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Old 04-28-2008, 04:54 AM    (permalink
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If the O-line protects Rex, I can see this team going 11-5 or 12-4 with a healthy defense.
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Old 04-28-2008, 07:29 AM    (permalink
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If the O-line protects Rex, I can see this team going 11-5 or 12-4 with a healthy defense.
I'm hoping for .500 at this point, any thing else is gravy.
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:29 AM    (permalink
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if the o-line protects KYLE and opens up some holes for forte, i think at least .500 would be nice.

we could still win our very winnable division...ive been saying that for a while but i think its real possible.

the vikings are the team that scare me the most and in all honesty, tavaris might be worse at QB than either of the guys we have. if he doesn't drastically improve to the level of the rest of that team, he could hold them back. (you've seen awful QBs hold us back before....)

and GB, we whipped them last year when they had favre. and theres no indication to me that rodgers is anything worthwhile yet. he could but, but hes basically just starting his rookie year in terms of starts.

and the lions...theyre the lions.....

very winnable division imo. we have our own questions to answer jsut as they do, but its entirely possible we win it.
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:33 AM    (permalink
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in an open quarterback competition Rex Grossman will probably win... he's definitely the better, more talented, and more experienced quarterback...
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:42 AM    (permalink
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in an open quarterback competition Rex Grossman will probably win... he's definitely the better, more talented, and more experienced quarterback...
does he really give us a better chance to win though? he gives away about as many games as he wins...
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Old 04-28-2008, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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does he really give us a better chance to win though? he gives away about as many games as he wins...
well with Orton starting... the Defense is going to have to win the game for us... Grossman is capable of winning games with his arm... ultimately though both options suck.
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Old 04-28-2008, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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well with Orton starting... the Defense is going to have to win the game for us... Grossman is capable of winning games with his arm... ultimately though both options suck.
our defense CAN win us those games as long as teh offense is competent enough to stay on the field and let the defense rest.

with grossman, that defense can play a great 3 and out just to have rex turn it over right away again...thats why our defense wore down and got so hurt IMO was because they were on the field way too much
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Old 04-28-2008, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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The biggest problem is that the division doesn't suck as much as it did in the 2006 season. The defense will still probably be on the field for a long time. They should be better, even though it may not lead to more wins.
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Old 04-28-2008, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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I'm sick and tired of leaning on the defense to win ball games, I really am and it wears the guys down if you constantly rely on them to make up for the offensive struggles. And if we had a better running game I'd be more ok with Orton, but our offense is anemic with KO in there. At least Rex gives us some fire power on offense, yeah he makes stupid mistakes at times but he also gives our offense a dimension Orton doesn't.

And people are acting like Orton doesn't turn the ball over, he has a tendency to throw some interceptions when he's in the game.

In an open competition though I think Rex wins because he's the more talented and experienced QB, whether you like it or not I think Rexy will be our starter come Week 1. Both guys have their weaknesses but the reason I go with Rex is that he gives the offense a dimension Orton doesn't, he can actually win a game with his arm, Kyle can't...at least not right now.

Rex really looked good when he came back after being benched in my opinion. So hopefully his play carries over to this upcoming season.
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Old 04-28-2008, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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We scored 33 points against the Saints with Orton at quarterback and Adrian Peterson (the bad one) at runningback.

The idea that our offense is more productive with Grossman at quarterback is statistically incorrect. Grossman had a nice 4-5 game run at the beginning of the 2006 season, but other than that it's been closer to the early games last year against the Chargers and Chiefs (23 total points, 7 from Hester).

Grossman will give us more YPA (6.6), Orton is (5.2) considerably lower. That is not a stat to sneeze at. In fact, next to INT% and 3rd down conversion ratio I would consider it the most important stat for a quarterback.

Grossman has thrown 33 interceptions in 900 career attempts. That's one interception for every 27 attempts, which actually isn't terrible. Orton has thrown 15 interceptions on 448 attempts, which is an interception every 30 attempts.

So, on the odds, Grossman is statistically the better quarterback. But it's worth keeping in mind that Orton was doing that in his rookie season before Berrian developed and before Tait was moved over to the left side. Both did wonders for Grossman's ability. It's also worth noting that Orton took 32 sacks, while Grossman took a whopping 56. So Orton definately has the better ability to get rid of the ball, though not by much.

