Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > 2014 NFL Draft Forum

2014 NFL Draft Forum Discuss the 2014 NFL Draft

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-29-2013, 09:18 AM    (permalink
princefielder28
Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 26,942
Reputation: 1729895
princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default Defensive Back Rankings (Top 15 CBs/Safeties)

I have started to compile my rankings and instead of throwing out all the positions at once I figured there might be more conversation generated by breaking the positions apart by similarities.

Cornerbacks

1. Dee Milliner : ALABAMA
2. Jordan Poyer : OREGON STATE
3. Desmond Trufant : WASHINGTON
4. Will Davis : UTAH STATE
5. Logan Ryan : RUTGERS
6. Jamar Taylor : BOISE STATE
7. Xavier Rhodes : FLORIDA STATE
8. Johnthan Banks : MISSISSIPPI STATE
9. Leon McFadden : SAN DIEGO STATE
10. Robert Alford : SOUTHEASTERN LOUISIANA
11. Blidi Wreh-Wilson : UCONN
12. BW Webb : WILLIAM & MARY
13. Darius Slay : MISSISSIPPI STATE
14. David Amerson : NORTH CAROLINA STATE
15. Terry Hawthorne : ILLINOIS

Analysis: Milliner is the king of the class at corner and is the latest Saban defensive backs to enter the NFL. Overall a pretty deep class with each of these 15 listed having the potential to be starters within a couple years of being in the league. Poyer, Trufant and Davis all carry first round grades with me and Trufant may be the only one of the bunch that actually goes in the first 32 picks. Banks has been highly touted throughout the season, but I simply am not wowed enough when I've watched Mississippi State this past season and teammate Darius Slay isn't far behind him in my evaluations. Banks' best fit very well may be safety in the NFL. David Amerson got exposed big time this season, but if he's still around in the 3rd round, his size for a defensive back is worth gambling on and trying to develop.

Safeties

1. Kenny Vaccaro : TEXAS
2. Jonathan Cyprien : FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL
3. Phillip Thomas : FRESNO STATE
4. Duke Williams : NEVADA
5. Eric Reid : LOUISIANA STATE
6. Bacarri Rambo : GEORGIA
7. DJ Swearinger : SOUTH CAROLINA
8. Matt Elam : FLORIDA
9. Shawn Williams : GEORGIA
10. Tony Jefferson : OKLAHOMA
11. JJ Wilcox : GEORGIA SOUTHERN
12. TJ McDonald : USC
13. Cooper Taylor : RICHMOND
14. Shamarko Thomas : SYRACUSE
15. Earl Wolff : NORTH CAROLINA STATE

Analysis: Much like the crop of cornerbacks, the safety position is very deep for the upcoming draft. When considering the top seven guys (Vaccaro, Cyprien, Thomas, Williams, Reid, Rambo and Swearinger) they could easily be shuffled around depending on what qualities one looks for in their safeties. Vaccaro is the most complete of the bunch, but there are lapses in his play at times during this season so he's not without flaws. After Barron went high last year, it wouldn't surprise me if he goes Top 10 like some scouts/journalists are suggesting. Cyprien impressed me big time during the Senior Bowl week and he is everything a defensive coordinator wants in a safety with his physicality and ability to drop back in coverage. Some project Eric Reid as a free safety but I see more of a strong safety as a guy who needs to operate closer to the line. Matt Elam has the heart of a lion but his size concerns me and his ability to hold up long term in the league. Cooper Taylor was the star of Shrine week and after the way Seattle has composed their secondary, a guy with his size and measurables will be highly sought after in this copycat league.

Let's open up the discussion on this year's defensive backs...I'm always open to criticism, defending my rankings, and seeing how others' rankings match up to mine
__________________


Follow me on Twitter! http://twitter.com/#!/aMo_Captain
princefielder28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 09:29 AM    (permalink
CrossOfDeath
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 54
Reputation: 17589
CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I don't see what scouts see in this Will Davis kid. I watched him lose several battles this season and then look very average to bad at the senior bowl where more than half of the corners out played him.
CrossOfDeath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 09:30 AM    (permalink
bucfan12
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,440
Reputation: 122376
bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bucfan12 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Man you guys are really not educated on Xavier Rhodes are you? He's #2 on y board with the ceiling as high as an elite shutdown cb.
bucfan12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 09:40 AM    (permalink
detroit4life
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: detroit
Posts: 3,924
Reputation: 34431
detroit4life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.detroit4life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.detroit4life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.detroit4life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.detroit4life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.detroit4life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.detroit4life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.detroit4life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.detroit4life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.detroit4life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.detroit4life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
Man you guys are really not educated on Xavier Rhodes are you? He's #2 on y board with the ceiling as high as an elite shutdown cb.
I think Rhodes will make or break his draft with his 40 time. If he runs 4.55 or under he should be a first round pick IMO.

