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Old 01-15-2007, 06:54 PM    (permalink
cowboysforever
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Originally Posted by LSUALUM99
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine
Wow, dude, I was beginning to wonder if we had lost you permanently. Good to hear from you, though. This thread has been going downhill fast since, oh....around early December. It would be nice if you could contribute a little more, we could definitely use as much input from good posters as we can get. The best way to exemplify the way this thread has been lately is in asking the question : "If two morons argue on a message board, and no one pays any attention, did it really happen?
LOL. Who was it that wrote about arrogance earlier and not liking name calling? Just too much.
I think it's fair to say that DMW and I have both been stating intelligent arguments for quite some time on this board. Some things you have said are well thought out, and some I classify as pipe dreams or otherwise unrealistic ideas. Just because something is broken (i.e. Roy Williams) doesn't mean it's easy to fix (i.e. trade Roy Williams for Shaun Rogers). Things like that don't work in the real world and suggesting them only serves to lessen your credibility.
LSU, I have no doubt you and DWS are good posters. I am not debating that but I also read your posts, and his, and you are wrong sometimes. For eaxmple, you where calling the OL good and D dominant. DWS was saying Eillis getting injured was for the better and that Rivera was pretty good. Now we can argue the degree to which these are wrong but I think they are just wrong.

So. On the play personnel stuff my one core, non-negotiable position is if you don't accept you have a real big problem then you can never really solve it. Problem identification is the start of a resolution regardless of contracts. Contracts can be structured and restructured and many times we fans don't understand how they worl.

Perfect example is Roy Williams. A few posters here like Roy Williams. They believe that Roy under a new scheme with a "Pro Bowl" FS would flourish like he did in 2003. Even when these individuals are uncomfortable arguing his abilities they say "CONTRACT." Can't make a change so forget it and move on .... Wrong.

Well let us start with contract. Mickey Spagnola just indicated Roy's contract requires a 5.5 MM roster bonus on March. So this makes moving Roy easier if true. Roy's 2006 Salary was 565K. Depending on how the math works it equates to a cap hit less than Vanderjagt if you eliminate Roy or trade him.

Now, if we would like to argue contract at this time. Please. Let us. But facts please. I want facts. Not emotional arguments why Roy is salvagable. Talk analytically about his contrat and the Cap Hit et al....

Now let us talk Performance on the Field and results. Mickey Spagnola's articel says it all on Roy. I listen to lots of analysts and not one outside of Dallas thinks Roy is any good as a SS. To put it in Mike Francesca's words from WFAN in NY -- "He is not any good more than 5 yards from the LOS and even there he is horrible at shedding blocks. Unless he gets a free run at a player he is horrid"

This is why Burress called him an ankle tackler.

He is a SS who can't cover what SS normally cover. He is a SS who at the Point of Attack near the LOS usually gives up his body instead of trying to make a play. He is a SS who is a step slow in zone coverage and takes bad angles. He is defensive in the locker room and is very sensitive to criticism.

I think Roy can play but in a vastly different scheme and as a different player as an OLB.

I think (hope, pray) Roy can transform his body and work very hard to improve fatal inadequacies for a SS.

So given all this. Why is Roy a lock on next year's roster? And even if a lock because of bonus, why is he even a starter?

Instead of killing our FS to cover up for Roy why not find a SS who can play the position better than Roy.

Instead, the topic of discussion is "how do we rescue our lovable #8 pick who in 5 years has proven a disappointment as SS." Scheme, new FS, better pass rush ..... etc.

Anyway, good luck.
If I remember correctly, you yourself just praised the heck out of an article that suggested that very same solution...an article that you later referenced in this same post.
My praise of article that damns Roy Williams for poor play is correct. I welcome the opening in this dialogue. Roy IMHO is the A number 1 reason the D fell apart.

What Mr Spagnola feels is a solution for Roy I feel is subject to intense debate.

I am trying to see where the "gotcha" is? Please help me understand where I may have contradicted myself?

I can not find it.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:55 PM    (permalink
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The degree of intelligence in this thread nowdays has hit rock bottom.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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I would like a move back to the 4-3. We were the #1 defense in Parcells 1st year and I think it's because the 4-3 is a better defense against the NFC. Reason? Most of the NFC coaches are west coast disciples and rhythm is easier to disrupt with a Tampa 2 like scheme. With the 3-4, I feel like there isn't enough initial pressure and the QB can get into a rhythm pretty easily if they get the first couple of passes completed. (ala Brees, Kitna, Garcia, McNabb)

I think we could keep Parcells with this situation, and I don't know why he liked the switch after we were the #1 defense after year 1.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:57 PM    (permalink
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The degree of intelligence in this thread nowdays has hit rock bottom.
Wow. Another guy comes in insulting folks.

I guess we need to go back into D-Unit posts to find some of his "less than exemplary" threads.

