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Old 10-13-2008, 06:22 PM    (permalink
BamaFalcon59
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Elite- Owens, Moss, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson
Excellent (can become elite)- Anquan Boldin, Brandon marshall, Roddy White, Steve Smith, Ocho Cinco, etc etc
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Old 10-13-2008, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
Elite- Owens, Moss, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson
Excellent (can become elite)- Anquan Boldin, Brandon marshall, Roddy White, Steve Smith, Ocho Cinco, etc etc
Andre Johnson can't be elite and Steve Smith not be, Johnson hasn't done anything in his career to be in that class and while I agree with the previous notion that production doesn't have to equal elite status, I expect an elite receiver to have hit 1000 more often than not in your career and he's yet to do that.
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Old 10-13-2008, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
Elite- Owens, Moss, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson
Excellent (can become elite)- Anquan Boldin, Brandon marshall, Roddy White, Steve Smith, Ocho Cinco, etc etc
Chad piled up yards but I don't think he'll ever become elite. He's not close to any of the elite recievers mentioned and he's 30. Unless he goes somewhere and gets his act together he'll never make it.
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Old 10-13-2008, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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When can Jennings (the man leading the NFL right now) get his own thread about being Elite? I have a feeling he's going to be Driver all over again Mr. underrated. Which is perfectly fine.

This leads to the question, best "young" wide out? White, Jennings, Marshall, Colston, Bowe, or others?
Jennings is not a sexy pick, but he will eventually get his due. Rogers to Jennings is beginning to look like one of those hook-ups that we will hear for quite a long time. I would go as far to say as he may be one of the top 5 deep threats in the league. The only problem with Jennings is that he does not have elite size, strength and is not an ideal redzone target and most of his TD's are the result of long completions. I will say this, Jennings is one of the most clutch WRs in the league and I would want him over most in a go-to situation. Consider this, 32% of this TD's came on 3rd downs and long (6+ yards to go).

Also to answer your question. Best young wideout, Marshall. On paper they are all similar. But just watching him play, he is just on a whole different level. He seems to be already dominant while the others are still getting good.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
Chad piled up yards but I don't think he'll ever become elite. He's not close to any of the elite recievers mentioned and he's 30. Unless he goes somewhere and gets his act together he'll never make it.
I'd love to know how you average 1300 yds, 90 receptions, and 9 TD's over a 6 year span and your not elite, please enlighten me...I'd love to know how much better and consistent you need to be, hate him or love him Chad still runs some of the best routes in the league with elite speed and quickness...Chad reminds me alot of Reggie Wayne in the type of WR he is, I'm not going to take him out of the elite class of WR's because of the crap going on in cincy and his shoulder injury...Even TJ's stats suck this year.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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I'd love to know how you average 1300 yds, 90 receptions, and 9 TD's over a 6 year span and your not elite, please enlighten me...I'd love to know how much better and consistent you need to be, hate him or love him Chad still runs some of the best routes in the league with elite speed and quickness...Chad reminds me alot of Reggie Wayne in the type of WR he is, I'm not going to take him out of the elite class of WR's because of the crap going on in cincy and his shoulder injury...Even TJ's stats suck this year.
Great QB and a very good number 2 WR. Forced to throw the ball because not a great running game. Now i'm in no means saying he's not very very good but very very good is not quite elite.
As for this year, I know thats not a true reflection of his talent, I just don't think he gets near his previous numbers unless he gets a change of scenery. If Ocho Cinco went to Dalls I would see his yards go up but probably not his TDs
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Great QB and a very good number 2 WR. Forced to throw the ball because not a great running game. Now i'm in no means saying he's not very very good but very very good is not quite elite.
As for this year, I know thats not a true reflection of his talent, I just don't think he gets near his previous numbers unless he gets a change of scenery. If Ocho Cinco went to Dalls I would see his yards go up but probably not his TDs

You do realize that over the years Chad has been the one double covered right? It's not like he's been beating the #2 corner and single coverage his whole career, that's about legit as you can get...Having a good QB? Well guess that just makes Reggie Wayne a good WR.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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I'd at least put Lee Evans in that second tier of WRs. He's been one hell of a deep threat over his career. If he had the benefit of having QBs other than Losman and Edwardshe'd have even better numbers.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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You do realize that over the years Chad has been the one double covered right? It's not like he's been beating the #2 corner and single coverage his whole career, that's about legit as you can get...Having a good QB? Well guess that just makes Reggie Wayne a good WR.

