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Old 05-20-2013, 11:33 PM    (permalink
bigbuc
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Default Peppers or Revis?

Remember back in 2010 when we could have signed Peppers and teamed him up with a young rookie in McCoy. That year we went 10-6 missed the playoffs. Peppers signed with the Bears for 91 million.

This year we traded for Revis and gave him 16 Million a year. Also giving up a first round pick.


We still could have signed all the players we have but Revis if we had signed Peppers that off season. We've also been bottom in sacks all these years. So looking back on it.... Should have we just signed Peppers that off season? Or are you happy the way it has turned out for the Bucs?
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:43 AM    (permalink
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Wow guy, I don't think any fan would say we should not have signed Peppers but would JP have wanted to come here is a more likely question. I remember were outbid by the Redskins, thank goodness, for Albert Haynesworth the year before so that may have been a deterrent for the front office as well. Another hypothetical scenario from the butterfly effect would be would Dom have drafted Adrian Clayborn the following year to team up with him. We have seen what Julius did for Israel Idonije numbers, Clayborn is another high motor guy who had 7.5 sacks his rookie season so that number could of very well been double digits.
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:10 AM    (permalink
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Wow guy, I don't think any fan would say we should not have signed Peppers but would JP have wanted to come here is a more likely question. I remember were outbid by the Redskins, thank goodness, for Albert Haynesworth the year before so that may have been a deterrent for the front office as well. Another hypothetical scenario from the butterfly effect would be would Dom have drafted Adrian Clayborn the following year to team up with him. We have seen what Julius did for Israel Idonije numbers, Clayborn is another high motor guy who had 7.5 sacks his rookie season so that number could of very well been double digits.
I'm not saying we shouldn't have signed Peppers. But from what I remember we didn't make a run for him. We were in the build in the draft mode. Morris said mid way in that season about signing Peppers because we didn't think a 10-6 season was going to happen. I would have loooooved to sign Peppers, but no way if Peppers was on this team Revis would be. Just not enough money to go around.
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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The better question is, where would we be if Jon Gruden got his way, and drafted Aaron Rodgers in 2005 instead of Bruce Allen's choice..... Carnell Williams?


Not that Peppers wouldn't be nice.... but still.
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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The better question is, where would we be if Jon Gruden got his way, and drafted Aaron Rodgers in 2005 instead of Bruce Allen's choice..... Carnell Williams?


Not that Peppers wouldn't be nice.... but still.
No. That was Gruden dude. Are you serious? Gruden brought Allen in so e could have full control. Allen is was ad always will be a cap specialist.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:49 PM    (permalink
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No. That was Gruden dude. Are you serious? Gruden brought Allen in so e could have full control. Allen is was ad always will be a cap specialist.

Gruden didn't bring anyone "in".


The Glazers brought Bruce Allen in to reign in spending and get the cap situation under control..... and a top 5 pick RB is cheaper than a top 5 pick QB.

If you still have any doubt that I'm less than 100% correct on that, maybe you need to remember Bruce Allen's first move when he got settled in to the Redskins' GM position. He traded for veteran QB Donovan McNabb. But I guess that Gruden was behind the scene twisting his arm, right? Laughable. Here he went out and got Griese and Garcia, and tried to trade for Jake Plummer somewhere in between, all the while toiling on trying to develop mid/late round picks in Simms and Gradkowski when those players got hurt.


The hard truth for too many people here, because there are far too many sports dunce-caps in this town that have been infected by the likes of Steve Duemig and Martin Fennelly, is that Gruden had nowhere near the control many thought he had. Fact is, Bruce Allen thought, still likely thinks, he has a blueprint for winning. His daddy's. Remember the "over-the-hill gang"? Yeah.... that was George Allen. The preference for veterans is actually in Bruce Allen's blood. And you're going to sit there and somehow try to deny history and bloodlines?


That..... and I have heard it from Gruden's mouth that he regrets not being more forceful in drafting Rodgers. Fact is about that draft, is that Jon Gruden and Paul Hackett (QB coach at the time) flew out to California and had a secret private workout with Rodgers, and they wanted him badly, but Allen thought Williams was going to go to Chicago, and HE had him rated #1. Rodgers was told at a NY restaurant the night before the draft from Gruden, that he was going to be a Buc if he got to the #5 pick. Chicago went with Cedric Benson. At that point Allen trumped Gruden, as he felt his signing of Griese as well as Simms on the roster were plenty for Gruden to work with, while Gruden was plenty comfortable with Pittman, Alstott and Graham at RB. Bruce..... just like his daddy.... avoided the young QB.

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Old 05-24-2013, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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The better question is, where would we be if Jon Gruden got his way, and drafted Aaron Rodgers in 2005 instead of Bruce Allen's choice..... Carnell Williams?


Not that Peppers wouldn't be nice.... but still.
I remember Gruden being all lovey dovey with Williams at the Senior Bowl and then also telling Williams before he ran that it didn't matter what he ran because the Bucs were still going to pick him.

I would have rather found out what would have happened if we went with my choice, Shawne Merriman and my RB preference, keeping Thomas Jones. Merriman was dynamic those first few years and Thomas Jones had a far better career than Williams did.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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There's also the mountains of evidence that show that Gruden hated, and always has, young QBs.
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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There's also the mountains of evidence that show that Gruden hated, and always has, young QBs.
I remember hearing about Gruden flipping out when the McKay took Simms in 2003 in the 3rd round. He said something along the lines of never take a QB before consulting him.

That led to Gruden having more "control". He didn't take Rodgers because Gruden never seemed to have the patience to develop a young QB for some reason.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:37 PM    (permalink
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The thing I most remember about the 2005 draft was when gruden said that Ware reminded him of a young Simeon Rice. Jon, you were so right! Ware ended up better.
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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The thing I most remember about the 2005 draft was when gruden said that Ware reminded him of a young Simeon Rice. Jon, you were so right! Ware ended up better.
And yet we still took a freaking running back...UGGGHHHHHH!
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Old 05-25-2013, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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The truth is that Gruden saw a young Charlie Garner everytime he looked at Williams. I didn't see it. Garner was faster, quicker, and had far far far better hands. Cadillac was a little bit bigger (not as big as his listed 217 though-I think he shoved rocks in his pockets at the Combine because I remember a few years later he was talking about putting on muscle and getting his weight all the way up to 212) and other than the first three games of his career, wasn't even close to being in the same category as Garner.

I still remember the year before, they let Thomas Jones go in free agency and Bruce Allen quipped, "We'll see how he likes playing in Chicago come December." This despite the fact that Jones got $1 million a year less, and one year less on his deal than Garner did that offseason from the Bucs... and he wasn't coming off knee surgery... or nearly as old as Garner.

Gruden was like a great drug. He made you feel all good. Things were great, but he was killing us.
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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Yep. Gruden just couldn't replenish what was lost. Great coach but didn't like younger qbs to develop. Always seemed to go more veteran savvy til guys developed so they could contend.

That's why I see Gruden as a bit of a hypocrite with his qb camp show. He's going to talk rookie prospects up yet he had no patience to develop younger qbs.
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Old 05-27-2013, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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The truth is that Gruden saw a young Charlie Garner everytime he looked at Williams.

Not quite. Close. But not quite.


Gruden kept trying to force himself to believe that Michael Pittman was his Garner, and Williams was his Tyrone Wheatley. Cadillac couldn't catch a cold, and neither could Wheatley.


When really, Earnest Graham was his new Garner, but he didn't see it soon enough or use him to the full extent when he had the shot.
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