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Old 09-18-2011, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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Default 2012 Chiefs Draft Discussion

Well, since the season has already gone to ****.

Suck for Luck. I heard that 2 years ago so please if you hear anyone taking credit for it, kill them.

Personally, if we have number 1 I want Lucky, after that I want best OT. Albert has been playing better but upgrade needed.

A name I am liking with each game he plays is Matt Barkley. I love his overall game and I think he is gonna be 1000x's the NFL QB than Landry Jones will be.

SO gents, thoughts?

Starting week through I will bring list my top 3-5 needs and some prospects to keep an eye on.
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 09-18-2011, 11:38 PM    (permalink
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If they are in a position to take either Luck or Barkley they have to pull the trigger.

I'm so sick of hand me down QB's... The Chiefs have NEVER had a QB they drafted become the guy.

I mean **** they haven't drafted a QB in the first round since 1983 and yes it didn't work out but I think it's time to give it another shot.
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Old 09-18-2011, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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Yeah if we're picking #1 it has to be Luck, there is no question.

boe and I have talked about it but Luck would come into a great situation. One of the best RBs, a solid (what has happened?) defense, and a lot of weapons on the offensive side of the ball.

Either way, it's a QB if we're picking first and it's a no brainer.
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Old 09-19-2011, 12:12 AM    (permalink
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I don't think they'll be very close to the #1 pick because I think Haley's going to fix the offense within the next week or two. But if it is, they have to take a QB. And that's not really saying much negative about Cassel...it's just the situation. I think Cassel's done a great job this year with what he's been given.

If this is a 6-10 team, I think Haley's done because there are two guys out there that Pioli would rather have in Josh McDaniels and Eric Mangini. And I like Haley. It's just that he's an offensive guy, and the problem with the Chiefs each year has been the offense.

Maybe things turn around when they get Baldwin in the line-up and can an offense that closer-resembles what Haley ran in Arizona, but they need to figure something out because it's just too predictable and the playcalling doesn't put guys in position to make positive plays. The receivers they have aren't making up for any mistakes, so Cassel has to be perfect.
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Old 09-19-2011, 12:50 AM    (permalink
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You think Josh McDaniels and Eric Mangini are HC candidates? Really? That'd be one of the worst decisions in the history of this franchise, especially when there are guys like Billick, Cowher and Gruden all looking or talking about looking for HC jobs.

And this is not a 6-10 team. This is a 2-14 club right now.
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Old 09-19-2011, 02:36 AM    (permalink
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Yeah...Pioli wouldn't touch those coaches... Ever.

McDaniels and Mangini are his guys. And if Romeo sticks around, McDaniels would actually be a really good hire with Pioli in control. He'd implement an offense that actually makes sense and helps receivers get open and would be much better with Cassel.

I'm thinking the Bill Muir experiment is going to end and the Chiefs will put up a much better showing and be closer to where they should be soon. I'd be happy with Jim Zorn calling the plays. They need to spread the field more. Those bunch formations don't do **** for this team right now.
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Old 09-19-2011, 02:42 AM    (permalink
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How many coaches has Pioli hired? You can't say he wouldn't touch them, you just don't know.

And this "his guys" stuff is pure ********. McDaniels and Mangini had their shots as head coaches, and they were god awful.. McDaniels laughingly so. For someone who I generally believe is pretty accurate most of the time you're waaay off base here.
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Old 09-19-2011, 02:50 AM    (permalink
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How many coaches has Pioli hired? You can't say he wouldn't touch them, you just don't know.

And this "his guys" stuff is pure ********. McDaniels and Mangini had their shots as head coaches, and they were god awful.. McDaniels laughingly so. For someone who I generally believe is pretty accurate most of the time you're waaay off base here.
Pioli hires guys who he has a history with or whose general philosophy in their approach to the game is in line with his... Maybe he takes a stab at Gruden because the Chiefs are a perfect fit for his offense, but I really doubt it... He wanted Mangini when he hired Haley, and McDaniels was already gone when he took the job.

McDaniels struggled because he took on coaching duties as well as GM duties. He was not ready for that, and it showed. If he's mostly just focusing on the offensive side of the ball, he's great.

Mangini...I don't think he did a poor job in either of his stops. He built up that Jets team and never had a QB. What you see in New York now is in large part to what Mangini and Tannenbaum set in motion. I don't think Mangini's a great fit for the Chiefs because they have Romeo, and there's not much out there in the way of offensive coordinators that Mangini would hire (that would be any good).
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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Goodness gracious I hope Pioli doesn't try to hire McDaniels or Mangini if it comes down to it. Neither do I want any of the retreads. History has shown that coaches rarely go to the Super Bowl with a second team. Hopefully he'll look in another direction.