The thought police here are strong.
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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yeah when is the last time you have even posted your opinion on here D-Unit?
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Gribble
I would like a move back to the 4-3. We were the #1 defense in Parcells 1st year and I think it's because the 4-3 is a better defense against the NFC. Reason? Most of the NFC coaches are west coast disciples and rhythm is easier to disrupt with a Tampa 2 like scheme. With the 3-4, I feel like there isn't enough initial pressure and the QB can get into a rhythm pretty easily if they get the first couple of passes completed. (ala Brees, Kitna, Garcia, McNabb)

I think we could keep Parcells with this situation, and I don't know why he liked the switch after we were the #1 defense after year 1.
Well, it might have had something to do with the fact that we set a team record for most points allowed in his second season, and that we won 6 of 16 games with Testaverde as our starting QB.....and our offense was still the strength of the team. So, yeah.

I find it astounding that people so conveniently sweep under the rug the fact that we were the 4th ranked defense in the league as late as week 12 of the season.


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Originally Posted by D-Unit
The degree of intelligence in this thread nowdays has hit rock bottom.
Sadly, yes. It would be nice if you would help us stem the tide, though. With Barney making 10 posts per page, it's difficult to have a coherent discussion, but LSU and I have been trying pretty hard. Don't know where Thule went.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LSUALUM99
Here's a news story that isn't getting alot of press.

Everyone thinks that Parcells didn't want TO and Jerry did. There really hasn't been any indication that this is the case at all. They've both been on the same page from Day 1 about TO. So I think that is probably a false rumor.

The story that hasn't gotten any press that intrigues me alot is the Drew Bledsoe v. Romo issue as it pertains to Jerry Jones and Bill Parcells.

Here are the things that make me say hmmmmmmm.....

Tony Romo is brought in during BP's first year along with Henson in BP's second year. BP immediately seems to take a disliking to Henson, but seems to favor Romo. JJ's boy is definitely Henson. BP sticks with Testeverde almost out of SPITE by not getting Henson any real playing time even when the cowboys are out of the playoff race.

The cowboys bring in Bledsoe and stick with Romo and Henson as the backups. Romo is BP's guy, Henson is JJ's. The question is then, is Bledsoe BP's guy or JJ's. I used to think it was BP's but I think maybe JJ wanted him just as bad if not worse b/c JJ knows that having a 'name' at QB is good for a franchise. JJ hates the idea of rebuilding. BP knew that transitioning to a 3-4 was rebuilding and yet he brought in Bledsoe? Hmm....

Cowboys are criticized for not drafting a QB and for not playing Henson. Yet, in 2005 Romo takes over the #2 spot. Henson is essentially shown the door by year end in 2005. (now here's where my 'grassy knoll theory' starts to take shape). BP knows he's stuck with Bledsoe because JJ doesn't want to 'throw away 2006' by going to the 'rookie' QB to start the season. BP gets irritated, thinks of retiring. JJ and BP have a 'sit down' meeting where BP basically says that Romo should start. JJ thinks Bledsoe is the way to go. BP and JJ come to a compromise, where JJ says 'look, we'll go with Bledsoe to start, but if he struggles we'll go with Romo'. As part of this compromise, BP convinces JJ that he needs 1 more year to make this work, so JJ gives him an extension through 2007. BP likes this idea because he figures Romo will play alot in 2006 (knowing that Bledsoe will struggle and Romo will be playing by mid-season). He also knows that first time starters may struggle too. BP is, despite the mass theories, setting up the team to be contenders in 2006, but knows that 2007 is the SUPER BOWL year.

Fast forward to NFL DRAFT 2006. BP builds the defense, knowing that with a young QB he'll need a dominant defense to minimize the chances the QB will have to take.

Training camp. Rumors fly from Peter King that Romo will be the starter in 2006. King is a good friend of BP. BP plants this seed knowing that it makes the QB switch easier mid season. BP knew going into the season that Bledsoe wasn't going to take him to the super bowl. BP also had to appease JJ by not 'throwing away 2006' and honoring his compromise with JJ. BP also knows that once the change is made, his plan is in motion. After the switch BP is rejuvinated b/c everything has worked perfectly and he sees 2007 as the SUPER BOWL year.

BP will be back in 2007, I guarantee it.


Anyway, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it.
On Page 2 of the thread. How cool is this?
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gribble
I would like a move back to the 4-3. We were the #1 defense in Parcells 1st year and I think it's because the 4-3 is a better defense against the NFC. Reason? Most of the NFC coaches are west coast disciples and rhythm is easier to disrupt with a Tampa 2 like scheme. With the 3-4, I feel like there isn't enough initial pressure and the QB can get into a rhythm pretty easily if they get the first couple of passes completed. (ala Brees, Kitna, Garcia, McNabb)

I think we could keep Parcells with this situation, and I don't know why he liked the switch after we were the #1 defense after year 1.
Well, it might have had something to do with the fact that we set a team record for most points allowed in his second season, and that we won 6 of 16 games with Testaverde as our starting QB.....and our offense was still the strength of the team. So, yeah.