I personally hope he falls to the lions 2nd round
__________________
detroit4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 11:05 AM    (permalink
SuperPacker
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: awkward
Posts: 11,040
Reputation: 2237213
SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
Man you guys are really not educated on Xavier Rhodes are you? He's #2 on y board with the ceiling as high as an elite shutdown cb.
Just because someone doesn't like a player you like, it doesn't mean they are 'really not educated' on that player.
__________________



RIP themaninblack
SuperPacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 09:37 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dodge City
Posts: 7,479
Reputation: 1199061
FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.FUNBUNCHER is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Could someone break down Kenny Vaccaro for me please?? I haven't watched much UT football this past season and don't know why he's rated so highly.

Is he better overall than Earl Thomas?
__________________
FUNBUNCHER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 09:49 AM    (permalink
CrossOfDeath
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 54
Reputation: 17589
CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CrossOfDeath is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Could someone break down Kenny Vaccaro for me please?? I haven't watched much UT football this past season and don't know why he's rated so highly.

Is he better overall than Earl Thomas?
No, but Earl Thomas was part of an extremely stacked draft class and Kenny Vaccaro is part of the weakest draft class since 2005.

Kenny Vaccaro is great in the box against the run. He can play centerfielder at a high level as well as great in press man coverage. He can bring the lumber with the best of them. His ball skills are a little lacking, but other than that he has every quality you'd look for in a saftey. He is a better prospect than both Barron and Smith who went 1st round last year. A lot of people will lead you to believe he is a horrible open field tackler which is simply not true. Every say him on national TV against Oklahoma State when he had a horrible whiff on a long TD run and now every says he is terrible in the open field. Again, it is simply not true every just saw one of his lowest moments of his career.
CrossOfDeath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 09:56 AM    (permalink
princefielder28
Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 26,942
Reputation: 1729895
princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossOfDeath View Post
I don't see what scouts see in this Will Davis kid. I watched him lose several battles this season and then look very average to bad at the senior bowl where more than half of the corners out played him.
I had the privilege of watching Will Davis in person when Utah State outplayed Wisconsin early in the season and Davis completely shut down Jared Abbrederis and the Badgers' passing attack. A physical man-to-man corner is a rare find and Davis possesses the skills to be such a player in the NFL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
Man you guys are really not educated on Xavier Rhodes are you? He's #2 on y board with the ceiling as high as an elite shutdown cb.
Rhodes possesses the man-to-man skill set like I described with Davis, but I worry about two things with his game: straight line speed with the #1 receivers and their elite speed in the present-day league and his schematic versatility, don't see much in terms of being able to be a zone corner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Could someone break down Kenny Vaccaro for me please?? I haven't watched much UT football this past season and don't know why he's rated so highly.

Is he better overall than Earl Thomas?
Vaccaro is not a better prospect than Earl Thomas, for starters. Vaccaro has terrific range for a safety and gives coordinators flexibility with his willingness to be physical and his ability to cover, which is almost a must in today's NFL.
__________________


Follow me on Twitter! http://twitter.com/#!/aMo_Captain
princefielder28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 11:09 AM    (permalink
Babylon
Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,478
Reputation: 3105012
Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Babylon is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

We've talked Cooper Taylor out of Richmond so it's nice to see him in there. At one time he was a 4.4 guy, of course he was probably 20 lbs lighter then. Pending the combine times he might be up in that 2nd or 3rd round range when draft day gets here. I'd rather have him in the 3rd than most of these guys in the first or second.

My personal preference is Earl Thomas over Kenny Vaccaro, more range and better instincts, of course i may be a little biased there.
Babylon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 11:13 AM    (permalink
iowatreat54
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Americanzi
Posts: 15,106
Reputation: 1346319
iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Thank you for not including Johnny Adams from MSU. He is awful.

