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Old 05-20-2012, 02:56 AM    (permalink
KCStud
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Default Can Matt Cassel take KC far ala Alex Smith in 2011?

IMO KC is the equivalent of the 49ers in the AFC. Really strong overall team with a game manager at QB. Cassel and Smith are so much alike to me, but Smith took a big step last year.

KC ranked 11th overall in defense last year without Eric Berry, so I think KC will be in the top 10 with him and Poe (I don't think he'll light it up, but he won't make us not top 10).

KC has arguably the best 1-2 punch in the NFL at RB with Charles and Hillis. Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin (who showed flashes or awesome potential last year) and Moeaki coming back should help him out. Winston is an elite RT so that'll help too.

I just don't see how a QB can't succeed with that much talent surrounding you. Alex Smith benefited from that talent and the coaching.

I guess my question is..do you guys think Matt Cassel could do the same thing Alex Smith did and get KC in the playoffs and win them a game or two this year?
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Old 05-20-2012, 05:36 AM    (permalink
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The 49ers had a dominating defense last season. That is the main reason they were in the playoffs. That combined with an average to decent run game. Alex Smith had some moments of greatness, but during the majority of the duration of games, he wasn't spectacular. But really, it was the defense and turnovers.

As for the Chiefs, I don't watch them that closely, but didn't Eric Berry suffer a torn ACL? There is no guarantee that he comes back to full form in his first year back from recovery. Poe is a rookie and an unknown factor at this point. I'm guessing he helps the Chiefs though.

And I disagree about Jamal Charles (also coming back from an ACL injury) and Peyton Hillis (also coming back from injury) making arguably the best 1-2 punch in the NFL. Hillis didn't play well at all last season and who knows how Charles will fare.

And Cassel...well, he had a good season two years ago, but he strikes me as the kind of guy that really needs to have a lot of talent around him to succeed. At least at this point in time. So perhaps Alex and him have that in common, but there is a new head coach in town, and Haley isn't running the offense anymore. Not to mention Denver now has Peyton Manning, and I wouldn't expect the Chargers to slouch as bad as they did last year. The Chiefs schedule looks pretty hard as well.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:29 AM    (permalink
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It's only May and I'm already sick of the Chiefs hype. KC doesn't have three players on defense as good as Justin Smith, Patrick Willis and NaVorro Bowman.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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It's only May and I'm already sick of the Chiefs hype.
What hype?

Pretty much everyone has all ready gave the Div to Peyton Manning.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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With a new coach(a better coach imo) and everyone healthy, Im anxious to see how KC does.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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What hype?

Pretty much everyone has all ready gave the Div to Peyton Manning.
No, you're wrong. They're giving the division to the team that actually WON it last year. That team aka the Denver Broncos, return with all of their key players and now have replaced (in the words of many people in this forum) the worst ever starting qb in the NFL Tim Tebow with 1st ballot HoF Peyton Manning. So no my friend, they're not giving the division to Peyton Manning.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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No, you're wrong. They're giving the division to the team that actually WON it last year. That team aka the Denver Broncos, return with all of their key players and now have replaced (in the words of many people in this forum) the worst ever starting qb in the NFL Tim Tebow with 1st ballot HoF Peyton Manning. So no my friend, they're not giving the division to Peyton Manning.
...I don't even...
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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...I don't even...
I don't get it.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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No, you're wrong. They're giving the division to the team that actually WON it last year. That team aka the Denver Broncos, return with all of their key players and now have replaced (in the words of many people in this forum) the worst ever starting qb in the NFL Tim Tebow with 1st ballot HoF Peyton Manning. So no my friend, they're not giving the division to Peyton Manning.
But TEBOW JUST WINZ GAIMEZZZ YOU NO HAVE TEBOW YOU NO WINZ GAMEZZ
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Old 05-20-2012, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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No, you're wrong. They're giving the division to the team that actually WON it last year. That team aka the Denver Broncos, return with all of their key players and now have replaced (in the words of many people in this forum) the worst ever starting qb in the NFL Tim Tebow with 1st ballot HoF Peyton Manning. So no my friend, they're not giving the division to Peyton Manning.
So, you are saying they would still be the favorites if they didn't have Peyton Manning?