Yea I was referring to Housh as the number 2. And I don't count Reggie Wayne as elite either
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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Maybe not this season but to say that Chad Johnson has not been an elite receiver is ridiculous.

And to say it's because of his QB and #2 WR is even more ridiculous.

Is Marvin Harrison not an elite talent all of those years because of Peyton?

Was Jerry Rice not elite because of Terrell Owens across from him and because of Steve Young?
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:41 PM    (permalink
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I think Reggie Wayne is elite.
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Old 10-13-2008, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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I dunno, there are a LOT of good receivers in the NFL right now...

Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Larry Fitzgerald
Lee Evans
Anquan Boldin
Roddy White
Brandon Marshall
Braylon Edwards
Steve Smith
Marques Colston
Roy Williams
Calvin Johnson
Torry Holt
Greg Jennings
Plaxico Burress
Chad Johnson
T.J. Houshmanzadeh
Hines Ward
Wes Welker
Andre Johnson
Marvin Harrison
Reggie Wayne
Dwayne Bowe
Donald Driver


Theres a LOT of competition among the top receivers in the game right now. Its way too hard to make a complete list of the top receivers in the game with this many talented receivers.
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
Elite- Owens, Moss, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson
Excellent (can become elite)- Anquan Boldin, Brandon marshall, Roddy White, Steve Smith, Ocho Cinco, etc etc
I realize you said ect and I really feel like I'm beating a dead packer homer horse here, but I just can't get over Jennings not getting any credit from some people. Jennings has outproduced White and Marshall the past two years and is working on another right now. I don't think he's elite( or becoming) or whatever the hell you want to call it, but if those cats are up there you damn well gotta put Jennings in. Not to mention Colston as well.
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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I dunno, there are a LOT of good receivers in the NFL right now...

Randy Moss
Terrell Owens
Larry Fitzgerald

Lee Evans
Anquan Boldin
Roddy White
Brandon Marshall
Braylon Edwards
Steve Smith
Marques Colston
Roy Williams
Calvin Johnson
Torry Holt
Greg Jennings
Plaxico Burress
Chad Johnson
T.J. Houshmanzadeh
Hines Ward
Wes Welker
Andre Johnson
Marvin Harrison
Reggie Wayne
Dwayne Bowe
Donald Driver


Theres a LOT of competition among the top receivers in the game right now. Its way too hard to make a complete list of the top receivers in the game with this many talented receivers.
I bolded the ones who I think are clearly, right now, better than Roddy White. Boldin, White, Marshall, Smith, Colston, Jennings, Roy Williams, Calvin Johnson, and Burress are those in the second tier. I put Calvin Johnson in there purely because of talent.
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:06 PM    (permalink
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I realize you said ect and I really feel like I'm beating a dead packer homer horse here, but I just can't get over Jennings not getting any credit from some people. Jennings has outproduced White and Marshall the past two years and is working on another right now. I don't think he's elite( or becoming) or whatever the hell you want to call it, but if those cats are up there you damn well gotta put Jennings in. Not to mention Colston as well.
I said etc etc. Check what I said in the post above this. White, Colston, and Jennings are all right in that somewhat big second tier.
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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I realize you said ect and I really feel like I'm beating a dead packer homer horse here, but I just can't get over Jennings not getting any credit from some people. Jennings has outproduced White and Marshall the past two years and is working on another right now. I don't think he's elite( or becoming) or whatever the hell you want to call it, but if those cats are up there you damn well gotta put Jennings in. Not to mention Colston as well.
I think Jennings is underrated because of size.

I mean...it's really the only difference between him and many others there. He's not as impressive phsyically as someone like AJ or Marshall.

Colston seems to have been forgotten simply because of the ridiculous amount of WR talent thats exploded while he's been hurt. Shiny new toy syndrome...plus Brees' success without him kinda makes losing him a little less obvious.
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Colston is forgotten he just hasn't been a factor this season so far. When he comes back and starts making plays again the chatter will start up again. His game, not to mention his career path, is still extremely impressive.
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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If you want a comparison for Roddy White, a more athletic Hines Ward is the best one i have heard. There is no real player he reminds me of...he is extremely balanced

On top of everything else he is a top 3 blocking WR as well
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Old 10-13-2008, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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I think Owens, Moss, and Fitzgerald are all elite. I'd probably put Reggie Wayne in that group as well. I'd like to include Steve Smith, but I think he needs to finish the season strong to prove he's still elite.