Also, Hawthorne has the size and talent to be a really good corner, but he can never stay healthy and seems to never make big plays or truly shut down anyone with consistency. It will be interesting to see how he does with actual coaching.
__________________


"You don't need thumbs. My best friend is my brother's dog, he doesn't have any thumbs, he's doin fine."
-Pat Angerer on breaking his thumb.

DJK = Mr. Fun-Haver
Kirk Ferentz = Coach Killjoy
iowatreat54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 08:59 PM    (permalink
bigbenn
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 686
Reputation: 3984
bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iowatreat54 View Post
Thank you for not including Johnny Adams from MSU. He is awful.

Also, Hawthorne has the size and talent to be a really good corner, but he can never stay healthy and seems to never make big plays or truly shut down anyone with consistency. It will be interesting to see how he does with actual coaching.
The statement on Hawthorne tends to make me think you haven't watched many Illini games...because you couldn't be more wrong. BTW he is the best QB in the class (And Buchanan is the best DE with Carradine).
bigbenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 11:41 AM    (permalink
iowatreat54
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Americanzi
Posts: 15,106
Reputation: 1346319
iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbenn View Post
The statement on Hawthorne tends to make me think you haven't watched many Illini games...because you couldn't be more wrong. BTW he is the best QB in the class (And Buchanan is the best DE with Carradine).
Hey, thaKid! I miss the entertainment of your posts on scout, so I'm glad you've made your way back here. Hopefully you'll still be here once the season starts in the fall.

As for Hawthorne/Illinois go, I've watched probably all but 3-4 games in the last 3 years. Like I said, Hawthorne has the build and shown flashes of talent to be a really good corner, but he has never played with consistency or been on the field long enough to prove it. And while he has a few highlight type plays, he really hasn't shown any consistent game changing ability and isn't really thought of as a lock-down corner. I know you are going to argue that point, but he was beat by top WRs more than he shut them down in his career.

He might have a chance to sneak in round 1 because of his physical attributes come combine time, but then again you also were touting him as a #1 overall pick back in the fall so...
__________________


"You don't need thumbs. My best friend is my brother's dog, he doesn't have any thumbs, he's doin fine."
-Pat Angerer on breaking his thumb.

DJK = Mr. Fun-Haver
Kirk Ferentz = Coach Killjoy
iowatreat54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 03:01 PM    (permalink
bigbenn
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 686
Reputation: 3984
bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.bigbenn is so money.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iowatreat54 View Post
Hey, thaKid! I miss the entertainment of your posts on scout, so I'm glad you've made your way back here. Hopefully you'll still be here once the season starts in the fall.

As for Hawthorne/Illinois go, I've watched probably all but 3-4 games in the last 3 years. Like I said, Hawthorne has the build and shown flashes of talent to be a really good corner, but he has never played with consistency or been on the field long enough to prove it. And while he has a few highlight type plays, he really hasn't shown any consistent game changing ability and isn't really thought of as a lock-down corner. I know you are going to argue that point, but he was beat by top WRs more than he shut them down in his career.

He might have a chance to sneak in round 1 because of his physical attributes come combine time, but then again you also were touting him as a #1 overall pick back in the fall so...

Well maybe you have but I'm not sure we watch the same games. Hawthorne locks down his man/side of the field consistently. I would bet more than in CB not only in this draft, but a few drafts. He doesn't get to flash his tremendous playmaking ability as much because he's rarely targeted. He still manages to make a few game altering and/or a few potentially game altering plays a game, all within the scheme of the defense he's playing. As for #1, I'm not sure he goes there, but that's not because of talent. He has always been underrated dating back to HS, but he always been a playmaker of the highest level. IMO there wasn't a player better then, and there isn't a player better now.


Also curious who he has been beaten by (As well as the "not been on the field long enough comment"). Literally the ONLY guy who had consistent success manned against Hawthorne other than his freshman year (Where he was still making plays/locking guys down despite it being his first year playing the position), was Quinton Patton and I made my thoughts known on him (Plus I believe a couple of those plays were blown coverages). The list he has locked down? Russell Wilson/Nick Toon, Griffin III/Kendall Wright, Cousins/Cunningham, Osweiller/Robinson, etc. etc. Like I was saying when Corey Liuget, etc. came out, sooner or later people are going to be forced to stop underrating Illini players.