I'm pretty sure everyone would be giving SD the edge (like always) if Denver didn't have Peyton Manning.
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Old 05-20-2012, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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So, you are saying they would still be the favorites if they didn't have Peyton Manning?

I'm pretty sure everyone would be giving SD the edge (like always) if Denver didn't have Peyton Manning.
What he said. The Chiefs went 10-6 and were predicted to finish 3rd in 2011. They were wrong though, cuz we finished 4th! Ha, take that!

Winning a division title doesn't mean you're the favorites to win it the next year.
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Old 05-20-2012, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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So, you are saying they would still be the favorites if they didn't have Peyton Manning?

I'm pretty sure everyone would be giving SD the edge (like always) if Denver didn't have Peyton Manning.

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Winning a division title doesn't mean you're the favorites to win it the next year.
Teams who have the best QB in their division are usually considered favorites. That's why the Chargers have been considered the favorites to win the division for the last 5 or 6 years.
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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What hype?

Pretty much everyone has all ready gave the Div to Peyton Manning.
That annoys me too.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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It's only May and I'm already sick of the Chiefs hype. KC doesn't have three players on defense as good as Justin Smith, Patrick Willis and NaVorro Bowman.
How about Tamba Hali, Brandon Flowers, and Eric Berry?
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:18 AM    (permalink
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I would argue that KC is a better team talent wise and one of the best in the league, if Charles is 90% healthy and Hillis is somewhat productive Cassel should be able to take advantage of plenty of 1 on 1 coverage, plus the defense is pretty much set 5-10 years
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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I would argue that KC is a better team talent wise
Please do.

I see alot of similarities. 49ers had "talent" under Singletary. Put it together is a different story.
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Old 05-20-2012, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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I would argue that KC is a better team talent wise and one of the best in the league, if Charles is 90% healthy and Hillis is somewhat productive Cassel should be able to take advantage of plenty of 1 on 1 coverage, plus the defense is pretty much set 5-10 years
Okay, let's argue.....
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Old 05-25-2012, 02:42 AM    (permalink
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Okay, let's argue.....
Well let's break it down position by position.

QB-SF I'll give it to Smith since he's won playoff games.
RB-KC JC is a top 5 back and Hillis is a good player too.
OT-KC. Staley is just as good as Albert but no Davis isn't as good as Winston. Winston is an elite RT.
G-SF no question
C-SF
TE-SF no question
WR-KC. Bowe is better and more proven than all of the WR's in SF. Moss is past his prime and Bowe is in his prime right now.

DE-SF no question
DT-I'll say push it's close.
OLB-KC Tamba led AFC in sacks 2 years ago then barely lost out to Suggs. He is good for at least 12 a year. Houston will most likely get 10 this year too. He really came on in the 2nd half last year and was arguably the steal of the draft.
ILB-SF. DJ is the best ILB in the AFC (Ray Ray is too old now) and Willis is best in NFL. Bowman makes this SF's edge.
CB-KC Flowers, Routt and a bunch of quality depth.
S-KC Berry is a top 5 S and Lewis is solid himself.
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:56 AM    (permalink
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Well let's break it down position by position.

QB-SF I'll give it to Smith since he's won playoff games.
RB-KC JC is a top 5 back and Hillis is a good player too.
OT-KC. Staley is just as good as Albert but no Davis isn't as good as Winston. Winston is an elite RT.
G-SF no question
C-SF
TE-SF no question
WR-KC. Bowe is better and more proven than all of the WR's in SF. Moss is past his prime and Bowe is in his prime right now.

DE-SF no question
DT-I'll say push it's close.
OLB-KC Tamba led AFC in sacks 2 years ago then barely lost out to Suggs. He is good for at least 12 a year. Houston will most likely get 10 this year too. He really came on in the 2nd half last year and was arguably the steal of the draft.
ILB-SF. DJ is the best ILB in the AFC (Ray Ray is too old now) and Willis is best in NFL. Bowman makes this SF's edge.
CB-KC Flowers, Routt and a bunch of quality depth.
S-KC Berry is a top 5 S and Lewis is solid himself.
So Dwayne Bowe makes Kansas City's receiving corps better than everyone else on the 49ers squad combined? Who else do the Chiefs have as receivers? Breaston? Baldwin? They aren't necessarily better gamebreakers than Moss, Manningham, Crabtree, and Jenkins.