I find it astounding that people so conveniently sweep under the rug the fact that we were the 4th ranked defense in the league as late as week 12 of the season.


Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit
The degree of intelligence in this thread nowdays has hit rock bottom.
Sadly, yes. It would be nice if you would help us stem the tide, though. With Barney making 10 posts per page, it's difficult to have a coherent discussion, but LSU and I have been trying pretty hard. Don't know where Thule went.
Problem with our 4th ranked defense was that we were torched by Philly beforehand and had really hit our stride as a team until the Sean Payton told everyone else the blueprint.

In our 2nd season with Parcells we didn't really have a steady running game until Jones emerged toward the end of the season as well as not having picked any players on defense.

Since then we've added:

Ware, Spears, Henry, Glenn, Carpenter, Hatcher, Ratliff, Burnett, and Watkins.

As well as losing Glover, Coakley, Nguyen, and Woodson.

It's up to debate now.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cowboysforever
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit
The degree of intelligence in this thread nowdays has hit rock bottom.
Wow. Another guy comes in insulting folks.

I guess we need to go back into D-Unit posts to find some of his "less than exemplary" threads.

The thought police here are strong.
Wait... if this is a resounding theme, then I must be on to something...

The "thought police"? Ha ha... Did you come up with that on your own? Cute, very cute.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit
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Originally Posted by cowboysforever
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Originally Posted by D-Unit
The degree of intelligence in this thread nowdays has hit rock bottom.
Wow. Another guy comes in insulting folks.

I guess we need to go back into D-Unit posts to find some of his "less than exemplary" threads.

The thought police here are strong.
Wait... if this is a resounding theme, then I must be on to something...

The "thought police"? Ha ha... Did you come up with that on your own? Cute, very cute.
You know, D, the more people continue disputes like these the worse the thread gets. It's because people won't stop bickering about so and so's ideas instead of coming up with new ones. It's annoying to read 3 pages of arguments to get to something genuinely informative or interesting.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gribble
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSUALUM99
Here's a news story that isn't getting alot of press.

Everyone thinks that Parcells didn't want TO and Jerry did. There really hasn't been any indication that this is the case at all. They've both been on the same page from Day 1 about TO. So I think that is probably a false rumor.

The story that hasn't gotten any press that intrigues me alot is the Drew Bledsoe v. Romo issue as it pertains to Jerry Jones and Bill Parcells.

Here are the things that make me say hmmmmmmm.....

Tony Romo is brought in during BP's first year along with Henson in BP's second year. BP immediately seems to take a disliking to Henson, but seems to favor Romo. JJ's boy is definitely Henson. BP sticks with Testeverde almost out of SPITE by not getting Henson any real playing time even when the cowboys are out of the playoff race.

The cowboys bring in Bledsoe and stick with Romo and Henson as the backups. Romo is BP's guy, Henson is JJ's. The question is then, is Bledsoe BP's guy or JJ's. I used to think it was BP's but I think maybe JJ wanted him just as bad if not worse b/c JJ knows that having a 'name' at QB is good for a franchise. JJ hates the idea of rebuilding. BP knew that transitioning to a 3-4 was rebuilding and yet he brought in Bledsoe? Hmm....

Cowboys are criticized for not drafting a QB and for not playing Henson. Yet, in 2005 Romo takes over the #2 spot. Henson is essentially shown the door by year end in 2005. (now here's where my 'grassy knoll theory' starts to take shape). BP knows he's stuck with Bledsoe because JJ doesn't want to 'throw away 2006' by going to the 'rookie' QB to start the season. BP gets irritated, thinks of retiring. JJ and BP have a 'sit down' meeting where BP basically says that Romo should start. JJ thinks Bledsoe is the way to go. BP and JJ come to a compromise, where JJ says 'look, we'll go with Bledsoe to start, but if he struggles we'll go with Romo'. As part of this compromise, BP convinces JJ that he needs 1 more year to make this work, so JJ gives him an extension through 2007. BP likes this idea because he figures Romo will play alot in 2006 (knowing that Bledsoe will struggle and Romo will be playing by mid-season). He also knows that first time starters may struggle too. BP is, despite the mass theories, setting up the team to be contenders in 2006, but knows that 2007 is the SUPER BOWL year.

Fast forward to NFL DRAFT 2006. BP builds the defense, knowing that with a young QB he'll need a dominant defense to minimize the chances the QB will have to take.

Training camp. Rumors fly from Peter King that Romo will be the starter in 2006. King is a good friend of BP. BP plants this seed knowing that it makes the QB switch easier mid season. BP knew going into the season that Bledsoe wasn't going to take him to the super bowl. BP also had to appease JJ by not 'throwing away 2006' and honoring his compromise with JJ. BP also knows that once the change is made, his plan is in motion. After the switch BP is rejuvinated b/c everything has worked perfectly and he sees 2007 as the SUPER BOWL year.

BP will be back in 2007, I guarantee it.


