coach) and (sports marketer A) that there was an
internship program for that summer. That's all I do know.

At the hearing, the former head coach denied that he asked sports marketer A to hire football student-athletes as interns, although he acknowledged that he knew sports marketer A and that he (sports marketer A) had "something about his past the years before that had gone wrong . . . (and) it was related to the NFL.”
[Note: At the hearing the institution's general counsel reported that, in 1995,
sports marketer A had "pleaded guilty to mail fraud for defrauding the NFL."]

In the spring of 2005, sports marketer B contacted the associate director of
athletics to determine if student-athletes would be interested in an internship with his (sports marketer B's) agency. [Note: sports marketer B and the associate director of athletics had been at another NCAA member institution at the same time and were acquainted with each other both there and subsequently in Los Angeles] The associate director of athletics confirmed that sports marketer B contacted him about employing student-athletes in paid internships at the agency.

Ultimately, three student-athletes, including student-athlete 1, worked as interns at the agency in the summer of 2005.

The former director of compliance confirmed the associate director of athletics' account of how the internships came about and added:

. . . it was initially set up while I was there, and the talk was it was
gonna be a continuing thing . . . to offer the opportunity to USC
student-athletes.

Sports marketers A and B had previously been in partnership with another
individual in a different agency. This individual stated that while the three were in partnership, there had never been any interns in their company.

It is permissible to hire student-athletes, as long as the circumstances under which they are hired, work and are paid comport with NCAA legislation. In this
instance, the circumstances under which the three student-athletes, including student-athlete 1, were hired constituted a special arrangement made through the sports marketing agency and the institution's athletics department. Despite sports marketer B's claim to the contrary, there is no evidence that the internship positions provided to the USC student-athletes in the summer of 2005 were solicited externally. USC student-athletes and only USC student-athletes were hired for these positions. The circumstances surrounding the hiring of these student-athletes made sports marketers A and B, as well as their agency, representatives of the institution's athletics interests. This, in turn, gave rise to a heightened institutional responsibility to assess and monitor the employment situation and the relationship between student-athlete 1 and sports marketers A
and B.

Both Pete Carroll and the USC administration knew who these guys were. And, really, the whole USC thing would have just gone away if Reggie Bush had just paid Lloyd Lake and Michael Michaels. Allowing it to turn into a lawsuit (and then attempting to fight that suit instead of settling immediately) was absolutely idiotic. To scoff that nobody knew, or that the only evidence was a phone call is downright false.

[SolidGold]

Tressel got caught with his pants down...I wonder what this means for Pryor, Daniel Herron, DeVier Posey, Mike Adams and Solomon Thomas. How will OSU fans treat these players now, especially Pryor who has not lived up the hype and now played a huge part in Tressel resigning?

Also, it should be interesting to see how this effects their NFL Draft stock as well.

[JoeJoeBrown]

Originally Posted by SolidGold

Tressel got caught with his pants down...I wonder what this means for Pryor, Daniel Herron, DeVier Posey, Mike Adams and Solomon Thomas. How will OSU fans treat these players now, especially Pryor who has not lived up the hype and now played a huge part in Tressel resigning?

Also, it should be interesting to see how this effects their NFL Draft stock as well.

That is a really good point about the fans. The psychos are going to be even more neanderthal like than normal.

[keylime_5]

this is ********, way to go Gene Smith and Gordon Gee by doing this now so that instead of hiring a new coach we have to wait until December so that our recruiting class will be **** and a bunch of our current players will leave since they have no ******* idea who they will be playing for beyond the 2011 season. way to go AD, if Gene Smith is still running the department in January 2012 then it is complete ********.

Tressel was a class man and coach and taught his players how to be men not just football players. find one person who ever knew tressel say one bad thing about the man ever, it just isn't out there. can't say the same about nick saban, les miles, urban meyer, or countless other coaches out there. Tressel tried to protect his players and made a mistake, so let's have the NCAA have a full on investigation and what'd ya know, the boosters are giving kids money and people are getting deals on cars and tattoos which is something that doesn't go on at any other university except Ohio State. Auburn is clean, Alabama and LSU are clean. The NCAA is a joke and the only reason they forced out Tressel today is because a big big booster cut the school off this week, so the board of trustees took action. The scumbags in all of this weren't the men coaching football.

/rant.

carry on.