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Old 09-24-2008, 10:55 AM    (permalink
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
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In the first playoff game, being a holder has nothing to do with being a QB. So fumbling the snap therefore has nothing to do with being an elite QB.

In the second one, there were 9 seconds left in the game when he threw the pick. In that situation, his only hope is to throw it to the endzone and hope someone makes a play. Very few times does it actually work that way, and in this instance, it was picked. If he had thrown it short, his receiver gets tackled and the game ends. He had no choice. Hell, even Tom Brady "pissed away" a playoff game like that against the Colts, only with even more time left.
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CutlerChris View Post
In the first playoff game, being a holder has nothing to do with being a QB. So fumbling the snap therefore has nothing to do with being an elite QB.
It's still his fault that they lost.

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In the second one, there were 9 seconds left in the game when he threw the pick. In that situation, his only hope is to throw it to the endzone and hope someone makes a play. Very few times does it actually work that way, and in this instance, it was picked. If he had thrown it short, his receiver gets tackled and the game ends. He had no choice. Hell, even Tom Brady "pissed away" a playoff game like that against the Colts, only with even more time left.
Except Marlin Jackson had to make a great pick on Brady. Romo should have never thrown the ball because the defender had inside coverage on the post. Elite QBs win playoff games, period.
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CutlerChris View Post
In the first playoff game, being a holder has nothing to do with being a QB. So fumbling the snap therefore has nothing to do with being an elite QB.

In the second one, there were 9 seconds left in the game when he threw the pick. In that situation, his only hope is to throw it to the endzone and hope someone makes a play. Very few times does it actually work that way, and in this instance, it was picked. If he had thrown it short, his receiver gets tackled and the game ends. He had no choice. Hell, even Tom Brady "pissed away" a playoff game like that against the Colts, only with even more time left.
No, but if you want the accolades as a player, then when things get messed up on your watch it's your fault. You rep that over and over every day during practice, and no excuse for that in a key spot in a game.

9 seconds is basically 2 plays, factoring 6-7 seconds for a play. He threw it in double coverage which is his fault, not to mention, insteading of working hard and preparing he is in Cabo with his gf. I think it's more maturity and handling fame and going out with someone famous, and getting your priorities set in life. I understand you have a bye week but still prepare for your opponent and try to get better. You have the whole offseason to do whatever the hell you want to. That's why he is getting killed because of those things. He is no doubt a sick QB, but in big situations he has yet to prove he is elite.
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Old 09-24-2008, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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[quote=Geo;1226832]I guess I'll start it up again this week.

I had no problems with everything above this point.
  • Blasphemous as it may be to say, I don't think the Chargers lose a step when Darren Sproles replaces LaDainian Tomlinson. It's actually a gain imo, Sproles is even more dynamic and explosive. The one caveat being the passing game, where LDT is so accomplished as both a receiver (still very potent in this regard) as well as a pass protector for the quarterback.

I couldn't disagree more. Tomlinson can score TD's inside the red zone, Sproles will always have trouble doing that and if your counting on Sproles remaining healthy all season and carring the ball a substantial amount of the time, I doubt he survives. As a spot replacement Sproles can be a very effective player but to ask him to carry the load is beyond his capacity.
  • Eagles' '06 1st round pick DT Brodrick Bunkley didn't play a lick as a rookie, meanwhile the Eagles were 26th in the league in run defense (136.4 ypg and 4.5 ypc). Since becoming a starter from the start of '07, the Eagles dramatically improved to 7th best in the league at 95.8 ypg and 3.8 ypc. So far this season, they are first in the league with 45.7 ypg and 2.4 ypc after having played the Rams, Cowboys, and Steelers. Just maybe the big man is a part of that.

A lot of Philly's problems on defense stem from McNabb's injuries. Without McNabb at full strength, Philly has a hard time substaining drives and their defense is on the field a lot more. I do agree that Bunkley is a key ingredient in their improved defense but if McNabb goes down again, there will be a dropoff in their defensive performance. Stats can be very misleading.
  • Keep burying the Colts, pile that dirt and say farewell. Just know that the coffin will be empty if you check it later.