Anyway, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it.
On Page 2 of the thread. How cool is this?
Well acording to D-Unit, DWSackmachine and LSU himself that is intelligent discussion. EXCUSE ME, soliloquey. All others suck when they post anything other than "I agree.".

Yeah, I find the insulting Thought Police to be much less intelligent than they make themselves out to be. They like to write very very very very very long posts that repeat the same boring ideas. Regurigating ESPN speak. Then at the sign of any dissent to their medicore ideas they say "Barney" or "Madden" and gang up.

Funny that when you put ideas, data and anlysis together they say "no. I own you!" Worse yet they pretend they are GMs. Some intellectually greens kids here if you ask me.

Sad, could be fun if folks just let it be....
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysforever
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gribble
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSUALUM99
Here's a news story that isn't getting alot of press.

Everyone thinks that Parcells didn't want TO and Jerry did. There really hasn't been any indication that this is the case at all. They've both been on the same page from Day 1 about TO. So I think that is probably a false rumor.

The story that hasn't gotten any press that intrigues me alot is the Drew Bledsoe v. Romo issue as it pertains to Jerry Jones and Bill Parcells.

Here are the things that make me say hmmmmmmm.....

Tony Romo is brought in during BP's first year along with Henson in BP's second year. BP immediately seems to take a disliking to Henson, but seems to favor Romo. JJ's boy is definitely Henson. BP sticks with Testeverde almost out of SPITE by not getting Henson any real playing time even when the cowboys are out of the playoff race.

The cowboys bring in Bledsoe and stick with Romo and Henson as the backups. Romo is BP's guy, Henson is JJ's. The question is then, is Bledsoe BP's guy or JJ's. I used to think it was BP's but I think maybe JJ wanted him just as bad if not worse b/c JJ knows that having a 'name' at QB is good for a franchise. JJ hates the idea of rebuilding. BP knew that transitioning to a 3-4 was rebuilding and yet he brought in Bledsoe? Hmm....

Cowboys are criticized for not drafting a QB and for not playing Henson. Yet, in 2005 Romo takes over the #2 spot. Henson is essentially shown the door by year end in 2005. (now here's where my 'grassy knoll theory' starts to take shape). BP knows he's stuck with Bledsoe because JJ doesn't want to 'throw away 2006' by going to the 'rookie' QB to start the season. BP gets irritated, thinks of retiring. JJ and BP have a 'sit down' meeting where BP basically says that Romo should start. JJ thinks Bledsoe is the way to go. BP and JJ come to a compromise, where JJ says 'look, we'll go with Bledsoe to start, but if he struggles we'll go with Romo'. As part of this compromise, BP convinces JJ that he needs 1 more year to make this work, so JJ gives him an extension through 2007. BP likes this idea because he figures Romo will play alot in 2006 (knowing that Bledsoe will struggle and Romo will be playing by mid-season). He also knows that first time starters may struggle too. BP is, despite the mass theories, setting up the team to be contenders in 2006, but knows that 2007 is the SUPER BOWL year.

Fast forward to NFL DRAFT 2006. BP builds the defense, knowing that with a young QB he'll need a dominant defense to minimize the chances the QB will have to take.

Training camp. Rumors fly from Peter King that Romo will be the starter in 2006. King is a good friend of BP. BP plants this seed knowing that it makes the QB switch easier mid season. BP knew going into the season that Bledsoe wasn't going to take him to the super bowl. BP also had to appease JJ by not 'throwing away 2006' and honoring his compromise with JJ. BP also knows that once the change is made, his plan is in motion. After the switch BP is rejuvinated b/c everything has worked perfectly and he sees 2007 as the SUPER BOWL year.

BP will be back in 2007, I guarantee it.


Anyway, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it.
On Page 2 of the thread. How cool is this?
Well acording to D-Unit, DWSackmachine and LSU himself that is intelligent discussion. EXCUSE ME, soliloquey. All others suck when they post anything other than "I agree.".

Yeah, I find the insulting Thought Police to be much less intelligent than they make themselves out to be. They like to write very very very very very long posts that repeat the same boring ideas. Regurigating ESPN speak. Then at the sign of any dissent to their medicore ideas they say "Barney" or "Madden" and gang up.

Funny that when you put ideas, data and anlysis together they say "no. I own you!" Worse yet they pretend they are GMs. Some intellectually greens kids here if you ask me.

Sad, could be fun if folks just let it be....
You perpetuate this on yourself by treating other people like their opinions don't mean anything and insulting them.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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How about this...

As best as possible, can we try to stick to one topic of debate and hear all sides of the story from anyone who wants to contribute without being bombarded with off topic posts from guys coming up with the latest/greatest new ideas?

It would be kinda nice to get a healthy debate going without having to hear "Roy Williams is the root of all evil..." or "Let's switch back to the 4-3..." or looking back and saying "What if... If only we... We shoulda... I wish we woulda..." Let's move forward and not backward and try to put together some realistic/logical resolutions to the problem.