As far as the draft goes, if they are in a position to draft Luck, do it. Otherwise, they desperately need an infusion of talent and depth into the offensive and defensive lines. They are flat not very good.
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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Goodness gracious I hope Pioli doesn't try to hire McDaniels or Mangini if it comes down to it. Neither do I want any of the retreads. History has shown that coaches rarely go to the Super Bowl with a second team. Hopefully he'll look in another direction.

As far as the draft goes, if they are in a position to draft Luck, do it. Otherwise, they desperately need an infusion of talent and depth into the offensive and defensive lines. They are flat not very good.
Some coaches do a great job with a second chance. Bill Belichick and Tom Coughlin, for example. Both learned a great deal from their first runs as head coaches (mostly Coughlin - Belichick was just...in Cleveland). Mangini did an amazing job with the Browns from most accounts, but Holmgren wanted one of his guys running the team on the field.
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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I'm actually going to disagree with you about the OL. The DL I'm 100% on board with, they're not good, but the OL has played better than I anticipated. Jon Asamoah looks like a player at RG and I think Hudson can come in day one next year and take over that Center spot. I'm not sure about Lilja, so if we have the opportunity to slide Albert inside to LG maybe now is the time to do it?

I guess it all depends on how healthy Gaither is and how well he plays.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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Lets stick to the draft.

Dontari Poe was a 5 tech prospect I really enjoyed watching. He reminds me of Kenrick Ellis/Phil Taylor. He will most likely be a 5 tech but could play inside on nickle packages. He is a mountain of a man, who occupies multiple blockers and has a god motor. 6'4-6'5, 330-340 monstrous dude.

Matt Barkley had an inconsistent game, but he makes some plays that not even Mr. Luck can make. I like his ability to go to the 2nd and 3rd progression, his anticipatory skills, ball placement and his footwork has improved greatly.

I think at this time the major needs for KC = QB, ILB, O-line depth
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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I like the team's starters, they just need to add more depth all-around.

With all the injuries and ridiculousness of the schedule, this is still a 6-win team. We saw them get their **** together today, and we should be excited about them getting ready for a Super Bowl run in 2012, not a Top 5 draft pick.

For the draft, if they end up with a Top 10 pick (I see them being at least 4-5 going into the gauntlet portion of the schedule), I like Burfict, Kirkpatrick, or maybe Crick.

I think they need to look at TE's, CB's, S's, WR's, and RB's in the 2nd, 3rd, and beyond. Pick up a G late.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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I think, right now, our needs are as follows:

1. QB. Shouldn't need to explain this one.
2. RT. If Gaither moves to LT and Albert moves to RT, we could potentially be set there.
3. DL. I don't see anything out of Tyson Jackson that instills any sort of confidence.
4. ILB. Belcher could probably be replaced.
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Old 09-25-2011, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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1.QB
2.Depth every where.
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:04 PM    (permalink
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1.QB
2.Depth every where.
Yeah that probably sums it up better, haha.
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Old 09-25-2011, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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We're going to have a top 5 pick. I'd put money on that. They played a struggling Chargers team and got blown out by up and coming Bills and Lions (who are 3-0).. we'll maybe beat the Colts and Dolphins, and maybe the Broncos once, but that's it.

And we will never be a SB contender with Cassel starting. Period.

And I'll ask you this, because I'd really be interested to see your answer: What ******* good does winning 4 games do this team? Nothing. Nothing at all. We could potentially land a franchise QB (and the best to come out in almost two decades) in Luck, but you'd be happier getting Taze? Really?

Give me a break with this.

The bottom line, for me, is this: I'm tired of being an "ok" team. I don't want "ok" anymore. I've been a Chiefs fan for 22 years and we've never been more than "ok".. I want GREAT team. I want FRANCHISE QB. I want #1 offense, and we're never going to have that unless we draft and develop our own QB.
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Old 09-26-2011, 04:21 AM    (permalink
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And I'll ask you this, because I'd really be interested to see your answer: What ******* good does winning 4 games do this team? Nothing. Nothing at all. We could potentially land a franchise QB (and the best to come out in almost two decades) in Luck, but you'd be happier getting Taze? Really?
I'm 4-5 games going into the gauntlet, not 4 games total. I had them winning 11 games this year. Injuries popped up, and they obviously weren't prepared for the first two games.

The Chargers aren't struggling because they lost to the Patriots. The Chiefs have a lot better defense than the Pats right now. The issues have been on the offense, and the offense looked really good against a good defense today. The OL beat the crap out of the Chargers' front seven, and this is what I'd expect the Chiefs to look like (pre-week 1 & 2) if they had an injured Jamaal Charles, Tony Moeaki, and no outside receiver opposite Bowe. The Chiefs had a good look today, and would be in extremely good shape if they'd been able to come out with the win.

