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Old 07-03-2012, 04:47 AM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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Default Patrick Peterson 2011 - 5th best individual season ever?

I was browsing pro-football-reference.com, because I enjoy history, and came across what I found to be a startling fact. There, atop the all-time rankings for single-season AV (approximate value) scores, was Patrick Peterson - at least 3 years younger than anyone else in the top 50, and ranked above 2007 Tom Brady, 2011 Aaron Rodgers (Yes - Peterson led the league ranking instead) 2009 Derrelle Revis, and 2000 Ray Lewis, to name some recent examples whose names were also near the top of this list of all-time great individual seasons.

This was extremely surprising to me, not because I thought he had something other than a terrific rookie season, but PFR has it literally ranked as a Hall of Fame-level effort, and one of the best individual single-season performances in the history of the league. I am awfully curious to see what a discussion of this would look like, because he certainly did utterly dominate his matchups. We haven't seen a punt returner like that since Devin Hester, and he was at least as productive, if not as good, as Devin Hester ever was, in addition to being a full-time defensive player.

I'd really like to hear some educated Cardinals fans on the matter, or at least people who saw a number of Cardinals games. This will be my last post for awhile, as I'm leaving for the wilderness for the rest of the summer to work. So I won't be participating in the conversation, should one arise. Just thought it was a pretty interesting thing to stumble across. I expect many will deride the rating system, but when you see all the other names at the top, many of them with a HOF indication next to their name, you kind of have to decide whether you want to think of Peterson's season as an anomaly of the formula or whether that's simply your own perspective as a fan and critic.

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Old 07-03-2012, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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I didn't watch every game PP played in, maybe 2 or 3, but somehow I don't think his rookie season passed the eye test as one of the best ever regardless of position.

There have been a lot of great rookie d-backs in the NFL.
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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I just dont see it. He was a monster in the return game but was a medicore CB. And before somebody chimes in with the 'well he playing like one of the best CBs in the league the last half of the season', he allowed Dez Bryant and Crabtree to put up solid games against him in December. He did shut down AJ Green the next to the last game of the year but his performance as a defender wasn't nearly as impressive as his performance in the return game. And to rank it as the best ever? Not buying it.
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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I just dont see it. He was a monster in the return game but was a medicore CB. And before somebody chimes in with the 'well he playing like one of the best CBs in the league the last half of the season', he allowed Dez Bryant and Crabtree to put up solid games against him in December. He did shut down AJ Green the next to the last game of the year but his performance as a defender wasn't nearly as impressive as his performance in the return game. And to rank it as the best ever? Not buying it.
Yeah there really wasn't much of a buzz about his performance last season outside of the return game. Especially early on in the year.
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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He showed me some very good CB skills so I think the talk of him being a Safety or moving to Safety should all but stop. Dez made some plays against him but for the most part he did a great job vs him. It was 1 of the better matchups I had seen in a long time just because it was two young players who are going to be really good.


He showed that he has some good hip swivel, anticipation, he's very physical, though he's at his strength by playing press man IMO more so then off man or zone but that's probably just nit picking. I certainly don't think he had a HOF type of season, but I don't know.


I don't need a bunch of statistics plugged into a system to make me believe he had a better season then 07 Brady or 11 Rodgers. That's why nobody respects a large number of these sites with their stats and formulas.
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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I think this is a very simple case of stats not really being a good representation of true football.
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand the formula for AV.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand the formula for AV.
Here you go. If you don't fully understand the formula then ur just dum.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../?page_id=8061


And if anyone here says a bad word about *insert sport*-reference, well, you just flat out suck or something worse!
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TACKLE View Post
Here you go. If you don't fully understand the formula then ur just dum.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../?page_id=8061


And if anyone here says a bad word about *insert sport*-reference, well, you just flat out suck.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:04 PM    (permalink
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Hey now, hey now...let's not knock PFR. I don't trust any of their "advanced" work and I rarely read their blog, but I remember getting this beast when I was a kid. PFR has more information, it's free, and it doesn't take up half the damned book shelf.

Quote:
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Here you go. If you don't fully understand the formula then ur just dum.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../?page_id=8061


And if anyone here says a bad word about *insert sport*-reference, well, you just flat out suck or something worse!
They need to have a way for me to use an SQL query to search their database.

Also, their "advanced statistics" (including AV) lack rigour.


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Old 07-03-2012, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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Jacob Lacey, 2011
The 10th Greatest Season In NFL History

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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 07-03-2012, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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They need to have a way for me to use an SQL query to search their database.
Ughhh, SQL queries. That is about 75% of my job.

Concerning Jacob Lacey. A guy with one INT on the league's 25th ranked defense being ranked as the 10th best season of all time? Someone needs to fix their formula.
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:45 AM    (permalink
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Ughhh, SQL queries. That is about 75% of my job.

Concerning Jacob Lacey. A guy with one INT on the league's 25th ranked defense being ranked as the 10th best season of all time? Someone needs to fix their formula.
Isn't that the Nnamdi Asomugha story?
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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Oh god do not let fenikz see this thread!
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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Between blocked FG/punts, punt returns and being a shutdown CB why not

BTW without the returns it's still a top 50 season ever according to that system
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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being a shutdown CB
Sorry but...

Lol.
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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Was Tebow's 2011 season top 5 as well?

LMAO.
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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http://www.pro-football-reference.co...gle_season.htm

for those too lazy to look for it
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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Jacob Lacey, Colts, tied for 10th best year all-time in 2011.



I've seen enough.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Originally Posted by XxXdragonXxX View Post
Jacob Lacey, Colts, tied for 10th best year all-time in 2011.



I've seen enough.
/thread lol
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:20 PM    (permalink
fenikz
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fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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ya I saw that too lol
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:40 PM    (permalink
fenikz
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fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.fenikz is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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you could of done a /thread after the 1st mention of PFR
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:46 PM    (permalink
Borat
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Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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you could of done a /thread after the 1st mention of PFR
Well, I gave the thread a chance, but Jacob Lacey shat all over it.
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