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Old 07-11-2008, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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Wow that's really bad, I'd hope it had something to do with injuries.
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Old 07-11-2008, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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Wow that's really bad, I'd hope it had something to do with injuries.
Honestly, I didn't think Sheppard was struggling that much. I didn't watch any eagle games except for when they played us. But still.
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Old 07-11-2008, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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I live here, I watch every game. If Castillo is healthy and Merriman isn't suspended the front 7 is def better than the secondary. But Jammer finally came around and played well and Cro was only in his first full year. They can be even better this year.
I agree there's far more talent in the front 7, especially with Luis, but last year I really think the secondary more than pulled its weight for the first time in forever. This year I think we're going to get good safety play as well, and if that happens the sky is the limit for the Charger D.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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I agree there's far more talent in the front 7, especially with Luis, but last year I really think the secondary more than pulled its weight for the first time in forever. This year I think we're going to get good safety play as well, and if that happens the sky is the limit for the Charger D.
I didn't even realize I wrote suspended for merriman hahah I meant to type injured...
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:32 PM    (permalink
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yeah, these are from the past season with the exception of adam jones, his are from the last season he played in.
I have another source that states that Hall's YPA was actually 7.8. Apparently the second best he's ever had. But then again that source is ESPN so I don't know.
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Old 07-12-2008, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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I have another source that states that Hall's YPA was actually 7.8. Apparently the second best he's ever had. But then again that source is ESPN so I don't know.
That's odd, I know espn uses Outsiders material for some of their stats.

I just double checked and they have it as 7.2 for this past season which is fairly average. I would say 7.8 is below average. That is damn near 8 yards for every completion he gives up. That is Jacque Reeves territory.
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Old 07-13-2008, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Wow that's really bad, I'd hope it had something to do with injuries.
Well, Lito was bothered by nagging injuries last year, so I would think it'd have something to do with it. He had a really good success rate (36%) but he gave up a lot of big plays. Part of that was injuries, part of it was his poor tackling.

And with Lito down, Sheldon was covering more #1s, and he's not meant to do that. He's a good #2, and he will be terrific as a nickel for us.

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Honestly, I didn't think Sheppard was struggling that much. I didn't watch any eagle games except for when they played us. But still.
Lito kills the Cowboys! I don't know how he does it, but I'm glad we still have him so he can own the Cowboys some more.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Adam Jones: Targeted 69 times, Success rate of 63%, 5.4 YPC (Avg. yards per completion given up)

Charles Tillman: Targeted 93 times, Success rate of 52%, 5.9 YPC

Champ Bailey: Targeted 67 times, Success rate of 59%, 6.7 YPC

Charles Woodson: Targeted 62 times, Success rate of 58%, 7.7 YPC

Al Harris: Targeted 74 times, Success rate of 40%, 9.4 YPC

Rashean Mathis: Targeted 61 times, Success rate of 47%, 6.5 YPC

Nanmdi Asomugha: Targeted 38 times, Success rate of 61%, 5.8 YPC

DeAngelo Hall: Targeted 92 times, Success rate of 52%,
7.2 YPC

Asante Samuel: Targeted 81 times, Success rate of 51%, 6.3 YPC

Ike Taylor: Targeted 111 times, Success rate of 53%, 7.2 YPC

Quentin Jammer: Targeted 81 times, Success rate of 53%, 6.4 YPC

Antonio Cromartie: Targeted 57 times, Success rate of 50%, 8.2 YPC

Nate Clements: Targeted 109 times, Success rate of 50%, 8.0 YPC
So the "massively overrated" Asante Samuel (according to everyone here) had the fourth best YPC average, and had a success rate of 51%? I'm excited to have this "overrated" corner then.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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So the "massively overrated" Asante Samuel (according to everyone here) had the fourth best YPC average, and had a success rate of 51%? I'm excited to have this "overrated" corner then.
That's exactly what I looked at. I'm pretty pissed. haha.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Well, Lito was bothered by nagging injuries last year, so I would think it'd have something to do with it. He had a really good success rate (36%) but he gave up a lot of big plays. Part of that was injuries, part of it was his poor tackling.

And with Lito down, Sheldon was covering more #1s, and he's not meant to do that. He's a good #2, and he will be terrific as a nickel for us.



Lito kills the Cowboys! I don't know how he does it, but I'm glad we still have him so he can own the Cowboys some more.
You have the success rate backwards... This meant teams were successful against him 64% of the time, or in other word, he only stopped the offense 36% of the time.

however, pre knee surgery in 2006 he had a success rate of 60% and allowed just 6.6 YPC which was in the top 10.

EDIT: If you look in the cowboys team forum at the general discussion, Thule recently posted a good article some guy did where he went more in depth with the stats. I believe it had Samuel in a pretty favorable position.

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Old 07-13-2008, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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You have the success rate backwards... This meant teams were successful against him 64% of the time, or in other word, he only stopped the offense 36% of the time.

however, pre knee surgery in 2006 he had a success rate of 60% and allowed just 6.6 YPC which was in the top 10.

EDIT: If you look in the cowboys team forum at the general discussion, Thule recently posted a good article some guy did where he went more in depth with the stats. I believe it had Samuel in a pretty favorable position.
Oh I apologize about the success rate thing. I misread it. Wow that's a horrible rate, but he wasn't very good last year, so it makes sense.
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Old 07-13-2008, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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EDIT: If you look in the cowboys team forum at the general discussion, Thule recently posted a good article some guy did where he went more in depth with the stats. I believe it had Samuel in a pretty favorable position.
Nevermind I see it now.

"Asomugha had by far the lowest "unsuccessful play" ratio, with one catch or defensive penalty every 29.4 pass attempts he faced (the next-best was 17.7). But he had one of the highest yards allowed per unsuccessful play -- 18.8, which ranked 79th out of 81. So he was almost never targeted or beaten, but when he was beaten, he often gave up big chunks of yardage."