And Kansas City has better outside linebackers? Who other than Tamba Hali is a huge threat? Aldon Smith had more sacks than Hali playing part-time. And Brooks played at a Pro Bowl level last season.

And the 49ers don't have better corners? Rogers was a Pro Bowler last season. One that actually played like it. Tarrell Brown and Chris Culliver also played at a good level, especially Culiver who lined up against top receivers a good amount of the time. No one got smoked nearly all season.

Oh and as good as Eric Berry may be (he's coming back from a torn ACL) it was the Whitner and Goldson show all day last season.

Oh and special teams blows the Chiefs out of the water.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:24 AM    (permalink
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So Dwayne Bowe makes Kansas City's receiving corps better than everyone else on the 49ers squad combined? Who else do the Chiefs have as receivers? Breaston? Baldwin? They aren't necessarily better gamebreakers than Moss, Manningham, Crabtree, and Jenkins.

And Kansas City has better outside linebackers? Who other than Tamba Hali is a huge threat? Aldon Smith had more sacks than Hali playing part-time. And Brooks played at a Pro Bowl level last season.

And the 49ers don't have better corners? Rogers was a Pro Bowler last season. One that actually played like it. Tarrell Brown and Chris Culliver also played at a good level, especially Culiver who lined up against top receivers a good amount of the time. No one got smoked nearly all season.

Oh and as good as Eric Berry may be (he's coming back from a torn ACL) it was the Whitner and Goldson show all day last season.

Oh and special teams blows the Chiefs out of the water.
The Chiefs WRs are better than the 49ers. Everything besides Bowe and Moss is a complete wash to me. After that it is only as close as Moss can make it to Bowe. If he's a complete disaster then it's really not that close at all. If Moss can be that #1 guy then it would be close, but I'd still take the 27 year old who I know what I'll get with over a 35 year old guy who could shut it down at any moment.

Also Ahmad Brooks wasn't playing at a Pro-Bowl level. He's a nice player .. could even go as far as say he is a very nice player, but he was not anywhere close to playing at a Pro-Bowl level last year. That said .. I think the OLBers are closer than the WRs. Right now I'd go:

Tamba Hali
Aldon Smith
Ahmad Brooks
Justin Houston

And sure a Chief fan could say that Houston will be better than Brooks after this year, but a Niner fan could also say that Aldon will be better than Tamba after this year. So it's really a wash to me.
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Old 05-25-2012, 07:11 AM    (permalink
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Well let's break it down position by position.

QB-SF I'll give it to Smith since he's won playoff games.
RB-KC JC is a top 5 back and Hillis is a good player too.
OT-KC. Staley is just as good as Albert but no Davis isn't as good as Winston. Winston is an elite RT.
G-SF no question
C-SF
TE-SF no question
WR-KC. Bowe is better and more proven than all of the WR's in SF. Moss is past his prime and Bowe is in his prime right now.

DE-SF no question
DT-I'll say push it's close.
OLB-KC Tamba led AFC in sacks 2 years ago then barely lost out to Suggs. He is good for at least 12 a year. Houston will most likely get 10 this year too. He really came on in the 2nd half last year and was arguably the steal of the draft.
ILB-SF. DJ is the best ILB in the AFC (Ray Ray is too old now) and Willis is best in NFL. Bowman makes this SF's edge.
CB-KC Flowers, Routt and a bunch of quality depth.
S-KC Berry is a top 5 S and Lewis is solid himself.
WR - From top to bottom, I think the Niner have the edge. No doubt Bowe is the best of the bunch but our 2nd and 3rd WRs will be Crabs and MM. To me, that is better than your 2nd and 3rd WR. And I really like Baldwin for the record. Bowe may be better than Moss but our #2 and #3 gives us a slight edge, if not makes it even.