Last edited by bigbenn : 02-03-2013 at 03:20 PM.
bigbenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 03:27 PM    (permalink
marks01234
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,349
Reputation: 21252
marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.marks01234 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I think your going to see a run of bigger corners in this years draft. I see that really helping Banks, Amerson and Rhodes. All three guys are good athletes who can play the run and pass.
marks01234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 03:38 PM    (permalink
Ozzy
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,157
Reputation: 266367
Ozzy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ozzy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ozzy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ozzy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ozzy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ozzy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ozzy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ozzy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ozzy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ozzy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ozzy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Kenny Vaccaro is a hard one to rank in this class. He has been around for awhile, been hyped up forever but never really has. What was is last years draft Markelle Martin, preseason everyone had him 1st round potential, such a stud safety and then he drops like a rock in the draft? Not sure that will happen with Vaccaro but it will happen to one of the safeties in this draft.


And to me safety is by far the hardest position to pick good players, constantly you see fine college players do almost nothing in the NFL at that position.


Brought this list up last season and seems relevant in this discussion. Just a few I thought of when looking back at safeties I had highly ranked or rated and in the NFL they have not accomplished must or did not even make it at all. With Kenny Vaccaro I do not think he is awful, very good hitter, really impressive hitter half the time but his coverage is a little overrated and sadly there are more than a few big hitting safeties in college that do not turn out in the NFL.

Vaccaro should be ok though, decent player but not sure he is worth a top 15 selection which I heard a few people talk of. I do not put him on the level of some of the best safeties to ever come out in the draft at all. Good talent but we will see how he works out, a lot of mixed opinions on him. But I think if he is so good, why has Texas been so bad on defense for the past few seasons? His impact does have little impact on the end result of the game which is not good, and seems his best plays are against the worst competition and not in the big games. Will see what happens with him and the other safeties in this draft.


Tramain Thomas- before he came out he was awesome on Arkansas his senior season, good coverage safety but went undrafted.

Deunta Williams- I assume it is an injury issue, but the kid was an absolute stud on UNC

Tejay Johnson- Good fast safety, do not believe he has a look as a free agent even.

DeAndre McDaniel- Undrafted, signed with Saints for a chance, crazy because year before he was lights out and is one of the more aggressive and consistent playmaking safeties in the country.

Justin Woodall- Few years ago, fine big safety for Bama, undrafted and never given a chance to play.

Taylor Mays- Still in the league but is not getting the time he should be getting, though some called him out even in college as a possible bust, still has a chance though.

Demetrice Morley- Legal issues kept him out probably, but still he could play and was very very talented.

Derek Pegues- Quick and fast safety, good return guy, made big plays, never given a chance as a free agent.

Michael Hamlin- Still around the league but is not playing much, was really elite and very good in college, not the same in the NFL.

Otis Wiley- Interception machine in his senior year, very productive, big kid, made plays, was undrafted and got a shot but not sure he is even around anymore.

Dominic Jones- Big time prospect, legal issues kept him out and being kicked off the team. Still a fast player and a great tackler, never made it.

Emanuel Cook- Still in the league but not doing so well, fine tackler in college but must have some character or work ethic issues.

Jamie Silva- Actually went undrafted, but has been kind of a productive pro but was odd he went undrafted.

Kelin Johnson- On rosters but does not play, was a very good safety with a lot of potential and size.

Jamar Adams- Bounces around, big kid but never really sticking on any roster.

Pig Brown- Good hitter, tough guy, undrafted I believe.

Eric Brock- Good player, undrafted but made a roster and is hanging around the league, not playing much.

Nehemiah Warrick- Good athlete, decent prospect, bounces around the league but no real playing time.

Tom Zibikowski- Is productive in the league some what, on the Ravens, but is not the star he showed in college.

Dajuan Morgan- Still in the league but has never broken out, close to the best safety in college at NC State but never has had that success in the league.

Reggie Smith- Really has not done much, still on the 49ers I believe, but never the star he was in college at all.

Simeon Castille- Great tackler on Alabama, good player, played with great effort, but bounces around the league and plays little.

Kevin Mitchell- Big time safety on Illinois, undrafted and never really got a shot I believe, surprise because he was a fine safety.

Brandon Everage- Good coverage guy, a lot of hype in college but undrafted I believe.

Ernest Shazor- Really big surprise, super prospect, huge kid, hit hard but went undrafted then bounced around the league for a really short time and done.