Those 4 games aren't even factoring in the effect on the offense Baldwin could have. That's just going off what I saw today...which is what the Chiefs are. A good team that protects the ball, plays good defense, and can make you pay if you try to play the run too hard. With Baldwin, they should be able to really open up the offense, take safeties away from the outside with Pope and Breaston, and have Baldwin and Bowe going 1-on-1 with corners, which is huge for the Chiefs... Then the draws, screens, and power running game makes for a really balanced offense to keep the defense fresh and the opposition guessing.

If the Chiefs are picking #1, of course they have to draft Andrew Luck and hire a new coach (it'll be McDaniels). I don't see that as a remote possibility. This team is still, at worst (even with all the injuries), a 6-win team. Think of the Chargers game as the first game of the season. That's what it is. It's the first game of the season for the Chiefs because it's the first game where they had their **** together.

When I look at this team, if you're picking in the Top 10, you have to get a starter. Not a lot of spots where you can get a definite starter over the current guy because the Chiefs' starters are really solid. I think Burfict is a game changer and a complementary player to DJ. And I think Belcher is a really solid ILB at this point... It's tough to find a guy that I'd definitely take over him that is available to the Chiefs either through the draft or through free agency. But Burfict is an incredible prospect. I don't know if Romeo Crennel would know what to do with him because he's always mostly just had scrappers at ILB.

OT might be an option if Gaither doesn't stick. There might actually be an opportunity to find a better player than Richardson this year...still kind of doubt it. I like Richardson. He made a lot of mistakes in the pre-season, but has been pretty solid in the regular season (the whole OL has been, actually).
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Old 09-26-2011, 05:11 AM    (permalink
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The only question is what QB are they going to take in the first round, if they fall short in the Suck for Luck sweepstakes.
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Old 09-26-2011, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TonyGfortheTD View Post
The only question is what QB are they going to take in the first round, if they fall short in the Suck for Luck sweepstakes.
None. Anyone beyond Luck or Barkley isn't really an upgrade over Ricky Stanzi.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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None. Anyone beyond Luck or Barkley isn't really an upgrade over Ricky Stanzi.
lol whaatttttttt
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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None. Anyone beyond Luck or Barkley isn't really an upgrade over Ricky Stanzi.
Not sure if you're serious about that one, but I'll let it slide.

I still don't get what the point of winning 4-5 games is. If we win 4-5 games we miss an elite QB prospect.. one that we desperately need.

And no, McDaniels and Mangini are awful head coaches.. even Pioli knows this.
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Old 09-25-2011, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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I'd rather a QB that can bring the team to the promised land more than a Matt Kalil/Vontaze Burfict. I think Luck and Barkley are very much so franchise altering QBs.

Luck
Barkley
Matt Kalil
is my mini big board right now. it can change yes.
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 09-26-2011, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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McDaniels is still the front runner in your mind for our coach? Look at that St. Louis offense.. it's in total shambles right now. He isn't doing them any favors, so sure, bring him here to coach our team.

Jesus christ, you are beyond delusional. I honestly don't understand how someone looks at what we have and says that our defense has been playing well all year (they were ok yesterday) or that we are a team that protects the ball (maybe last year, certainly not this year).. I don't get it. Are you watching games from last year on accident?

This is a 2 win team. We will have a top 3 pick. We will have a new coach and it sure as hell won't be McDaniels. Playing a close game against a struggling Chargers team (Rivers is averaging 2 picks a game, which is unlike him. He'll turn it on, but right now, as a team, they're struggling) and losing to the Bills and Lions doesn't make this somehow a solid team. We're not.
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Old 09-26-2011, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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They're at their best when they are focused on protecting the ball, and they did a really good job of it yesterday. The game against the Chargers was what we expected it to be going into the year. It was a good game for the Chiefs, and they're going to build on it.

The defense has been solid all year and yesterday, but they kind of just laid down in the second half of the first two games. They stepped it up and played 4 quarters instead of 2 as they did in the previous two games. I didn't see anything to be too worried about in the first two games. They hunkered down and stopped one of the best offenses in the NFL yesterday, and there wasn't much gimmick to it...they just played their normal defense. I actually have a bit more confidence in the depth at CB after yesterday. Jalil Brown didn't play much, but fundamentally/technically, he looked a lot better. He has the physical and athletic tools to be a really good corner, so it was nice to see that he's starting to put it together.

You're crazy if you don't think McDaniels & Mangini are the #1 guys on Pioli's list of candidates if Haley doesn't get it together (looks like the Chiefs are getting it together, so this may be a moot talking point). That St. Louis offense will be fine. It's a young offense that started the year against 3 of the elite, veteran defenses in the NFL.

I don't know how you can look at the progress they made in the second half, and the game overall and not think this team is going to start winning some games. They didn't play a perfect game and there were lots of places they could improve with easy adjustments, and they almost came out with a win against one of the best teams in the league on the road.
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