Harrison has the same surgery that Peyton and said it bothered him all of last season so I'm not expecting much from Indy this year. Next year will be a different story.
  • The losing team that most impressed me this week is the Bengals. They put up a much better fight against the defending Super Bowl champs, at Giants Stadium, than I anticipated. Without their best corner Jonathan Joseph and Dexter Jackson playing, they took the game into overtime where they unfortunately lost. But that showed me some real character and grit, which is good to see from the Bengals.

Here I think you are way off the ball. For the Giants this was a game where emotionally they were flat. Most of the team had already marked this down as a victory and played like it. Rotten football teams often upset winning teams in games like this one as their players view the game as their Super Bowl. I think you'll see Cincy fall back to its normal routine in its next game.
  • Reggie Bush has scored four total touchdowns, meanwhile the Houston Texans have scored three touchdowns. Trumpet that matter of early fact, ignorant haters.

Here I agree. Bush is going to score a lot of TD's and is a much better player overall than people give him credit for. However as a RB he is rather mediocre.
  • The Dallas Cowboys look like the best team in the league. They handled the Packers well this Sunday night, who proved they didn't need Brett Favre for them to continue losing to the Cowboys. Although maybe the Packers tweak a few things differently next time to their benefit, should they meet again in the postseason.

The only question seperating Dallas from being a top team is their playoff record. Until they elimate that doubt, you cannot really crown them just yet. It may well be their year but they have a lot to prove when it comes to the playoffs. Think San diego.
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Old 09-24-2008, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by diabsoule View Post
After two games it seems I have overrated Matt Cassel. There was a time when I thought he was a good backup quarterback and could be the next Matt Schaub but his play over the past two games has shown that he is nothing more than mediocre.
Diab, you know I respect you a lot, and I would agree with the whole "Matt Cassel is pretty mediocre" statement, but Matt Schaub? Schaub is a bum. Since becoming a starter:

13 GS, 2,500 yards, 10 TD, 14 INT (4-9 record)

He was also 0-2 with Atlanta, giving him a lifetime 4-11 record and 16 TDs to 20 INTs. I don't see how you can call Matt Cassel medicore and put Matt Schaub somewhere ahead of him.
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Old 09-25-2008, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
That's bull, we don't even use his ability as a receiver downfield, he's a dump off guy, and he's definitely not used well as a runner.
He's just not a good runner.

The Saints entire season last year was spent finding ways to get Reggie in space with the ball.

They aren't winning games! The Saints went to the playoffs two years ago because they could line up and run the ball down your throats. Brees wasn't throwing as often but when he was, he was making a much more impact plays. Heck, he easily could have won the MVP award that year. I don't hear anybody calling for Brees MVP with this "new-look" O.
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Old 09-25-2008, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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[quote=Iamcanadian;1228285]
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Originally Posted by Geo View Post
I
The only question seperating Dallas from being a top team is their playoff record. Until they elimate that doubt, you cannot really crown them just yet. It may well be their year but they have a lot to prove when it comes to the playoffs. Think San diego.
Oh I do, constantly. I agree that if SD got no respect despite a few AFC West Championships and stellar records, but no playoff wins, then Dallas shouldn't yet either. pfffft!!!

I am still pretty on the fence when it comes to Dallas--I think they are going to run into trouble if someone finally comes up with a plan to isolate T.O., and I don't mean like last week where he still has a huge impact on the game. That and a D that doesn't look like it's running quite on time and I have to say that it is simply too early in the season to be definite on anything in either direction.
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Old 09-25-2008, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
Tony Romo should def. be considered an elite QB. Yes, he'll make a few mistakes per game ala who? #4, Brett Favre. Tony has improved his play in the pocket a great deal but, he still has that gunslinger mentality and hates to give up on plays, so he'll force some throws. He's going to throw picks, that's just the type of player he is...he's a little Favre and a little Brady. You can nitpick here and there but, anyway you cut it, the guy is an elite QB.
I dont want to take anything away from Romo but i'm not ready to put him in the "elite" category. He's been playing behind the greatest o-line in the NFL since his debut in the league. He doesnt get the pressures and hits that Favre had to deal with all his career in Green Bay for instance. All the bonehead plays that Romo makes are when he's pressured like we've seen last sunday. Give him an average o-line (like the one in Green Bay) and average to no running game (like in Green Bay) and i'm pretty sure he'd have as many INT's as TD's. Heck, give Aaron Rodgers that kind of time in the pocket and he would put up Pro Bowl numbers.