Jamaal Brimmer- Extremely productive in college, undrafted and never made the league despite showing a lot of talent, but did have an awful 40 time.

Junior Rosegreen- Good athlete, tough, plays aggressive, never stuck around the league, I was surprised.

Jaxson Appel- Loved his tackling ability on A&M, was in the league for a little I feel but never got real playing time.

Matt Grootegoed- Star in college, never stuck on a roster or played much at all in the NFL.

Darnell Bing- Star safety prospect, huge kid, but was moved to linebacker I believe, never really stuck on a roster or played much real time.

Guss Scott- Good tackler, small but productive and never really stuck round the league that long.

Dakarai Pearson- Good athlete, good in deep coverage, never got a chance in the league for long I believe.

Greg Blue- Huge hitting, like big time hitter in college, but got drafted and on a roster but was soon let go and never stuck on anywhere else for long, was a surprise.

Dwayne Slay- Big kid, good hitter, undrafted and got signed later but did not stick around long.

Jamaal Fudge- Really liked him, he actually went undrafted but then got a shot on a team and did well but did not stick around for more than a few seasons.

Ko Simpson- Absolute star in college, really hyped up and a very good athlete, got on a roster and was drafted but never turned out at all.

Gary Berry- Super star on Ohio State, very good player and very productive, but never really played well in the league, was drafted but did not stick around long.

Robert Carswell- Barely got drafted, was a star on Clemson but did not stick around in the NFL long, but did have an awful 40.
__________________
Ozzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 11:33 AM    (permalink
iowatreat54
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Americanzi
Posts: 15,106
Reputation: 1346319
iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.iowatreat54 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbenn View Post
Well maybe you have but I'm not sure we watch the same games. Hawthorne locks down his man/side of the field consistently. I would bet more than in CB not only in this draft, but a few drafts. He doesn't get to flash his tremendous playmaking ability as much because he's rarely targeted. He still manages to make a few game altering and/or a few potentially game altering plays a game, all within the scheme of the defense he's playing. As for #1, I'm not sure he goes there, but that's not because of talent. He has always been underrated dating back to HS, but he always been a playmaker of the highest level. IMO there wasn't a player better then, and there isn't a player better now.


Also curious who he has been beaten by (As well as the "not been on the field long enough comment"). Literally the ONLY guy who had consistent success manned against Hawthorne other than his freshman year (Where he was still making plays/locking guys down despite it being his first year playing the position), was Quinton Patton and I made my thoughts known on him (Plus I believe a couple of those plays were blown coverages). The list he has locked down? Russell Wilson/Nick Toon, Griffin III/Kendall Wright, Cousins/Cunningham, Osweiller/Robinson, etc. etc. Like I was saying when Corey Liuget, etc. came out, sooner or later people are going to be forced to stop underrating Illini players.
Oh boy, let's take this one point at a time.

First, let's look at the list he locked down...

Wilson/Toon (2011) - 6 receptions, 67 yards, no TDs - solid effort, hardly locked down.
RGIII/Wright (2010) - 12 receptions, 127 yards, 1 TD - ya, no lock down.
Cousins/Cunningham (2010) - 3 receptions, 83 yards, 1 TD - nope.
Osweiller/Robinson (2011) - 8 receptions, 88 yards, 1 TD - again, solid but not "locked down".

So some decent efforts there, but hardly locking down anyone. And in each of those games, the WR listed is the #1 WR so Hawthorne should have been covering him at least 80% of the time. In addition to that, let's look at his performance against some other "top" WRs:

Carder/White (WMU - 2011) - 14 receptions, 132 yards, 1 TD
Persa/Ebert (NW - 2011) - 5 receptions, 76 yards, 3 TD
Denard/Roundtree (Mich - 2010) - 9 receptions, 246 yards, 2 TD
OR
Denard/Hemingway (Mich - 2010) - 6 receptions, 104 yards, 2 TD

Since those were his soph and junior years, let's look at really the only 3 top-tier WRs he faced his Senior year:

Patton (LaTech) - 6 receptions, 164 yards, 2 TD
Robinson (PSU) - 3 receptions, 35 yards
Abbrederis (Wisc) - 7 receptions, 117 yards, 1 TD

So he did a great job on Robinson, the other 2 not so much. And in the NFL, he will face guys like Patton and Abbrederis on a regular basis, albeit with better help. But I highly doubt the majority of these games were due to blown coverages.

