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Old 08-06-2008, 01:14 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
We basically gave up a 3rd from 2007 and a 1st from 2008 to get Quinn (b/c we took Wright in round 2 last year and would've taken him in early round 2 just the same). Backup QBs are very important in this day an age of the NFL, and chances are we're gonna get at least most of the value back for him. Having a very good backup QB at the very least and then probably getting a first or a second and third for him is not a waste. It would have sucked if we gave up a top 10 pick in the past draft, but thankfully it only turned out to be a 22nd overall pick (and he was the 22nd overall pick last year).
I agree, if we had given up a top 10 pick then you could possibly question the trade although DA was hardly a cinch at the time to even be our starting QB.
When we made the trade, we were desperate and now that DA has developed, we are in an excellent position to possibly get a top 10 pick in return for either DA or Quinn. DA could go down for a couple of games and if Quinn shows real potential we will be in a rather solid position to get real value for either one, quite possibly IMO, more than we paid to get Quinn in the 1st place.
I love what Savage did when he secured Quinn. He's looking more and more like a top 5 GM in this league and I don't for a moment question the soundness of the trade.
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Old 08-06-2008, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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to get quinn we gave up our 2nd round pick (at 36) in 2007 plus our 2008 1st round pick.

this year's pick could have been:

22 Dallas Jones, Felix RB
23 Pittsburgh Mendenhall, Rashard RB
24 Tennessee Johnson, Chris RB
25 Dallas Jenkins, Mike CB
26 Houston Brown, Duane OT
27 San Diego Cason, Antoine CB
28 Seattle Jackson, Lawrence DE
29 San Francisco Balmer, Kentwan DE
30 NY Jets Keller, Dustin TE
31 NY Giants Phillips, Kenny FS

at 36, you generally have the chance to snag a guy that slipped but was still a legit 1st round pick. for our needs, last year's 2nd round pick could have been a lamarr woodley or david harris either who'd look pretty good in place of peek or davis. would we have taken wright instead of either of those two LBs? maybe, but we still could have still gotten wright by giving up our 3rd, 4th & swapped 6th round picks.

plus with savage's acumen in drafting for value, those two picks could be two pro bowl players we won't have.

the bottom line is that it was a high price to pay, but no one could have foreseen DA's level of success.
Mike Jenkins would've been a nice pick, since you guys traded Lee.
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Old 08-06-2008, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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We had to get Brady Quinn at 22. Our QB situation was horrible. It doesn't really matter who we could have gotten this year. Obviously there's going to be talent that has dropped a little in the first round. Trading Brady Quinn was a smart move and although it would have been nice to have had a first rounder, we now have a luxury at QB.
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Old 08-06-2008, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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neither QB is going anywhere until the browns have to make a decision. DA is the starter. Quinn will get time if DA gets hurt, if we're up by 27 in the 4th, or Da bombs. by the way, in TC so far, DA has been much better at his short passing game and has consistently put a tight spiral on the ball. something Quinn has been unable to do.

-Travis Wilson is doing sweet in camp. but is a ways away from solidifying himself as the #3 receiver.

-syndic steptoe and steve sanders have also improved vastly since last season.

-the CB and WR positions aren't that great of a concern. the only real concern with the positions if having veteran depth. there's plenty of talent. Damon Jenkins, Mil'von James, and A.J. Davis have all proved to be talented players. even Jereme Perry is playing well, as he is the leader in the pack for the #4/5 CB spot.

-depth along the DL is the biggest concern. all the young players have failed to step up so far. Atyba Rubin is being thrown off the line. Purcell and Pittman have problems getting off blocks. As does brian Shaffering. Leonard is inconsistent.

-Edwards is TEARING TC up.

-Alex Hall has shown considerable more progress than expected. may actually make the final roster.

-Hubbard has sucked so far.

-Bell doesn't know what he's doing yet.

-Rucker catches everything.

-IF ryan tucker makes it back for some preseason, he'll be the starter at RG.

-James Lee has been the only one to show the athleticism to be a LT. he may actually make the final roster as well.
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Old 08-06-2008, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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neither QB is going anywhere until the browns have to make a decision. DA is the starter. Quinn will get time if DA gets hurt, if we're up by 27 in the 4th, or Da bombs. by the way, in TC so far, DA has been much better at his short passing game and has consistently put a tight spiral on the ball. something Quinn has been unable to do.

-Travis Wilson is doing sweet in camp. but is a ways away from solidifying himself as the #3 receiver.

-syndic steptoe and steve sanders have also improved vastly since last season.