So how about we start this off with...

"The main problem for the Dallas Cowboys is... in order to rectify the situation... "
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit
How about this...

As best as possible, can we try to stick to one topic of debate and hear all sides of the story from anyone who wants to contribute without being bombarded with off topic posts from guys coming up with the latest/greatest new ideas?

It would be kinda nice to get a healthy debate going without having to hear "Roy Williams is the root of all evil..." or "Let's switch back to the 4-3..." or looking back and saying "What if... If only we... We shoulda... I wish we woulda..." Let's move forward and not backward and try to put together some realistic/logical resolutions to the problem.

So how about we start this off with...

"The main problem for the Dallas Cowboys is... in order to rectify the situation... "
We have to become a team instead of a group of individuals where people stick out.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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The main problem is coaching and it branches out into the defense and offense.

I am serious.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Gribble
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysforever
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gribble
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSUALUM99
Here's a news story that isn't getting alot of press.

Everyone thinks that Parcells didn't want TO and Jerry did. There really hasn't been any indication that this is the case at all. They've both been on the same page from Day 1 about TO. So I think that is probably a false rumor.

The story that hasn't gotten any press that intrigues me alot is the Drew Bledsoe v. Romo issue as it pertains to Jerry Jones and Bill Parcells.

Here are the things that make me say hmmmmmmm.....

Tony Romo is brought in during BP's first year along with Henson in BP's second year. BP immediately seems to take a disliking to Henson, but seems to favor Romo. JJ's boy is definitely Henson. BP sticks with Testeverde almost out of SPITE by not getting Henson any real playing time even when the cowboys are out of the playoff race.

The cowboys bring in Bledsoe and stick with Romo and Henson as the backups. Romo is BP's guy, Henson is JJ's. The question is then, is Bledsoe BP's guy or JJ's. I used to think it was BP's but I think maybe JJ wanted him just as bad if not worse b/c JJ knows that having a 'name' at QB is good for a franchise. JJ hates the idea of rebuilding. BP knew that transitioning to a 3-4 was rebuilding and yet he brought in Bledsoe? Hmm....

Cowboys are criticized for not drafting a QB and for not playing Henson. Yet, in 2005 Romo takes over the #2 spot. Henson is essentially shown the door by year end in 2005. (now here's where my 'grassy knoll theory' starts to take shape). BP knows he's stuck with Bledsoe because JJ doesn't want to 'throw away 2006' by going to the 'rookie' QB to start the season. BP gets irritated, thinks of retiring. JJ and BP have a 'sit down' meeting where BP basically says that Romo should start. JJ thinks Bledsoe is the way to go. BP and JJ come to a compromise, where JJ says 'look, we'll go with Bledsoe to start, but if he struggles we'll go with Romo'. As part of this compromise, BP convinces JJ that he needs 1 more year to make this work, so JJ gives him an extension through 2007. BP likes this idea because he figures Romo will play alot in 2006 (knowing that Bledsoe will struggle and Romo will be playing by mid-season). He also knows that first time starters may struggle too. BP is, despite the mass theories, setting up the team to be contenders in 2006, but knows that 2007 is the SUPER BOWL year.

Fast forward to NFL DRAFT 2006. BP builds the defense, knowing that with a young QB he'll need a dominant defense to minimize the chances the QB will have to take.

Training camp. Rumors fly from Peter King that Romo will be the starter in 2006. King is a good friend of BP. BP plants this seed knowing that it makes the QB switch easier mid season. BP knew going into the season that Bledsoe wasn't going to take him to the super bowl. BP also had to appease JJ by not 'throwing away 2006' and honoring his compromise with JJ. BP also knows that once the change is made, his plan is in motion. After the switch BP is rejuvinated b/c everything has worked perfectly and he sees 2007 as the SUPER BOWL year.

BP will be back in 2007, I guarantee it.


Anyway, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it.
On Page 2 of the thread. How cool is this?
Well acording to D-Unit, DWSackmachine and LSU himself that is intelligent discussion. EXCUSE ME, soliloquey. All others suck when they post anything other than "I agree.".

Yeah, I find the insulting Thought Police to be much less intelligent than they make themselves out to be. They like to write very very very very very long posts that repeat the same boring ideas. Regurigating ESPN speak. Then at the sign of any dissent to their medicore ideas they say "Barney" or "Madden" and gang up.

Funny that when you put ideas, data and anlysis together they say "no. I own you!" Worse yet they pretend they are GMs. Some intellectually greens kids here if you ask me.

Sad, could be fun if folks just let it be....
You perpetuate this on yourself by treating other people like their opinions don't mean anything and insulting them.
Please find me ONE thread where I was the first person to do the insulting.

If you are correct you will easily find given the volume of posts.

They all start with "here is an idea" and end up with "you are Madden."

It is all downhill from there. Hard to discuss things nicely when folks are dismissing you right of the bat.

So facts, please.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CTCowboysFan
The main problem is coaching and it branches out into the defense and offense.