OLB - I would say Hali and All-Done are about even. If he is good for at least 12 I would argue the same for Smith as at starter. I dont see how you could give the edge at LOLB to a Houston when he and Brooks had very similar numbers. Houston had 5 more tackles, Brooks had 1.5 more sacks. Haralson as a third rotational guy should give us the edge but I'll call it a wash.

CB - If you still had Carr, I'd surely give you the edge. Routt? Not even. Tarell Brown in his first year as a starter in Fangio scheme put up impressive numbers. Pro Bowl consideration numbers. I would expect his play to improve with another year in the scheme. And I would argue Cully is better than Arenas as the nickelback. I'll call Rogers and Flowers a wash.

S - If Berry is considsred top 5, so should Goldson. If were going by on field production, what Goldson did in 14 games was last year was impressive. No doubt about Berry's ability but Goldson gets overlooked. He's had two very good years sandwiched between a very medicore 2010 season when he played hurt most of the year and lost some of his mobility because of it. Its closer than most ppl think. Lewis and Whitner are a wash. I think Whitner is severly underated. His numbers dont really do justice to his impact on our defense. He's the main reason both Goldson and Rogers thrived last year on the back end. Goldson could finally go out and ball-hawk instead of trying to cover for the lack range guys like Taylor Mays, Michael Lewis, and Reggie Smith lacked at SS. And Whitner's ability to cover the deep half made it so that Rogers could be aggressive on the underneath routes and make plays on the ball.

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Old 05-25-2012, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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Well let's break it down position by position.

QB-SF I'll give it to Smith since he's won playoff games.
RB-KC JC is a top 5 back and Hillis is a good player too.
OT-KC. Staley is just as good as Albert but no Davis isn't as good as Winston. Winston is an elite RT.
G-SF no question
C-SF
TE-SF no question
WR-KC. Bowe is better and more proven than all of the WR's in SF. Moss is past his prime and Bowe is in his prime right now.

DE-SF no question
DT-I'll say push it's close.
OLB-KC Tamba led AFC in sacks 2 years ago then barely lost out to Suggs. He is good for at least 12 a year. Houston will most likely get 10 this year too. He really came on in the 2nd half last year and was arguably the steal of the draft.
ILB-SF. DJ is the best ILB in the AFC (Ray Ray is too old now) and Willis is best in NFL. Bowman makes this SF's edge.
CB-KC Flowers, Routt and a bunch of quality depth.
S-KC Berry is a top 5 S and Lewis is solid himself.
When healthy, I think that Jamaal Charles is the most electrifying back in football. That being said, he has yet to prove he has returned to his old self after his injury. I am skeptical that he will be back to his old form this season, at least early on. Guys are recovering faster and faster from knee injuries, but they rarely get back the first season. Hillis hasn't done anything in over a year.

Gore is as steady as they come, Kendall Hunter is a nice complement, and they added Brandon Jacobs, who could easily add half a dozen scores. And they drafted LaMichael James, who could add another dimension to their passing game. So I think the 49ers have a strong advantage in this area going into the season.

As far as secondaries go, Kansas City allowed less passing yards but gave up more passing TD's, so I think it's a wash.

One more thing to consider is that San Francisco is returning 11 starters on defense, which is almost unheard of in today's game.

Other than those two areas I think your analysis is pretty accurate.

FWIW, I hate the 49ers, and before all the devastating injuries KC was one of my favorite teams to watch in the last couple of years. But I still believe in giving respect where it is due.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:04 AM    (permalink
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DT-I'll say push it's close.
Lol. No. SF is significantly better on D.
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Old 05-26-2012, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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Lol. No. SF is significantly better on D.
It says DT, not D. There is a letter after the D there.

And I'm not arguing coaching, but after RAC took over the Chiefs went 2-1, with one of those victories coming against the previously undefeated Packers and the only loss being in overtime because of two blocked FGs.

I'm not taking anything away from Harbaugh, just saying that the coaching situation has been improved SIGNIFICANTLY in KC.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:24 AM    (permalink
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Please, i started the Chiefs Bandwagon months ago.
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