-the CB and WR positions aren't that great of a concern. the only real concern with the positions if having veteran depth. there's plenty of talent. Damon Jenkins, Mil'von James, and A.J. Davis have all proved to be talented players. even Jereme Perry is playing well, as he is the leader in the pack for the #4/5 CB spot.

-depth along the DL is the biggest concern. all the young players have failed to step up so far. Atyba Rubin is being thrown off the line. Purcell and Pittman have problems getting off blocks. As does brian Shaffering. Leonard is inconsistent.

-Edwards is TEARING TC up.

-Alex Hall has shown considerable more progress than expected. may actually make the final roster.

-Hubbard has sucked so far.

-Bell doesn't know what he's doing yet.

-Rucker catches everything.

-IF ryan tucker makes it back for some preseason, he'll be the starter at RG.

-James Lee has been the only one to show the athleticism to be a LT. he may actually make the final roster as well.
I like hearing good things about Hall and Rucker. It's nice knowing that late round draft picks are doing well (but I guess all our draft picks were late). I'm curious where you get this information from.
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Old 08-08-2008, 06:35 AM    (permalink
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Wake me up when we get to the 4th exhibition game. That's about when we will get a real idea of what we have. The 1st 3 exhibition games are no more than an extention of training camp. The 4th exhibition game begins the period where the starters actually play quite a bit after getting the rust out of their system and we begin to see how the starting lineup will unfold. Teams just pray they get out of the pre season without significant injuries.
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Old 08-08-2008, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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The 4th exhibition game we hardly play the starters at all I thought? Isn't is the third where they get a lot of time?
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Old 08-08-2008, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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The 4th exhibition game we hardly play the starters at all I thought? Isn't is the third where they get a lot of time?

You are correct. The 4th game is always the "throw away game" if you will. It is usually the game where all the scrubs get their final shot to show the coaches something so they might have a chance to make the final cut.

On a different note who were your Top performing young guns from week 1?

1. Travis Wilson - finally playing like a 3rd rounder should.
2. Martin Rucker - Impressive, but I'd like to see him in with the 2nd team at least. WTF is Romeo thinking yet again? I saw undrafted punks in before most of our draft picks
3. Louis Leonard - Had a heck of a game controlling the line of scrimmage and chasing down plays. He played mostly end if I'm not mistaking(anyone want to confirm that for me?) Certainly an upgrade from Simon Fraser and he continues to keep in shape and improve like he has he just may have a future with us.
4. Jerome Harrison - He completely destroyed anything Jason Wright did out there. It is still a joke how Romeo favors that scrub over Harrison each and every week.
5. Alex Hall - Again our defensive calls are seriously horrible. Our linebackers never got to blitz and when they did it was a 1 man blitz. Hall did fairly well giving his lack of oppurtunities.

Damon Jenkins - Horrible
A.J. Davis - Horrible
Milvon James - Horrible
Isaac Sowells - Bad
Melila Purcell - Regressed
James Lee - I saw a lot of guys come untouched from his side of the field and him just standing there. I thought he's been impressive???
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Old 08-08-2008, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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You are correct. The 4th game is always the "throw away game" if you will. It is usually the game where all the scrubs get their final shot to show the coaches something so they might have a chance to make the final cut.

On a different note who were your Top performing young guns from week 1?

1. Travis Wilson - finally playing like a 3rd rounder should.
2. Martin Rucker - Impressive, but I'd like to see him in with the 2nd team at least. WTF is Romeo thinking yet again? I saw undrafted punks in before most of our draft picks
3. Louis Leonard - Had a heck of a game controlling the line of scrimmage and chasing down plays. He played mostly end if I'm not mistaking(anyone want to confirm that for me?) Certainly an upgrade from Simon Fraser and he continues to keep in shape and improve like he has he just may have a future with us.
4. Jerome Harrison - He completely destroyed anything Jason Wright did out there. It is still a joke how Romeo favors that scrub over Harrison each and every week.
5. Alex Hall - Again our defensive calls are seriously horrible. Our linebackers never got to blitz and when they did it was a 1 man blitz. Hall did fairly well giving his lack of oppurtunities.

Damon Jenkins - Horrible
A.J. Davis - Horrible
Milvon James - Horrible
Isaac Sowells - Bad
Melila Purcell - Regressed
James Lee - I saw a lot of guys come untouched from his side of the field and him just standing there. I thought he's been impressive???
Hubbard had that nice catch but that was about it for him.
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Old 08-09-2008, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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You are correct. The 4th game is always the "throw away game" if you will. It is usually the game where all the scrubs get their final shot to show the coaches something so they might have a chance to make the final cut.

On a different note who were your Top performing young guns from week 1?