So again, where are these top WRs he's "locked down" on a regular basis?

Second, do you honestly think the Hawthorne can be the best Safety in the NFL after having a career as the best CB in the NFL, at this point in time? Really? Coming from the guy who also said Martez Wilson was a first rounder and is better than Von Miller? Or that Rejus Benn is going to be one of the best WRs in the NFL?
__________________


"You don't need thumbs. My best friend is my brother's dog, he doesn't have any thumbs, he's doin fine."
-Pat Angerer on breaking his thumb.

DJK = Mr. Fun-Haver
Kirk Ferentz = Coach Killjoy
iowatreat54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 09:10 PM    (permalink
P-L
Head Moderator
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South Florida
Posts: 30,581
Reputation: 1108093
P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.P-L is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iowatreat54 View Post
Thank you for not including Johnny Adams from MSU. He is awful.
I lol'd when some places had him as one of the top senior cornerbacks, prior to the season.
P-L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,141
Reputation: 287181
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
I have started to compile my rankings and instead of throwing out all the positions at once I figured there might be more conversation generated by breaking the positions apart by similarities.

Cornerbacks

1. Dee Milliner : ALABAMA
2. Jordan Poyer : OREGON STATE
3. Desmond Trufant : WASHINGTON
4. Will Davis : UTAH STATE
5. Logan Ryan : RUTGERS
6. Jamar Taylor : BOISE STATE
7. Xavier Rhodes : FLORIDA STATE
8. Johnthan Banks : MISSISSIPPI STATE
9. Leon McFadden : SAN DIEGO STATE
10. Robert Alford : SOUTHEASTERN LOUISIANA
11. Blidi Wreh-Wilson : UCONN
12. BW Webb : WILLIAM & MARY
13. Darius Slay : MISSISSIPPI STATE
14. David Amerson : NORTH CAROLINA STATE
15. Terry Hawthorne : ILLINOIS

Decent list however, I think you are over analyzing Banks and Rhodes, they are still in the mix as 1st rounders while Davis and Talyor simply aren't. I also wouldn't shocked if BW Webb doesn't higher on draft day. Trufant is definitely on the rise and could eventually pass Poyer as the #2 CB in the draft.

Analysis: Milliner is the king of the class at corner and is the latest Saban defensive backs to enter the NFL. Overall a pretty deep class with each of these 15 listed having the potential to be starters within a couple years of being in the league. Poyer, Trufant and Davis all carry first round grades with me and Trufant may be the only one of the bunch that actually goes in the first 32 picks. Banks has been highly touted throughout the season, but I simply am not wowed enough when I've watched Mississippi State this past season and teammate Darius Slay isn't far behind him in my evaluations. Banks' best fit very well may be safety in the NFL. David Amerson got exposed big time this season, but if he's still around in the 3rd round, his size for a defensive back is worth gambling on and trying to develop.

Safeties

1. Kenny Vaccaro : TEXAS
2. Jonathan Cyprien : FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL
3. Phillip Thomas : FRESNO STATE
4. Duke Williams : NEVADA
5. Eric Reid : LOUISIANA STATE
6. Bacarri Rambo : GEORGIA
7. DJ Swearinger : SOUTH CAROLINA
8. Matt Elam : FLORIDA
9. Shawn Williams : GEORGIA
10. Tony Jefferson : OKLAHOMA
11. JJ Wilcox : GEORGIA SOUTHERN
12. TJ McDonald : USC
13. Cooper Taylor : RICHMOND
14. Shamarko Thomas : SYRACUSE
15. Earl Wolff : NORTH CAROLINA STATE

Your right, this is one of the deepest Safety classes in years but while very solid, there is no star among them as yet. I think you have Reid, Elam and J.J.Wilcox a bit low for my liking.