I am serious.
You will need to elaborate.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit
How about this...

As best as possible, can we try to stick to one topic of debate and hear all sides of the story from anyone who wants to contribute without being bombarded with off topic posts from guys coming up with the latest/greatest new ideas?

It would be kinda nice to get a healthy debate going without having to hear "Roy Williams is the root of all evil..." or "Let's switch back to the 4-3..." or looking back and saying "What if... If only we... We shoulda... I wish we woulda..." Let's move forward and not backward and try to put together some realistic/logical resolutions to the problem.

So how about we start this off with...

"The main problem for the Dallas Cowboys is... in order to rectify the situation... "
Well, ask and yee shall have already received.

Here is my original set of thoughts ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysforever
OK, Let me go back Thule and list the various ideas but first stating what the problem is first. Problem, Analysis, Solution in order of importance

Problem 1A: Our D is too slow in the middle of the field
Problem 1B: Bad pass rush.
Problem 2A: We don't have a real high quality RB
Problem 2B: Our Guards stink
Problem 5: TO is a distraction to the team
Problem 6: You want to address all the problem within context of $$$ while not completely overhauling a roster that has talent

I will go from here issue by issue

Problem 1A: Slow.

Problem Description: I believe the performance of Bradie James and Roy Williams have been discusses ad nauseum. Many disagree but I think the big issue is they are slow. BBD was talking how Urlacher is a great example of being out of position but using speed to recover. Here are some potential solutions...

S1. Trade: Roy has some value in a 4-3. Maybe even Bradie. Contracts are tough but one bloated cap Player for another is possible. Shaun Rogers was a guy that came to mind where maybe a Roy W plus Burnett gets it done. Obviously this has some implications on solving Problem 1B and what happens to a good player, Fergie. After the trade either get a better coverage SS in the draft or promote Elam. I think Elam looked good in the Pre season.

S2. Slim Down: Easiest option and obvious.

S3. Bench Bradie or Roy or both: If you can bench Archuleta then why not Roy. Again, go Elam or Draft or FA on SS. In linbacking -- put in your 4 fastest LB -- Ayodele, Burnett, Ware and Carpenter. Bradie, Ellis, Fowler, Singleton, Glymph off the bench.

S4. Day 1 Draft Pick. Usual names.

1B Pass Rush.

Problem Description: Obvious

S1. Trade: Well I proposed find a new NT with ability to push. Someone mentioned Kris Jenkins. Another interesting option. Obviously if you trade for either you need to give up something so check the solution sets to problem 1A

S2: Draft or FA: Adalius Thomas, Jarvis Moss, Quentin Moses and LaMarr Woodley come to mind as names mentioned here that are pressure guys in the top end of the draft. With that said this approach creates such a huge back log in the LB Corp that once again you have to think trading away some excess talent. Burnewtt, Carpenter, Thomas, Ayodele and Ware is over kill.

S3: Internal development of DEs. Absolutely but do we hang our hat on this one.

Problem 2A: We don't have a real high quality RB

Problem Description: Our RBs are ok but not one is the true star or BP type back. Julius is fast but has poor vision, gets knocked down fast, not a great pass catcher and is smallish. Barber lacks home run speed and is too small to be a bruiser. Thompson is green, does lack juke but is fast.

S1: Draft: If a stud falls to you draft him. Lynch comes to mind. M Bush is coming out now too. Impact guy who can start day 1 in round 1.

S2: Draft/Trade: Juilius has value. Trade him for a pick and turn that into a real good third down back. Booker has been mentioned. Maybe an FA cheap. Turner Barber inot the one but get him 10 pounds of muscle. Use Thompson to relieve Barber. I like this option cuz it gives us some optionality in 1st down to throw to the back.

Problem 2B: Guards stink

Problem Description: Get pushed around more than Tina with Ike..

S1: Draft: Blalock comes to mind obviosly. Could use a Levi Brown too. Grubbs. Ramirez etc

S2: FA. Again? Have we not spent on this already

S3: Internal Development and Promotion of Proctor.

To me the first four problems are most pressing and most inter-dependent. If you can solve a few via trade then others via draft and vice versa but you start with FA if you ask me.

Problems 5 and 6 are almost mutually exclusive. I don't think they are nearly as complicated or important to solve unless we go WR round 1 or we magically give away 29 MM in cap space over night.

On a side note, yes, Austin can do it by the way. What a great kid and what great talent. Hell if Colston can play so can this kid. Not only that GMs are saying you can find great WR talent later and later in drafts so.... replacing TO is not as mission critical from a personnel perspective but important for morale.

Anyway. God night I hope.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysforever
How about this...

As best as possible, can we try to stick to one topic of debate and hear all sides of the story from anyone who wants to contribute without being bombarded with off topic posts from guys coming up with the latest/greatest new ideas?