Having an open competition makes sense for both guys. This is probably the only team in the NFL where both wouldn't be immediate backups. At this point the only real reason I'm leaning Orton is because he's more of an unknown. I already know Grossman sucks. Orton at least showed something last year, and I think is more deserving of a second chance to rebound from his awful rookie season.
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Old 04-28-2008, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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but, the evil u know is always better than the evil u dont know ;) j/k
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Old 04-28-2008, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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I'm not getting the Tait thing, Grossman had him on the left side for two seasons I believe when Fred Miller came in, so wouldn't that hinder Rex more?

Idk, I wouldn't be upset if Orton got the job but I'd rather have Grossman. But hey, if Kyle wins it fair and square I'm ok with that.

It's a double edged sword. Kyle won't win you a ball game but he won't lose it either with turnovers. Rex can win you a game with his arm but his turnovers can lose you a game as well. It's six and one half dozen of the other.
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Old 04-28-2008, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Tait on the left side is a good thing. Orton had Qasim Mitchell.

Tait > Qasim Mitchell.

My point was that Grossman had better talent around him than Orton did his rookie season, added on to the fact that it was his rookie season. Grossman throws too many picks and takes too many sacks. Orton seems to have fixed both of those deficiencies. Now he just needs to be more accurate. I'd rather give him a chance. Rex sucks. His career is over.
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Old 04-28-2008, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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And I can't think of more than one or two games where I honestly felt like Grossman was intregal to us winning. The Seahawks game in the playoffs. Maybe the Packers game back in 2006. That's about it.
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Old 04-28-2008, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Tait was terrible on the left side this year, he needs to stay on the right side.

Idk, I just don't see Orton beating out Rex in Training Camp but that's me. If he does, fantastic but I don't see it.
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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And I can't think of more than one or two games where I honestly felt like Grossman was intregal to us winning. The Seahawks game in the playoffs. Maybe the Packers game back in 2006. That's about it.
Actually Tait started on the left side for Orton's rookie season. I felt he got snubbed for the Pro Bowl that year. Fred Miller had a decent year too.
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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Ah yes. I've gotten that mixed up before too.

Point remains, Grossman had a better situation than Orton to work with, and didn't really do statistically better. Orton seems to be improving, whereas Grossman has only gotten progressively worse since the start of 2006.
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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take away the bengals game from orton's rookie year and i really don't think he had a bad year for a rookie QB thrust in from game 1...10-5 as a starter that year not losing us games was adequate for me.

a healthy defense + hester + orton not losing us games could be a winning recipe.

i think our division is clearly better than it was that year but theyre not without their crippling flaws.

minnesota could be amazlingly great, but they have tavaris who can and will hold them back if he doesn't show a little something somehow.....and rodgers is basically a rookie in terms of game experience. I think the packers definitally outplayed their talent level and experience last year and with what is basically a rookie QB in there now, they could slip.

and the lions are the lions.
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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Ah yes. I've gotten that mixed up before too.

Point remains, Grossman had a better situation than Orton to work with, and didn't really do statistically better. Orton seems to be improving, whereas Grossman has only gotten progressively worse since the start of 2006.
Eh...Orton looked a lot like he did his rookie season in the final 2 games of this year.

Grossman went from Pro Bowler early in 2006, to horrible during the middle and end of the season, then back to solid in the first two playoff games, to bad in the Super Bowl. Then he started off bad in 2007 and after he came back actually looked pretty good before his injury.

We'll see come TC but I'll wager money that Orton doesn't beat out Grossman.
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Old 04-28-2008, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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Ah yes. I've gotten that mixed up before too.

Point remains, Grossman had a better situation than Orton to work with, and didn't really do statistically better. Orton seems to be improving, whereas Grossman has only gotten progressively worse since the start of 2006.
Grossman looked ok right before he got hurt. Who knows how he'll play without having the long bomb to Berrian in his repertoire. Orton started rusty but actually showed some accuracy after a few games which I agree shows he's capable of improving. Orton also seemed to have a good chemistry with Bradley. Ive called for both of their heads at different times so I don't have a favorite between the two. We all know Grossman is a training camp superstar so he will probably get the nod when all is said and done. How long he lasts after that is a question mark.

Wouldn't it be awesome if both the Packers and Viking had QB controversy's for the next couple years now that they have young guys sitting behind shaky starters?
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Old 04-28-2008, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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also, when do we go back to the probability that rex is injury prone? 04 ACL injury in game 3 of the season...done. 05 broken ankle in preseason, missed first 13 games of the season(ortons rookie year) 06 injury free. 07 sprained mcl...shut down for rest of year.
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