Hmm this is odd. I only remember Asomugha getting beat deep once. It was against the Chiefs on a broken play, but he still saved the TD.

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Old 07-13-2008, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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So the "massively overrated" Asante Samuel (according to everyone here) had the fourth best YPC average, and had a success rate of 51%? I'm excited to have this "overrated" corner then.
Good call. It's funny how the idiot talking heads on TV, sheep prodded to one hype train after another, are blabbering the same Kraft company line about Samuel being a product of the Patriots. Products of a system don't make as many plays as Samuel does, that requires ability and football acumen among other things. There hasn't been a better playmaking corner than Samuel that last two seasons.

Funny how Samuel is such a product of the Patriots, and yet they haven't developed another product as good as or close to Samuel. Not am I expecting them to given their current roster. But who cares about that when they have the best front office evar and the best team evar.

It's a big addition for the Eagles, as despite a great defensive effort and stellar coaching job last season, they couldn't generate turnovers. Their previous best chances were Lito Sheppard and Brian Dawkins, Sheppard has difficulty staying healthy and Dawkins might be getting old. Of course improving the pass rush by adding Clemons and dumping dead weight Jevon Kearse also helps.
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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Good call. It's funny how the idiot talking heads on TV, sheep prodded to one hype train after another, are blabbering the same Kraft company line about Samuel being a product of the Patriots. Products of a system don't make as many plays as Samuel does, that requires ability and football acumen among other things. There hasn't been a better playmaking corner than Samuel that last two seasons.

Funny how Samuel is such a product of the Patriots, and yet they haven't developed another product as good as or close to Samuel. Not am I expecting them to given their current roster. But who cares about that when they have the best front office evar and the best team evar.

It's a big addition for the Eagles, as despite a great defensive effort and stellar coaching job last season, they couldn't generate turnovers. Their previous best chances were Lito Sheppard and Brian Dawkins, Sheppard has difficulty staying healthy and Dawkins might be getting old. Of course improving the pass rush by adding Clemons and dumping dead weight Jevon Kearse also helps.
Exactly, a perfect example is how Ellis Hobbs has some of the worst metrics but is coming from "the system" that should allow him to be great since he can "gamble all he wants with no repercussions"
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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I am sure you have to take into account which scheme the CB plays in. Guys like Asante Samuels play alot of short zone and break on the ball very well, thus giving up less YPA, while other guys like Hall play alot of straight up man to man coverage.
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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I am sure you have to take into account which scheme the CB plays in. Guys like Asante Samuels play alot of short zone and break on the ball very well, thus giving up less YPA, while other guys like Hall play alot of straight up man to man coverage.
Yes, I mentioned up above that scheme must be taken into account.

Marlin Jackson, Ronde Barber, and Asante Samuel all played well in short zone schemes.

Key word though is that they played WELL. It wasn't just the scheme. Plenty of players struggled in the same scheme. The did their jobs well, and when a completion was given up, it wasn't for much.

Beyond that, Asante is great at jumping routes. He has good instincts. That is something you cant teach. People just hate on him because he was a Patriot.

Although the patriots replaced him with Wheatly and he was known for being a gambler in college. I wouldn't be surprised to see him succeed in the scheme, even though he was a 4th rounder. He has good speed and likes to gamble. It will all depend on how many times he guesses right.

On Hall -- I don't know. Obviously you love him. I still think he hasn't reached his potential. It's like he has the tools to be one of the best, but stupid mental errors and too much off field/on field smack talking takes away from his game.

If he would just shut up and really work on his craft I think he could be top 3 in the league.
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Old 07-13-2008, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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what's up with the Deion thing? they should pick his best tandem he was a part of and put it somewhere, but not as high as it is. He couldn't tackle at all either, so I don't think just Deion was better than having two great corners than one great corner and one mediocre corner.
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:00 PM    (permalink
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Uh, most people forget now, but Kevin Smith was a Pro Bowl caliber player for years with the Cowboys. He was by far the best CB that Deion played alongside during his best years, and they were legitimately an All-Time combo. Those two were the best in coverage I have ever seen in all my days watching football.


Also, Burns, are you sure that is yard per completion? I don't follow prospectus like I do Joyner's numbers, but with KC its YPA not YPC, and the YPA numbers he has are fairly close to what you are labeling YPC. Could we clear this up?
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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I hope Al Harris gets back on track this year. He probably shouldnt play the #1 WR anymore.
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:15 AM    (permalink
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Uh, most people forget now, but Kevin Smith was a Pro Bowl caliber player for years with the Cowboys. He was by far the best CB that Deion played alongside during his best years, and they were legitimately an All-Time combo. Those two were the best in coverage I have ever seen in all my days watching football.


Also, Burns, are you sure that is yard per completion? I don't follow prospectus like I do Joyner's numbers, but with KC its YPA not YPC, and the YPA numbers he has are fairly close to what you are labeling YPC. Could we clear this up?
It's actually listed as APaYd which is defined as The average number of yards gained on plays on which the defender was the listed target.

I just listed it as YPC and called it yards per catch to make it easier for everyone to understand.
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Old 07-16-2008, 02:21 AM    (permalink
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I hope Al Harris gets back on track this year. He probably shouldnt play the #1 WR anymore.
I've been curious about Green Bay's defense, because it's easily the most similar to what Oakland runs right now. Pretty much the past two years in Oakland (but at least all of 2007), they played a pure LCB/RCB system instead of moving a corner around with a particular wideout. Does Green Bay try to match up a guy with a particular receiver or do Harris and Woodson typically have a half of the field assigned to them?
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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