Dont get me wrong he's a very good QB but that O-line of his is just too damn good.
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Old 09-25-2008, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Favre4ever View Post
I dont want to take anything away from Romo but i'm not ready to put him in the "elite" category. He's been playing behind the greatest o-line in the NFL since his debut in the league. He doesnt get the pressures and hits that Favre had to deal with all his career in Green Bay for instance. All the bonehead plays that Romo makes are when he's pressured like we've seen last sunday. Give him an average o-line (like the one in Green Bay) and average to no running game (like in Green Bay) and i'm pretty sure he'd have as many INT's as TD's. Heck, give Aaron Rodgers that kind of time in the pocket and he would put up Pro Bowl numbers.

Dont get me wrong he's a very good QB but that O-line of his is just too damn good.
His first year starting Romo had an average line. Flozell was back from a knee injury and was rusty to say the least, we didn't have Bigg Davis and even Colombo wasn't playing as goos as he's doing now.
The o-line play was vastly improved by Romo ability to escape from pressure that year.
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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He's just not a good runner.

The Saints entire season last year was spent finding ways to get Reggie in space with the ball.

They aren't winning games! The Saints went to the playoffs two years ago because they could line up and run the ball down your throats. Brees wasn't throwing as often but when he was, he was making a much more impact plays. Heck, he easily could have won the MVP award that year. I don't hear anybody calling for Brees MVP with this "new-look" O.

LOL, we aren't winning because our defense is getting blown away, you act like we are having trouble scoring. Seriously, people really shouldn't comment on the Saints, it's clear that most see very little, if any.

And no, the Saints entire season last year was gimmick plays, and swing passes.
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Old 09-25-2008, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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Romo pretty much did everything on his own when he took over for Bledsoe. That line was incredibly shaky, that 1st season he was really praised for his escapability and ability to make plays out of the pocket. That was his reputation at the time but, he has since vastly imrpoved his play in the pocket. In fact, near the end of that season is when he started struggling because, teams were doing everything possible to keep him from moving around. The guy has seen his game improve significantly in three years...he's still going to make those boneheaded throws from time to time, hey Favre still makes them. He's in that mold, it's who he is, it's going to happen. But anyway, as far as indivisual performance goes, throwing winning out of the equation, the guy is an elite QB. Winning/playoff wins dont equate to how elite a player is in my book. Peyton was certainly an elite QB before his 1st playoff win and Tony is in the same boat, imo.
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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Diab, you know I respect you a lot, and I would agree with the whole "Matt Cassel is pretty mediocre" statement, but Matt Schaub? Schaub is a bum. Since becoming a starter:

13 GS, 2,500 yards, 10 TD, 14 INT (4-9 record)

He was also 0-2 with Atlanta, giving him a lifetime 4-11 record and 16 TDs to 20 INTs. I don't see how you can call Matt Cassel medicore and put Matt Schaub somewhere ahead of him.

Ah, Matt Schaub. That's was a fun scam we pulled.
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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I'm not writing off Schaub, the Texans had some tough match-ups to start the season. Are people really surprised he struggled at Tennessee? Plus that doesn't count Andre Johnson dropping a touchdown catch, and I heard he dropped another one on top of that.

Way too soon to be talking about the hook, let's see what Schaub can do once the Texans schedule picks up.

They probably would have executed poorly against Baltimore in Week 2 as well, but delaying the game to Week 10 might actually be a blessing. The Ravens defense might be a little banged up then, plus Dunta Robinson could be back then.

Should be very interesting to see what becomes of the Texans. Currently at 0-2, they play at Jacksonville (they could get the win though imo) and then host Indy in Week 5.
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Old 09-26-2008, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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time would stop and the entire planet would just be struck in immense awe of how so much awesomeness can be together in about a 10 yard radius. With this, Scott Wright would use it to perfectly time his capture of Carmen San Diego AND Waldo, because he knows where they are.