Braylon Edwards looks like an elite receiver sometimes, but he looks like he doesn't deserve to be starting at other times. I can't call him elite, he's too inconsistent. Greg Jennings and Brandon Marshall can get there in a year or two, but they're not there yet.

After those guys is where Andre Johnson, Anquan Boldin, Roddy White, Marques Colston, and T.J. Houshmandzadeh lie in the next tier.
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Old 10-13-2008, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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If you want a comparison for Roddy White, a more athletic Hines Ward is the best one i have heard. There is no real player he reminds me of...he is extremely balanced

On top of everything else he is a top 3 blocking WR as well
He reminds me of Terrell Owens. Gets open easily, great athlete, great size, physical, great blocker, drops some easy passes.
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Old 10-13-2008, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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Elite: Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Larry Fitzgerald.

Tier 2: Brandon Marshall, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Reggie Wayne, Marques Colston

Tier 3: Anquan Boldin, Roddy White, Greg Jennings, TJ Housh, others.

I know I am forgetting some people, but as of now, thats how I look at it. You can count on the elite guys to dominate ANY game. You look at their QB's stats and see a couple TDs? You know 1 of them went to one of those guys. Tier 2 will put up solid numbers every single week and some dominant performances. Tier 3 is on the verge of being tier 2. They will put up solid performances with a couple of dominant ones, but sometimes they might just slip off.

As for Roddy White, he is only getting better. I like what you said about him not having any glaring weaknesses and the Terrell Owen connection applies. He is not nearly as physical as him, but he is still very physical. He can catch the deep ball or take a short route deep. He does a great job blocking and the only thing he can do better is to not drop any balls. He is getting there. He is also starting to make some spectacular grabs, which I might have considered a problem for him earlier. Big time players make big time grabs and White was not one of those guys. This year though, he is all over the place.

Also another thing. Last year there was a statistic on WR's against top competition. White was one of the few (if not the best) WRs who was consistent in his performance against all competition. He was good against bad competition and good against good competition. There were some guys who racked up a ton of yards against bad CBs but did average-below average against better CBs. White was not one of them. Maybe I will find that statistic.
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Old 10-13-2008, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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Elite: Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Larry Fitzgerald.

Tier 2: Brandon Marshall, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith, Reggie Wayne, Marques Colston

Tier 3: Anquan Boldin, Roddy White, Greg Jennings, TJ Housh, others
I don't get that. How can people put Brandon Marshall a tier above Jennings. Both are in their third season, both had big years last year, both are complete receivers, but Jennings has been better. You can't even use the lame QB argument because Marshall has Cutler. I don't have a problem if you put them on the same tier, but to put Marshall on whole different level is ridiculous.

The only reasoning seems to be Marshall has the great size, but Jennings can be and has been just as good or better than Marshall without the size.
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Old 10-13-2008, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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I don't get that. How can people put Brandon Marshall a tier above Jennings. Both are in their third season, both had big years last year, both are complete receivers, but Jennings has been better. You can't even use the lame QB argument because Marshall has Cutler. I don't have a problem if you put them on the same tier, but to put Marshall on whole different level is ridiculous.

The only reasoning seems to be Marshall has the great size, but Jennings can be and has been just as good or better than Marshall without the size.
Chill out dude, not everyone is infatuated with the Packers like you are. There's plenty of Jennings fans, but don't get mad at people for thinking Marshall is better. It's not that hard of an argument to make.

Edit - The only thing i see wrong there is the Marques Colston pick. He's not a second tier receiver in my book (judging by who else is in those tiers). I'd take Marshall and Boldin in a split second over Colston.
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Old 10-13-2008, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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Ditto. Boldin has to be in that second tier.
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Old 10-13-2008, 10:01 PM    (permalink
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I think Reggie Wayne is elite.
I do as well, I think some guys rate elite WR's differently, some think you have to run a 4.2, be 6'4 and 210+ lbs, Wayne has shown he is elite and you can't hold having Peyton as a QB against him, just watch the guy play...Precision routes, arguably the best hands in the game, the big catch he made vs Houston was one that elite WR's make point blank, I really don't understand how much better he would have to be to be considered elite.
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