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Old 03-02-2013, 12:21 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Default What's Up with Honey Badger?

Tyrann Mathieu, better know as Honey Badger had a pretty good Combine.
He showed the instincts of a shut down CB and some say, he was a mile ahead of every other CB at the Combine in that area.

MR. Dukes, an analyst on the 'Path to the Draft' even suggested, he could go round 1, that's how he saw him perform at the combine.

What say you all?

I have to admit, he really impressed me with his combine performance but I'm still inclined to think he will be no better than a late round 2 or round 3 pick. His hip rotation was out of this world, why are there so many talented head cases in this year's draft, Christine Michael is just another terrible waste of talent.
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:45 AM    (permalink
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I thought he had a solid workout but it wasn't "OMG, NEXT SHUTDOWN CORNERZ!!!" when I saw his combine numbers. Also, look at the film. He's a playmaker on ST and on defense but he's an undersized corner that struggles in man coverage, and he also carries a ton of off-the-field baggage.

I wouldn't spend a first or second round pick on him.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:13 AM    (permalink
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I was always a fan of his game film, I recognize what he isn't able to do but realize what he brings to a team and he's a guy who is great with the ball in his hands and has a nose for the football. But his combine didn't wow me, it was just solid, nothing there was extreme enough to take him in the 1st or even 2nd round. 3rd round sign me up, but with the baggage, and the fact that I don't think you can just put him outside on a good WR, not going to take him any sooner.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:01 AM    (permalink
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He seems like a nice accessory to me. I think he'll be able to contribute to a defense as long as he doesn't have to be a primary piece. He'd get owned by the NFL's best wide receivers.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:06 AM    (permalink
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For me the model is Janoris Jenkins. On film, Jenkins was a top 5 talent who fell to the second round because he had serious character issues. Jenkins is both more talented, and more versatile than Matthieu (who projects to a slot CB/accessory piece) so I would put Matthieu's ceiling at the third round.

Unless of course the lesson teams learned from Janoris Jenkins is "it's okay to take this guy high despite his character concerns." But if I passed on Jenkins last year, and feel okay about doing that in retrospect, then I pass on Matthieu this year. Eventually the value will sufficiently mitigate the risk, however.
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:13 AM    (permalink
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For me the model is Janoris Jenkins. On film, Jenkins was a top 5 talent who fell to the second round because he had serious character issues. Jenkins is both more talented, and more versatile than Matthieu (who projects to a slot CB/accessory piece) so I would put Matthieu's ceiling at the third round.

Unless of course the lesson teams learned from Janoris Jenkins is "it's okay to take this guy high despite his character concerns." But if I passed on Jenkins last year, and feel okay about doing that in retrospect, then I pass on Matthieu this year. Eventually the value will sufficiently mitigate the risk, however.
Jenkins is beyond "more talented" when it comes to the CB position.

Just wanted to stress that part.
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Jenkins is beyond "more talented" when it comes to the CB position.

Just wanted to stress that part.
Mostly what I'm saying is that if you didn't consider taking Jenkins in the first last year, you would be batf$&*ing insane to consider taking Matthieu in the first this year.
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:54 AM    (permalink
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i dont want to spend a high pick on a very risky guy whose upside is nickel corner and special teams ace
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:06 AM    (permalink
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A 5th rd. on the bud man? Or his baggage not worth the effort on a return guy? Did he ever get his scale back?
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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i dont want to spend a high pick on a very risky guy whose upside is nickel corner and special teams ace
He showed with his bench that he's lazy in his workout habits too and we know he can't learn from his mistakes with the weed. Not interested in any round.
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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He showed with his bench that he's lazy in his workout habits too and we know he can't learn from his mistakes with the weed. Not interested in any round.
I can't blame you for that, he does have a ton of baggage. I'm not going to blame him too much for the weight and lack of training because he was out of the football program. We don't really know it but there would be a bunch of guys if out of the program could realistically keep themselves in football shape.


I mean he has been gone since August right? All things considered, does anybody realistically believe his combine would have been exactly the same if he had been with the LSU S&C coach for 7 months straight? So taking that into consideration I thought his combine looked great, he's very fluid and natural, great awareness, I just think he'll be a good football player. What it boils down to, is he's lazy and smokes weed.


I don't want that in a QB or a team leader, but I'd guess there are a bunch of guys in the same situation right now in the NFL. People killed Dez for his pro day and everywhere you read it was considered lack luster. He couldn't finish some drills, was out of breath, and he was still out of shape for Training Camp that year. It had been a long time since he'd done anything with a football program, but now that he has for awhile and has a structure to push him to workout everyone forgets that if it was a lockout he'd more then likely be lazy.


Plus, I think guys who can create turnovers on D, and score points on special teams, are wildcards to have on a football team and ultimately win games. He's not good enough to warrant taking in the 2nd for me but there is a high bust rate of 3rd rounders as is and skill wise he's a safe pick IMO.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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i dont want to spend a high pick on a very risky guy whose upside is nickel corner and special teams ace
His upside is Bob Sanders though.


Definitely worth a 3rd round pick or later. I'd pick him up in the 3rd round in a heartbeat. It's worth it to gamble on elite talent like that.

However, 2nd round is dicey for me. If I really felt good about him after interviewing him, and I was a team with very few elite players on my defense, I'd strongly consider gambling on him in the 2nd round like the Rams gambled on Janoris Jenkins last year.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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His upside is Bob Sanders though.
His upside is having two good seasons and getting paid like he had 5 before becoming a tiny, broken wreck and an official bust?


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Old 03-03-2013, 11:39 PM    (permalink
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His upside is having two good seasons and getting paid like he had 5 before becoming a tiny, broken wreck and an official bust?
Ah man, how can anyone hate on Bob Sanders?? Guy put it all on the field everytime
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:10 AM    (permalink
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Although they were at different stages in their collegiate careers, game tape at LSU seemed to be very telling.