1. Travis Wilson - finally playing like a 3rd rounder should.
2. Martin Rucker - Impressive, but I'd like to see him in with the 2nd team at least. WTF is Romeo thinking yet again? I saw undrafted punks in before most of our draft picks
3. Louis Leonard - Had a heck of a game controlling the line of scrimmage and chasing down plays. He played mostly end if I'm not mistaking(anyone want to confirm that for me?) Certainly an upgrade from Simon Fraser and he continues to keep in shape and improve like he has he just may have a future with us.
4. Jerome Harrison - He completely destroyed anything Jason Wright did out there. It is still a joke how Romeo favors that scrub over Harrison each and every week.
5. Alex Hall - Again our defensive calls are seriously horrible. Our linebackers never got to blitz and when they did it was a 1 man blitz. Hall did fairly well giving his lack of oppurtunities.

Damon Jenkins - Horrible
A.J. Davis - Horrible
Milvon James - Horrible
Isaac Sowells - Bad
Melila Purcell - Regressed
James Lee - I saw a lot of guys come untouched from his side of the field and him just standing there. I thought he's been impressive???
totally agree.

Leonard played alot of DE for us. he did do pretty good seeing where the play was going. but that was against the jets scrubs. I'm sure this is b/c the rest of our DE's suck

our whole 3rd team secondary needs cut if they played like that again. sorenesen and cargile must not know what cover 2 means. seriously, they let both of those 70 yarders happen. yea davis and james lost their position, but cargile and sorensen are suposed to provide over the top help.

james lee will be a nice surprise for this team. i think i mentioned this a few days before the game.

dont pinpoint the defensive calls against Tucker. most D coordinators dont use their blitz packages in preseason. they only use the basics so that way it cant be veiwed on tape before week one.


btw, kalbears, i'm a member of the OBR. i believe keylime is as well. its a great site if you pay the money. www.browns.scout.com
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Old 08-09-2008, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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Old 08-09-2008, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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The 4th exhibition game we hardly play the starters at all I thought? Isn't is the third where they get a lot of time?
Your right, I should have said wake me up after the 1st 2 games. The 3rd game is the big one for the starters.
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Old 08-11-2008, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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Wright isn't a scrub, he's played very well in the regular season when called on. Last year especially, he made a few big plays for us as a situational back. Harrison is a bit quicker and I think as a runner he can get more yards than Wright even, but his pass blocking and between the tackles ability not being what Wright's is has kept him from being used as much as he should.

I love what I've seen of Rucker, we can have 2 great pass catchers at tight end to create mismatches and stretch the middle of the field to go with our perimeter threats in Edwards and Stallworth. Very dynamic potential on offense, we have very few deficiences on that side of the ball.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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Wright isn't a scrub, he's played very well in the regular season when called on. Last year especially, he made a few big plays for us as a situational back. Harrison is a bit quicker and I think as a runner he can get more yards than Wright even, but his pass blocking and between the tackles ability not being what Wright's is has kept him from being used as much as he should.

I love what I've seen of Rucker, we can have 2 great pass catchers at tight end to create mismatches and stretch the middle of the field to go with our perimeter threats in Edwards and Stallworth. Very dynamic potential on offense, we have very few deficiences on that side of the ball.
You're right about Wright being a better pass blocker, but you're dead wrong about him being better between the tackles. Also we have guys like Vickers, Ali, and Heiden for pass blocking extras. Jerome Harrison needs to get more running and pass catching chances this year and Jason Wright needs to loose those reps, not Jamal Lewis end of story.

1. Lewis
2. Harrison
3. Wright

this is what the depth chart should look like and if you disagree you're plain crazy.
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Old 08-11-2008, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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Wright isn't a scrub, he's played very well in the regular season when called on. Last year especially, he made a few big plays for us as a situational back. Harrison is a bit quicker and I think as a runner he can get more yards than Wright even, but his pass blocking and between the tackles ability not being what Wright's is has kept him from being used as much as he should.
wright's intangibles are part of makes him attractive to the browns' brain trust; he was pre-med at NU and allegedly quite intelligent. he's originally from the LA area where i live and he's a high character guy - the kind of guy you'd want for a neighbor or dating your sister or daughter which also lends itself to being a great influence in the clubhouse. but he and harrison have only about 4.8 40 speed so you shouldn't expect either to break off long runs when you've got some *linebackers*, much less DBs, capable of running them down from behind.

