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Old 11-06-2008, 08:50 AM    (permalink
BlindSite
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It doesn't take that long to turn a team around, but until Al Davis relinquishes control, its going to be impossible to do.
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:59 AM    (permalink
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This thread makes me realize my Chiefs aren't really that bad just having a down year.:)
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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Cardinals might have had a worse 10-15 years, but who honestly thinks they're worse off than the Raiders?
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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I'll take Al Davis over William Clay Ford any day of the week. Oakland may be a joke the last few years of Al's life, WCF has been a joke since he owned the team. H...mmm, 1 playoff appearance in 50+ years vs Al Davis's career record.
When WCF retires, the Lions will have zero talent on the team, when Davis dies, the new owner will probably have a pretty decent team to build upon.
The owner of the Bengals at least has some excuses for being a bad owner, Cincy is a very small city which provides their owner with minimal revenues upon which to build the team. He is known as being cheap but I think it has more to do with revenues than simply not wanting to spend money. Cincy has a very low budget for scouting and even the firing of a HC is affected by the cost of paying 2 HC's at the same time.
WCF on the other hand owns a team in one of the best markets in North America and revenues has never been a problem yet our scouting department is the worst in pro football??? WCF is by definition, the perfect example of the worst owner in sports. I think you can buy a share in the Ford Motor Company for about $2.10 a share on today's market. So the Lions aren't the only business he's driven into the ground.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
I'll take Al Davis over William Clay Ford any day of the week. Oakland may be a joke the last few years of Al's life, WCF has been a joke since he owned the team. H...mmm, 1 playoff appearance in 50+ years vs Al Davis's career record.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I wouldn't go that far. Davis definitely has the better track record, but right now I wouldn't trade Ford for Davis going forward.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by awfullyquiet View Post
I feel hopeful for the lions and chiefs and even the bungles...

but the raiders? i don't feel that hope.

there is no precedence for if owners destroy a franchise... what is to be done? does goodell HAVE to interceed sometime, if not soon, when? do you just let the raiders spiral into cap hell and mismanagement? or how about just let them fall into blackout land (sorry raiders fans)...

Is this situation that bad? Has there ever been a situation THIS bad? or is this simply a sign of the times overreacting?
There was an article a couple months back that talked about a potential solution to the Al Davis problem. The writer suggested the minority shareholders might be able to take some action due to his terrible mismanagement potentially costing them profits. He suggested they take a case to Goodell, who could potentially take some type of action to remove Al Davis at that point. Of course, even the writer acknowledged any scenario where Al Davis is no longer in total control of the Raiders before his death is a longshot.

And yes, the situation is that bad. The worst thing about bad owners is you can't replace them. Bad players can be replaced, sometimes almost immediately depending on the investment made in said player. Bad coaches can be replaced, their effect may linger for a little while (most believe it takes 3 years for a coach to install his own system), but it won't stay for very long. Even a bad GM can be replaced, and while his bad decisions usually will linger longer (especially for a team that picked high in the draft often), the team will eventually purge themselves of those bad decisions. A bad owner, however, cannot be replaced, short of death or sale of the team. Usually these owners for different reasons (in Davis's case, the inability to perceive reality and the need for control) will consistently put underqualified or unqualified people into positions they should never be in, expect success, and (depending on the owner) be surprised/angry when they get failure. That is why there will be no cycle of success for the Raiders in the NFL until Al Davis is somehow removed from power.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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I don't think it's the responsibility of the league to determine the 'when' either. Might as well remain in the middle ground and let the problem fix itself. If it gets to a point where Al Davis is embarrassing the league and clearly shows he is not competent enough to run a franchise, then that's when the league or other owners can step in. Sadly, until then, i think it's out of their hands.
How many losing seasons does that take? I know it would have to be quite a few, as the NFL never tried to take action against Bob Irsay.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
There was an article a couple months back that talked about a potential solution to the Al Davis problem. The writer suggested the minority shareholders might be able to take some action due to his terrible mismanagement potentially costing them profits. He suggested they take a case to Goodell, who could potentially take some type of action to remove Al Davis at that point. Of course, even the writer acknowledged any scenario where Al Davis is no longer in total control of the Raiders before his death is a longshot.

And yes, the situation is that bad. The worst thing about bad owners is you can't replace them. Bad players can be replaced, sometimes almost immediately depending on the investment made in said player. Bad coaches can be replaced, their effect may linger for a little while (most believe it takes 3 years for a coach to install his own system), but it won't stay for very long. Even a bad GM can be replaced, and while his bad decisions usually will linger longer (especially for a team that picked high in the draft often), the team will eventually purge themselves of those bad decisions. A bad owner, however, cannot be replaced, short of death or sale of the team. Usually these owners for different reasons (in Davis's case, the inability to perceive reality and the need for control) will consistently put underqualified or unqualified people into positions they should never be in, expect success, and (depending on the owner) be surprised/angry when they get failure. That is why there will be no cycle of success for the Raiders in the NFL until Al Davis is somehow removed from power.
http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...highlight=coup
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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I think all owners have a desire to win. Some have this desire more than others. I think Jerry Jones would throw a ridiculous amount of money into his franchise if it guaranteed him a victory. I also think Jerry Jones knows how good winning is for the franchise.

With that being said, I believe that Al Davis' desire to win is extremely strong. The guy would literally do anything to win. The problem is, he seems to stubborn & stupid to find a solution to this franchise' problems. Meanwhile, when he tries to fix this team's problems he ends up just creating more of a mess for them.

As far as Mike Brown and the Bengals go: he's cheap, and he won't win **** till we get lucky in the draft a couple more times like we did with Palmer.
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
I'll take Al Davis over William Clay Ford any day of the week. Oakland may be a joke the last few years of Al's life, WCF has been a joke since he owned the team. H...mmm, 1 playoff appearance in 50+ years vs Al Davis's career record.
When WCF retires, the Lions will have zero talent on the team, when Davis dies, the new owner will probably have a pretty decent team to build upon.
The owner of the Bengals at least has some excuses for being a bad owner, Cincy is a very small city which provides their owner with minimal revenues upon which to build the team. He is known as being cheap but I think it has more to do with revenues than simply not wanting to spend money. Cincy has a very low budget for scouting and even the firing of a HC is affected by the cost of paying 2 HC's at the same time.
WCF on the other hand owns a team in one of the best markets in North America and revenues has never been a problem yet our scouting department is the worst in pro football??? WCF is by definition, the perfect example of the worst owner in sports. I think you can buy a share in the Ford Motor Company for about $2.10 a share on today's market. So the Lions aren't the only business he's driven into the ground.
Fords major problem is that he makes poor upper management decisions. The Lions have never had much talent because their front office has always been one of the worst in the NFL for a long time. Fords problem is he sticks with guy that he hires. Which can sometimes pay off over the long haul, but the down side is Ford sticks with the guys even when it's very clear that what their doing is not working nor does it look like their going to be successful (i.e Matt Millen)

As for Davis and the Raiders.... Davis does not give anyone time to have success. He doesn't believe in hiring a GM and when he hires a coach if he has one bad season Davis cans them. He needs to give guys time and mabye admitt that he's not doing a good job with the personnel decisions.
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