Peterson was the combo of athleticism and pure corner ability.
Claiborne was more in the pure corner mode.
Mathieu was the river city gambler splash play side of things.

He has potential, but I never saw pure shutdown capability, but a guy who leaned toward the Deon Hall side of things.
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:36 AM    (permalink
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I want to know if he tested clean at the combine first. It sounds like a joke but this guy was bad enough that he blew through probably a dozen chances at LSU before they kicked him off.
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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I want to know if he tested clean at the combine first. It sounds like a joke but this guy was bad enough that he blew through probably a dozen chances at LSU before they kicked him off.
I think you'll find that out in the next coming weeks.

Like Mayock said, when you draft a guy with Character issues, it's not necessarily the first year you're worried about. It's after getting that contract and for the future. Will this guy continue to progress and stay out of trouble, or will he feel more comfortable after landing that 6-7 figure salary?

We all have to remember, we've all smoked it in college, heck I've seen some people who've done some other things, and they're doing alright these days in their respected fields of study. It's a time to let loose. It's how you respond after college. Unfortanelty there are still some "kids" that never grow out of that partying phase, and I know a few who've lost their jobs because of that part of their life effecting that.

The NFL should be no different. So, hopefully Matthieu responds well and his troubling past was a wake up call because, even though I hate to say this, leaving school without a degree, this is extremely important for him and his future. Hopefully he continues to realize this.

Sometimes, I wonder, how hard is it to stay out of trouble? If you know heading to the club in a certain area could warrant trouble, why go? I'm sure you can pick up some chicks at a local bar in the city, or anywhere.
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:55 AM    (permalink
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When LSU tells you that you party too hard, you should consider inpatient treatment.
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:45 AM    (permalink
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I'd like to see how those shutdown corner instincts work for him against a Brandon Marshall. Prediction: 15 catches for 200 even with safety help.

He's weak and small.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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I'd like to see how those shutdown corner instincts work for him against a Brandon Marshall. Prediction: 15 catches for 200 even with safety help.

He's weak and small.
coincidentally Cutler would have 15 completions for 200 yards that game
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:21 AM    (permalink
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A nickel CB and punt returner is pretty valuable in the NFL. I think he's a 3rd round pick at this point, assuming he doesn't do something stupid in the next 2 months. He's a playmaker. He showed it on gameday and he shows he has the speed and footwork to continue to make plays. He's not going to shutdown the Calvin Johnson's of the world, but I'd trust him to hold up against most #2 WRs if I had to. Tim Jennings was an All-Pro at a similar size this year.
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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A nickel CB and punt returner is pretty valuable in the NFL. I think he's a 3rd round pick at this point, assuming he doesn't do something stupid in the next 2 months. He's a playmaker. He showed it on gameday and he shows he has the speed and footwork to continue to make plays. He's not going to shutdown the Calvin Johnson's of the world, but I'd trust him to hold up against most #2 WRs if I had to. Tim Jennings was an All-Pro at a similar size this year.
I'd be happy for the Panthers to draft him in the 3rd (if we had a 3rd!). He's a second round talent based on his instincts, playmaking/return ability and solid athleticism.

He's never going to match up on the outside against Calvin Johnson, but then there's about 5 CBs in the NFL that can do that!

Put him in the Nickle/as the 3rd S in that formation and let him roam around the field. He'll create enough turnovers/havoc to warrant being on the field!
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Old 03-02-2013, 09:35 AM    (permalink
Monomach
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A nickel CB and punt returner is pretty valuable in the NFL. I think he's a 3rd round pick at this point, assuming he doesn't do something stupid in the next 2 months. He's a playmaker. He showed it on gameday and he shows he has the speed and footwork to continue to make plays. He's not going to shutdown the Calvin Johnson's of the world, but I'd trust him to hold up against most #2 WRs if I had to. Tim Jennings was an All-Pro at a similar size this year.
Mathieu's got about half of the athleticism of Jennings. He's slower, much much much much much much much much weaker, less explosive, and can't get as vertical. If Mathieu had turned in Jennings' combine numbers, he'd be seen as the #2 corner of this class. Being the same size doesn't mean much.

Sam Montgomery is the same size as Brian Urlacher, but I'm not too sure how I feel about him dropping back and covering the middle of the field.

Also...Keep in mind that Jennings sucked for his first five years in the league. He's had five atrocious years and two years worthy of pro bowl talk despite being better in pretty much every way coming out of college.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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Mathieu's got about half of the athleticism of Jennings. He's slower, much much much much much much much much weaker, less explosive, and can't get as vertical. If Mathieu had turned in Jennings' combine numbers, he'd be seen as the #2 corner of this class. Being the same size doesn't mean much.

Sam Montgomery is the same size as Brian Urlacher, but I'm not too sure how I feel about him dropping back and covering the middle of the field.

Also...Keep in mind that Jennings sucked for his first five years in the league. He's had five atrocious years and two years worthy of pro bowl talk despite being better in pretty much every way coming out of college.
Ok. Did I say he was the same player as Jennings or did I say same size? Mathieu has better ball skills than Jennings and while he cant touch him in man coverage I think u can do a lot with Honey Badger as far as blitzing, scheme wise, etc. That's not to say he's as good a player though.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Ok. Did I say he was the same player as Jennings or did I say same size? Mathieu has better ball skills than Jennings and while he cant touch him in man coverage I think u can do a lot with Honey Badger as far as blitzing, scheme wise, etc. That's not to say he's as good a player though.
Ohhhhhh. I get it.



In all seriousness, though...5th round nickel corner at best.
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