harrison is kinda like mike hart in terms of his college success being as much a result of the system he played in as physical talent. but since this year's offense is supposed to include some zone blocking on the part of the offensive line, this might give harrison more of a chance to be successful should he be able to get playing time - but yeah, he's got to show he can block/pick up the blitz.
-----
and to address someone who purposely seems to miss my point - a lot:

getting quiinn cost us more than this year's 1st round pick - both that 36th pick last year as well as this year's 1st round pick could have translated into picks that could start for us this season has we drafted a woodley or harris or possibly jenkins this year - two possible eventual PRO BOWL level players, given savage's ability to draft for value with his 1st day picks. *that's* the real value we gave up - not the arbitrary ~1300 draft pick value - there were valuable players available that also matched our needs.

but i don't fault savage for making the move - there was no way we could foresee DA's success.

overall, i'm extremely supportive of what savage has accomplished. savage obviously deserves credit for snatching DA off waivers - savage can add two more pro bowl players to his acquisition list that didn't cost the browns any draft picks at all in DA & cribbs. anyone who dings savage for his 2005 draft should note that 2005 was a weak year - there aren't too many 2005 2nd day picks in the league on *any* team.
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:19 PM    (permalink
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Woah... Harrison only has 4.8 speed? I thought he was really fast coming out of college?
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Old 08-11-2008, 11:57 PM    (permalink
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You're right about Wright being a better pass blocker, but you're dead wrong about him being better between the tackles. Also we have guys like Vickers, Ali, and Heiden for pass blocking extras. Jerome Harrison needs to get more running and pass catching chances this year and Jason Wright needs to loose those reps, not Jamal Lewis end of story.

1. Lewis
2. Harrison
3. Wright

this is what the depth chart should look like and if you disagree you're plain crazy.
So Romeo is crazy? That sorta makes sense.
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Old 08-12-2008, 01:16 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by barry View Post
and to address someone who purposely seems to miss my point - a lot:

getting quiinn cost us more than this year's 1st round pick - both that 36th pick last year as well as this year's 1st round pick could have translated into picks that could start for us this season has we drafted a woodley or harris or possibly jenkins this year - two possible eventual PRO BOWL level players, given savage's ability to draft for value with his 1st day picks. *that's* the real value we gave up - not the arbitrary ~1300 draft pick value - there were valuable players available that also matched our needs.

but i don't fault savage for making the move - there was no way we could foresee DA's success.

overall, i'm extremely supportive of what savage has accomplished. savage obviously deserves credit for snatching DA off waivers - savage can add two more pro bowl players to his acquisition list that didn't cost the browns any draft picks at all in DA & cribbs. anyone who dings savage for his 2005 draft should note that 2005 was a weak year - there aren't too many 2005 2nd day picks in the league on *any* team.
Who exactly is this directed to?

I'm trying to figure out in this mess if your contradicting yourself or pointing out the obvious? I've gotten it down to two things; either

A) You feel we shouldn't have drafted Quinn and went for someone with the monetary 1300 pick value with Savage's ability would have been a potential Pro-Bowler or even HoFer by keeping the pick and then taking best player available in the draft. Except if this is the thought process, you totally contradict yourself with the "who knew DA was so good."

-or-

B) You feel that we should have drafted Quinn as our current starting QB was set to be Charlie Frye who beat Derek Anderson out in training camp for the starting job and we needed that guy that can be the new franchise QB for years to come but foresaw that we were going to need another position more in need than QB?

It's like reading; We could have passed on Quinn and gotten someone else but at the time it was the right thing as we had no QB and by week 1, both QB's looked like garbage - but I don't fault Savage's decision.

I'm sure every poster here realizes we could have gotten another player if we didn't trade for Quinn, but I'm also sure every poster here recognizes that our team was so broken during that draft, we need more pieces than there were puzzles.

Obviously we could have gotten someone else, but we didn't have a quarterback at the time worth a damn and we had the opportunity to draft a guy that was slated to go to us pick 3 anyways, and fall no later than round 9 fall to pick 22 due to only supply and demand which equals one of the best draft day opportunities yet [especially since we beat out division rival and ex Browns team - Baltimore Ravens - from almost nabbing him]. We got Quinn at the best possible Value which was one of the biggest and best moves on that day. This isn't Ms. Cleo **** saying it was a mistake years later after Anderson came out of nowhere during Cincinnati in week 2.

Lastly, Quinn may not be a bust or a player that gets later traded at all. Theres 16 games and Frye won the starter job last year and was traded before the next week. Anderson really slowed down at the end of the year against the quote "soft teams." Was it that game tape caught up to him, weather, etc. There's still many question marks that having both QB's right now is probably the best option we have [even though I would have loved and admitted of trading one for additional help elsewhere]..

Also, some writer who's name escapes me who predicted Giants - Pats Super Bowl in preseason last year stated Giants - Browns Super Bowl this year.