It would be kinda nice to get a healthy debate going without having to hear "Roy Williams is the root of all evil..." or "Let's switch back to the 4-3..." or looking back and saying "What if... If only we... We shoulda... I wish we woulda..." Let's move forward and not backward and try to put together some realistic/logical resolutions to the problem.

So how about we start this off with...

"The main problem for the Dallas Cowboys is... in order to rectify the situation... "

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboysforever
OK, Let me go back Thule and list the various ideas but first stating what the problem is first. Problem, Analysis, Solution in order of importance

Problem 1A: Our D is too slow in the middle of the field
Problem 1B: Bad pass rush.
Problem 2A: We don't have a real high quality RB
Problem 2B: Our Guards stink
Problem 5: TO is a distraction to the team
Problem 6: You want to address all the problem within context of $$$ while not completely overhauling a roster that has talent

I will go from here issue by issue

Problem 1A: Slow.

Problem Description: I believe the performance of Bradie James and Roy Williams have been discusses ad nauseum. Many disagree but I think the big issue is they are slow. BBD was talking how Urlacher is a great example of being out of position but using speed to recover. Here are some potential solutions...

S1. Trade: Roy has some value in a 4-3. Maybe even Bradie. Contracts are tough but one bloated cap Player for another is possible. Shaun Rogers was a guy that came to mind where maybe a Roy W plus Burnett gets it done. Obviously this has some implications on solving Problem 1B and what happens to a good player, Fergie. After the trade either get a better coverage SS in the draft or promote Elam. I think Elam looked good in the Pre season.

S2. Slim Down: Easiest option and obvious.

S3. Bench Bradie or Roy or both: If you can bench Archuleta then why not Roy. Again, go Elam or Draft or FA on SS. In linbacking -- put in your 4 fastest LB -- Ayodele, Burnett, Ware and Carpenter. Bradie, Ellis, Fowler, Singleton, Glymph off the bench.

S4. Day 1 Draft Pick. Usual names.

1B Pass Rush.

Problem Description: Obvious

S1. Trade: Well I proposed find a new NT with ability to push. Someone mentioned Kris Jenkins. Another interesting option. Obviously if you trade for either you need to give up something so check the solution sets to problem 1A

S2: Draft or FA: Adalius Thomas, Jarvis Moss, Quentin Moses and LaMarr Woodley come to mind as names mentioned here that are pressure guys in the top end of the draft. With that said this approach creates such a huge back log in the LB Corp that once again you have to think trading away some excess talent. Burnewtt, Carpenter, Thomas, Ayodele and Ware is over kill.

S3: Internal development of DEs. Absolutely but do we hang our hat on this one.

Problem 2A: We don't have a real high quality RB

Problem Description: Our RBs are ok but not one is the true star or BP type back. Julius is fast but has poor vision, gets knocked down fast, not a great pass catcher and is smallish. Barber lacks home run speed and is too small to be a bruiser. Thompson is green, does lack juke but is fast.

S1: Draft: If a stud falls to you draft him. Lynch comes to mind. M Bush is coming out now too. Impact guy who can start day 1 in round 1.

S2: Draft/Trade: Juilius has value. Trade him for a pick and turn that into a real good third down back. Booker has been mentioned. Maybe an FA cheap. Turner Barber inot the one but get him 10 pounds of muscle. Use Thompson to relieve Barber. I like this option cuz it gives us some optionality in 1st down to throw to the back.


Problem 2B: Guards stink

Problem Description: Get pushed around more than Tina with Ike..

S1: Draft: Blalock comes to mind obviosly. Could use a Levi Brown too. Grubbs. Ramirez etc

S2: FA. Again? Have we not spent on this already

S3: Internal Development and Promotion of Proctor.

To me the first four problems are most pressing and most inter-dependent. If you can solve a few via trade then others via draft and vice versa but you start with FA if you ask me.

Problems 5 and 6 are almost mutually exclusive. I don't think they are nearly as complicated or important to solve unless we go WR round 1 or we magically give away 29 MM in cap space over night.

On a side note, yes, Austin can do it by the way. What a great kid and what great talent. Hell if Colston can play so can this kid. Not only that GMs are saying you can find great WR talent later and later in drafts so.... replacing TO is not as mission critical from a personnel perspective but important for morale.

Anyway. God night I hope.
Well, ask and yee shall have already received.

Here is my original set of thoughts ....
Chance of drafting a running back in day 1 is slim to none. I think we have 2 quality running backs in Barber and Julius, I just think Parcells hasnt figured out quite yet how he wants to use them.

Parcells did take the cowboys to 10-6 with Hambrick and Cason.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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What are we in third grade?
This shouldn't be who's a better poster? Who backs up their points better?
Someone should make a statement, ask a question, etc. and others should respond with their own. If you think someone is wrong, back it up with your own facts. In the end, if neither of the two parties can agree, then who cares, everyone else has heard both sides and can get their own opinion. LSU, D-Unit, and DMW have been here longer, and yes, we all know that this thread was better even back when the infamous Tex was still posting. But it's not gonna improve by a bunch of namecalling and "you contradicted yourself".."no YOU contradicted yourself!