UNLESS, Scott was at this game and had a field pass. THEN, the entire world would start raining Krispy Kreme glazed donuts, all hot girls would refuse to wear clothes, Arrested Development would come back on the air, Heath Leadger would rise from the dead just for a batman sequel, and Pepsi would start making pepsi blue again.
We must make the second scenario happen, it would be a perfect world.
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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I dont want to take anything away from Romo but i'm not ready to put him in the "elite" category. He's been playing behind the greatest o-line in the NFL since his debut in the league. He doesnt get the pressures and hits that Favre had to deal with all his career in Green Bay for instance. All the bonehead plays that Romo makes are when he's pressured like we've seen last sunday. Give him an average o-line (like the one in Green Bay) and average to no running game (like in Green Bay) and i'm pretty sure he'd have as many INT's as TD's. Heck, give Aaron Rodgers that kind of time in the pocket and he would put up Pro Bowl numbers.

Dont get me wrong he's a very good QB but that O-line of his is just too damn good.


Funny how thats everyone sees it now, nobody remembers when Bledsoe was the QB getting hammered every time we dropped back to pass, our sack rate was something ridiculous, it wasn't until Romo got thrown out there did the sack rate start to drop because of his pocket presence.


As far as the playoff game stuff, how many QB's won a playoff game in their first 2 trips? The list is pretty short, people want to be so critical with Romo and put all the blame of those losses of him because he's the QB...Sniper you know better then to act like that Seattle game had ANY bearing on how he plays the QB position, he actually played that game pretty damn well for a guy who had been starting half the season and on the bench for the first half...The second game he lost, like CutlerChris said it was picked but we needed a TD so nobody was worrying about the stats, but lets be honest that Giants defense was on a roll..Why can't we give them their credit, this is the same defense that frustrated the "greatest team ever" and Tom Brady, but Romo can get bashed for losing that game? Sounds a little biased to me.


I agree Tony needs a playoff win before being considered elite and that's fine, but those losses were hardly a result because of him, people can point to how many mistakes he makes but he has had no problem driving us down at the end of a game to win it on the final drive...I'll be first in line to call him a choker or say he's not elite if we have a 1st rd exit this year though, it's been long enough for everyone and time for the excuses to stop.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 09-27-2008, 02:35 AM    (permalink
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Funny how thats everyone sees it now, nobody remembers when Bledsoe was the QB getting hammered every time we dropped back to pass, our sack rate was something ridiculous, it wasn't until Romo got thrown out there did the sack rate start to drop because of his pocket presence.
Romo in 2006 was sacked 21 times in basically 10 1/2 games.
Drew Bledsoe in 2006 was sacked 16 times in 5 1/2 games.
It dropped by about a sack a game.
However, in 2007, the Cowboys added Leonard Davis, and that sure helped immensly.
Cowboys have a fantastic, bruising OL and that sure as hell helps with Romo's success. Its not all Romo, and its not all the OL.
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Old 09-27-2008, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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Awesome.
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Old 09-27-2008, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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Holy **** that's crazy. Wow. Man-beast.
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Old 09-27-2008, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Turner's been smashing for a long time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6aPPuuPeCc
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Old 09-27-2008, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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Elite QBs win playoff games, period.
The most frustrating misconception ever imagined.
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Old 09-27-2008, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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I don't think you should use the QBs win whatever argument, unless you go more in depth.

I'll use a homer example, because I've seen Delhomme play a really average game (03 against Dallas) and the team still won, and then there have been games where he masterfully executed the offense and it was really the reason the team won (chicago 05), or came close (New England in the SB).

But Delhomme didn't lose the Superbowl for the Panthers, and he didn't lose the game specifically against the seahawks in the 05 NFCCG.

You've got to look at the games and the scores and the stats and everything in between before declaring a QB isn't good in the postseason.
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Old 09-27-2008, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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I don't know, the playoffs are a different animal, and how QBs perform under do-or-die pressure should definitely be factored into overall judgements of their talents. Maybe playoff wins shouldn't be the measuring stick, but general performance definitely needs to be.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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I'll agree with that. Then again you really need to watch games to deduce a performance because stats almost never show you the whole story.
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