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Originally Posted by RoyHall#1 View Post
Woah... Harrison only has 4.8 speed? I thought he was really fast coming out of college?
It's because he was.

NFL Combine Stats: 40-yard dash - 4.47, 225 bench press - 19 reps, vertical jump - 34.5"

I'm pretty sure Berry was estimating or throwing numbers out with a decrease in performance over x amount of years or trying to time him with a stop watch on tv?

I've found multiple sites that list his 40 time [college leading up to combine] at 4.47 with the slowest being 4.59 with multiple sites stating 4.47 as his official time at the combine.
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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Rucker suffered a torn meniscus in practice on Tuesday and will be out about six weeks after undergoing surgery, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports.
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Old 08-13-2008, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Cribbs>Hester View Post
You're right about Wright being a better pass blocker, but you're dead wrong about him being better between the tackles. Also we have guys like Vickers, Ali, and Heiden for pass blocking extras. Jerome Harrison needs to get more running and pass catching chances this year and Jason Wright needs to loose those reps, not Jamal Lewis end of story.

1. Lewis
2. Harrison
3. Wright

this is what the depth chart should look like and if you disagree you're plain crazy.
Wright is great in pass pro and a great special teams player. He had a good year last year and is good at catching screens and wheel routes for big gains. Wright certainly deserves the #2 spot on the depth chart that he has locked up. Harrison has never come along as a pass protector which is why there were a lot of games last year and the year before in which Harrison did not even suit up. He's fast and quick with a lot of burst, but unless he's just a runner he doesn't have much purpose in the offense b/c he can't block.

Jerome's 40 time is somewhere around 4.5, but his straight line speed is not what he's about. He has tremendous burst and is very quick in space. He can move and make people miss.
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Old 08-18-2008, 04:23 AM    (permalink
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Do you think we are more likely to carry 10 linebackers and 5 corners or 9 linebackers and 6 corners this season?

I've fairly confident in the amount of players we'll carry at the other positions, but I can't decide if that final roster spot will go to a linebacker or a corner. Personally I'd rather keep the most talented linebackers, but how bad our corners 3-6 suck we may need to keep more around and rotate them to keep fresh or until one starts playing well enough.
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Old 08-18-2008, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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Without a doubt 5 corners. That's all we've ever carried for as long as I remember, and it's not like we have more than 3 guys who don't deserve to be cut. Wright, McDonald, and Cousin will make it, beyond them we have not one guy who would make the team if we had any kind of decent depth, which is why free safety Mike Adams will play a lot of nickel this year. At linebacker Peek and Beau Bell are recovering from leg injuries, I expect we keep ten for that reason.

My guess: LB-Wimbley, McGinest, Peek, Jackson, Davis, Williams, Griffin, Bell, Orr, Hall. CB-Wright, McDonald, Cousin, Perry, Davis. I wouldn't be surprised at all if a guy like Gerard Lawson beat out Perry or Davis at CB.
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Old 08-18-2008, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
Without a doubt 5 corners. That's all we've ever carried for as long as I remember, and it's not like we have more than 3 guys who don't deserve to be cut. Wright, McDonald, and Cousin will make it, beyond them we have not one guy who would make the team if we had any kind of decent depth, which is why free safety Mike Adams will play a lot of nickel this year. At linebacker Peek and Beau Bell are recovering from leg injuries, I expect we keep ten for that reason.

My guess: LB-Wimbley, McGinest, Peek, Jackson, Davis, Williams, Griffin, Bell, Orr, Hall. CB-Wright, McDonald, Cousin, Perry, Davis. I wouldn't be surprised at all if a guy like Gerard Lawson beat out Perry or Davis at CB.

Obviously you don't remember last year when we our opening day roster included 6 CB inwhich one couldn't even play the entire season and is now cut.

1. Leigh Bodden
2. Eric Wright
3. Daven Holly
4. Kenny Wright
5. Gary Baxter
6. Jeremy Perry

I actually could of sworn we had someone else too. I thought I remember being ticked we had 7 corners to start the season.
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Old 08-18-2008, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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Brown pants today. How do you guys feel about it?
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Old 08-18-2008, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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Brown pants today. How do you guys feel about it?

They seem to be bad luck.

Hank Fraley is still far and away our worst offensive lineman.

Eric Wright better learn quick because he's been sucking for 2 pre seasons and a whole season now. Brandon McDonald is far superior.

Derek Anderson can't make a pass under 15 yards to save his life.

Jamal Lewis's fumble was just a preseason incident. He'll be fine

Sean Jones got his feet tangled on that TD he needs to get better too.

Minus Fraley, Wright and Anderson I think the team is still fine.
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