With that said, my opinion on the Roy/Defense is:
First Round: Marcus McCauley (I know I'm gonna get bashed but hear me out)
Second Round: Lamarr Woodley/Jarvis Moss
Third Round:Gonzalez/Davis/Higgins
I can't tell you how much I want Henry at FS. He's played at that position before at South Florida. He has natural ball instincts and can tackle more than adequately. Although Mccauley did not have a great senior season, I'm a big fan and he has the athletic ability to stay with any WR in the NFL. Roy stays at SS until passing downs, when we use him as a rover or a blitzer and replace him with Pat Watkins. Anthony Henry and Pat Watkins would make a great safety duo IMO against the pass. Fact is, we aren't gonna release Roy. We need to find a way to use him that plays to his strengths. At Oklahoma, Roy did not have much pass responsibily and played very similar to what im proposing. With another pass rusher, we have insurance if Ellis cannot come back full strength and if he does we have more depth of people who can get after the QB.
Also, I'm looking for Hatcher to either make a run for or take either Canty or Spears's job by next season.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:48 PM    (permalink
CTCowboysFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTCowboysFan
The main problem is coaching and it branches out into the defense and offense.

I am serious.
You will need to elaborate.
I like Parcells D-Unit don't get me wrong I just feel he is holding us back.

He has no imagination (like a Sean Payton), he does not do anything creative.

And the defense is not suited to be a 3-4 defense, this is the only time in the Dallas Cowboy history that the 3-4 has been used and the sooner it is discarded the better.

We need a new coach who can be here for 5 or more years and bring some imagination and creativity with him.

This offense is too Simplistic. We need to have some plays to throw off the other team. I am not saying we weren't productive, we were just too predictable.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTCowboysFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTCowboysFan
The main problem is coaching and it branches out into the defense and offense.

I am serious.
You will need to elaborate.
I like Parcells D-Unit don't get me wrong I just feel he is holding us back.

He has no imagination (like a Sean Payton), he does not do anything creative.

And the defense is not suited to be a 3-4 defense, this is the only time in the Dallas Cowboy history that the 3-4 has been used and the sooner it is discarded the better.

We need a new coach who can be here for 5 or more years and bring some imagination and creativity with him.

This offense is too Simplistic. We need to have some plays to throw off the other team. I am not saying we weren't productive, we were just too predictable.
I think where I would disagree with you is that I don't think our worst problems are on the O but the D.

I also feel it is less so coaching then it is we over value some the talent we have.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTCowboysFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTCowboysFan
The main problem is coaching and it branches out into the defense and offense.

I am serious.
You will need to elaborate.
I like Parcells D-Unit don't get me wrong I just feel he is holding us back.

He has no imagination (like a Sean Payton), he does not do anything creative.

And the defense is not suited to be a 3-4 defense, this is the only time in the Dallas Cowboy history that the 3-4 has been used and the sooner it is discarded the better.

We need a new coach who can be here for 5 or more years and bring some imagination and creativity with him.

This offense is too Simplistic. We need to have some plays to throw off the other team. I am not saying we weren't productive, we were just too predictable.
...and your idea for resolution is to bring in a new coaching regime, go back to the 4-3 and try and to start again?
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTCowboysFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTCowboysFan
The main problem is coaching and it branches out into the defense and offense.

I am serious.
You will need to elaborate.
I like Parcells D-Unit don't get me wrong I just feel he is holding us back.

He has no imagination (like a Sean Payton), he does not do anything creative.

And the defense is not suited to be a 3-4 defense, this is the only time in the Dallas Cowboy history that the 3-4 has been used and the sooner it is discarded the better.

We need a new coach who can be here for 5 or more years and bring some imagination and creativity with him.

This offense is too Simplistic. We need to have some plays to throw off the other team. I am not saying we weren't productive, we were just too predictable.
...and your idea for resolution is to bring in a new coaching regime, go back to the 4-3 and try and to start again?
The 3-4 is fine and works fine. We just need a coordinator who knows how to run with it. Zimmer was a 4-3 guy.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:58 PM    (permalink
cowboysforever
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTCowboysFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Unit
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTCowboysFan
The main problem is coaching and it branches out into the defense and offense.

I am serious.
You will need to elaborate.
I like Parcells D-Unit don't get me wrong I just feel he is holding us back.

He has no imagination (like a Sean Payton), he does not do anything creative.

And the defense is not suited to be a 3-4 defense, this is the only time in the Dallas Cowboy history that the 3-4 has been used and the sooner it is discarded the better.

We need a new coach who can be here for 5 or more years and bring some imagination and creativity with him.

This offense is too Simplistic. We need to have some plays to throw off the other team. I am not saying we weren't productive, we were just too predictable.
...and your idea for resolution is to bring in a new coaching regime, go back to the 4-3 and try and to start again?
I am not an advocate of changing the D.
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