Analysis: Much like the crop of cornerbacks, the safety position is very deep for the upcoming draft. When considering the top seven guys (Vaccaro, Cyprien, Thomas, Williams, Reid, Rambo and Swearinger) they could easily be shuffled around depending on what qualities one looks for in their safeties. Vaccaro is the most complete of the bunch, but there are lapses in his play at times during this season so he's not without flaws. After Barron went high last year, it wouldn't surprise me if he goes Top 10 like some scouts/journalists are suggesting. Cyprien impressed me big time during the Senior Bowl week and he is everything a defensive coordinator wants in a safety with his physicality and ability to drop back in coverage. Some project Eric Reid as a free safety but I see more of a strong safety as a guy who needs to operate closer to the line. Matt Elam has the heart of a lion but his size concerns me and his ability to hold up long term in the league. Cooper Taylor was the star of Shrine week and after the way Seattle has composed their secondary, a guy with his size and measurables will be highly sought after in this copycat league.

Let's open up the discussion on this year's defensive backs...I'm always open to criticism, defending my rankings, and seeing how others' rankings match up to mine
There could be a lot of starters coing out of this year's CB and Safety classes but as far as the Safeties are concerned, never underestimate the Safety who can intimidate like Reid and Elam, they are always going to be in demand.
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 12:18 PM    (permalink
princefielder28
Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 26,942
Reputation: 1729895
princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
There could be a lot of starters coing out of this year's CB and Safety classes but as far as the Safeties are concerned, never underestimate the Safety who can intimidate like Reid and Elam, they are always going to be in demand.
JJ Wilcox has some very intriguing skills to work with and mold for the safety position. His inexperience makes him a prospect that teams will have to be patient with and we may not see the kind of player he can be until three or four years from now.
__________________


Follow me on Twitter! http://twitter.com/#!/aMo_Captain
princefielder28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 12:54 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wallaceburg, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 12,141
Reputation: 287181
Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Iamcanadian is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by princefielder28 View Post
JJ Wilcox has some very intriguing skills to work with and mold for the safety position. His inexperience makes him a prospect that teams will have to be patient with and we may not see the kind of player he can be until three or four years from now.
Very few rookies are completely up to snuff and get far better by their second and third season, but it doesn't mean they cannot start in year 1 think a lot of these Safeties will be starters right out of the gate.

The way I see it, with such a huge # of juniors declaring, teams that do well in this year's draft will be set up as contenders for years, while teams that have a poor draft will be looking back at this draft as the reason for being a weak team. IMO, this is a make or break draft, that is how loaded it is at every position
__________________
And proud of it!!!
Iamcanadian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 12:34 PM    (permalink
thetedginnshow
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 12,213
Reputation: 214818
thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thetedginnshow is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I like your top 3 CBs. Personally, I would have Hyde in the top 5. Your Safeties seem pretty good, except for Vaccaro. I just don't think he's very good.
__________________
Ohio State Buckeyes Duke Blue Devils New York Jets St. Louis Cardinals San Jose Sharks Seattle Sonics
thetedginnshow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 10:38 PM    (permalink
Nastradamus
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,427
Reputation: 159834
Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Nastradamus is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

One thing is clear. My Lions MUST get 2 safeties out of the first 4 rounds of this draft.
Nastradamus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 10:44 PM    (permalink
holt_bruce81
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 9,122
Reputation: 613058
holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Interesting that you're so low on Tony Jefferson. Would like to know why.
holt_bruce81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 08:29 AM    (permalink
princefielder28
Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 26,942
Reputation: 1729895
princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 View Post
Interesting that you're so low on Tony Jefferson. Would like to know why.
With Elam, Williams and Jefferson they could easily be listed as 8a, 8b and 8c in my rankings because each safety is more interested in operating closer to the box and have the ability to play coverage adequately as well. Jefferson had some poor performances this season, especially against West Virginia, and when I evaluate a prospect I put more weight on those crucial games against higher competition. I don't want to make it sound like I am not a fan of Jefferson because I would be more than happy with one of these top 10 safeties being selected by the Packers in the first three rounds of the draft.
__________________


Follow me on Twitter! http://twitter.com/#!/aMo_Captain
princefielder28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 10:11 AM    (permalink
Robbieb7
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 42
Reputation: 547
Robbieb7 is a cocksman.Robbieb7 is a cocksman.Robbieb7 is a cocksman.
Default

Pretty good list, I think Rhodes is the 2nd best CB in this draft with Trufant 3rd.
Personally Elam is my favorite safety in this draft, yes he is on the smaller side but look at some of the other great safeties in this league.
Elam 5'10 202
Ed Reed 5'11 205
Earl Thomas 5'10" 202
Troy Polamalu 5'10" 207
Jairus Byrd 5'10 203 etc...
Robbieb7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.