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Old 11-14-2008, 04:04 AM    (permalink
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Default Matt Cassel vs (Original) Tom Brady

Anybody remember what Tom Brady played like before he scored a million touchdowns in a year? I've seen a few games Cassel has played (recently) and he looks alot like the Tom Brady i remember. You know, that guy who threw efficient short passes to everyone and anyone on the field.. a "game manager" whatever that means.. a clutch performer etc. Tom got better, so im not saying they're the same, but it absolutely looks to me that if cassel played 7 years in the patriots offense (and under the coaching staff) that he could be nearly every bit the player tom brady is today. The argument I always made with Peyton vs Brady was that you knew Peyton was gifted coming out of college.. It's why he was drafted so high. Peyton could have litterally gone anywhere and succeeded. Brady wasn't like that, he is today, but not when he was drafted. He happened to be on the perfect team for him and he reached his fullest potential and now hes maybe the greatest quarterback to ever play. But Cassel looks like he is the exact same player Brady was, and I think he could be just as good. He won't get his chance, so I'll never know but for now all I'd rather know is...

Is this a fair assessment?
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:06 AM    (permalink
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How do you expect me to focus on your assessment when you got that avy ? Dayuuuuum. :)
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:52 AM    (permalink
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Cassell could get his chance after this year since he is a FA. What I have liked out of him is that it looks like he's gotten better with each game. He's becoming more comfortable with the offense, even when he's had his top running backs go down with injury. With that being said, I don't think there can be a comparison between Brady and Cassell. It looks like Brady has better deep ball accuracy along with a bigger arm.
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Old 11-14-2008, 07:41 AM    (permalink
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I cannot make a judgement here. Two different styles and two different teams. If I was to start Brady from 02 or this years Cassel with a team from Scratch I would go with Cassel. He could do more on his own than needing a team of coaches and other solid players around him. But that is going with 8 years backing up learning the system. Even without stepping on the field his junior year in college you could say he was a top 10 QB in college. Guy was a solid prospect with a ton of ablity and never got his chance.

But with that....

I had to think this over again lol. Hmmmm I dunno. Myabe I'd go with Tyler Thigpen

Wait let me think about this again.

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I have no fricken clue.
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Old 11-14-2008, 08:50 AM    (permalink
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Someone is going to throw a lot of money at Cassell during the offseason. He's proven he can be an effective game manager and now he's starting to make big plays. Minnesota maybe? He would push them over the top.
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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Someone is going to throw a lot of money at Cassell during the offseason. He's proven he can be an effective game manager and now he's starting to make big plays. Minnesota maybe? He would push them over the top.
I was thinking the Titans with Collins getting up there in age.....
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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Brady...and it isn't even close. Not even in the same stratosphere. The way they're being used is similar, but Brady did it with FAR less help on offense. Matt Cassel has Randy Moss and he doesn't know how to use him. Old Tom Brady would struggle with it as well, but he damn sure wouldn't miss Randy Moss streaking by a corner near as often as Cassel does. He puts up decent numbers...but those few plays hurt us more than he helps.

Does he have a chance to progress? Yeah. He's a talented guy. Somebody should bring him in for sure. I'm not sure I would count on him. The team that brings him in should have another guy they like ready for sure.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Yatta! View Post
Someone is going to throw a lot of money at Cassell during the offseason. He's proven he can be an effective game manager and now he's starting to make big plays. Minnesota maybe? He would push them over the top.
I will laugh my behind off if Minnesota overpays for him, which some team will do.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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I imagine some will unfortunately have a hard time with this, because they can't get past Brady playing in his 8th NFL season last year. Brady first played in his second NFL season, Cassel in his fourth NFL season.

And right now, Cassel looks just like Brady did in their respective first seasons. Probably better on last night alone, and this is all without Charlie Weis and having Drew Bledsoe/Tom Brady there at meetings. But we'll see if Cassel progresses like Brady, that's the biggest attribute of Brady in his career, how he's progressed.

Cassel has definitely shown more than Matt Schaub did when the Texans acquired him. I think Minnesota is a great idea, maybe moreso than San Fran.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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I imagine some will unfortunately have a hard time with this, because they can't get past Brady playing in his 8th NFL season last year. Brady first played in his second NFL season, Cassel in his fourth NFL season.
Cassel also hadn't taken a snap since High School before this season.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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Cassel also hadn't taken a snap since High School before this season.
He's taken plenty of snaps, but he just hasn't started.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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He's taken plenty of snaps, but he just hasn't started.
When I say a snap I mean a meaningful one not one in practice or just to give Brady a water break.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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He's taken snaps in games before. Last year he took many snaps in the actual season.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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You know what I meant
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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You know what I meant
Todd are you aware that Justin Morneau wears your jersey under his Twins jersey during games?
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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I imagine some will unfortunately have a hard time with this, because they can't get past Brady playing in his 8th NFL season last year. Brady first played in his second NFL season, Cassel in his fourth NFL season.

And right now, Cassel looks just like Brady did in their respective first seasons. Probably better on last night alone, and this is all without Charlie Weis and having Drew Bledsoe/Tom Brady there at meetings. But we'll see if Cassel progresses like Brady, that's the biggest attribute of Brady in his career, how he's progressed.
But it's also with about ten times the supporting cast. The only thing Cassel has on Brady's first season is yardage. That's not surprising either. Brady threw 413 passes in 2001. Cassel is on pace to throw 500+. The offense and the style we play is completely different.

I'm not trying to deny that Cassel has been pretty good. But the numbers have made him look a lot better than he actually is.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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Someone is going to throw a lot of money at Cassell during the offseason. He's proven he can be an effective game manager and now he's starting to make big plays. Minnesota maybe? He would push them over the top.
If Cassell continues to play well NE will not beable to sign him just for the reason you stated above. Cassell will go to the team that's going to give him a good payday. I think that Matt has been playing so well this year because of the coaching staff that he's got bringing him along. If Cassell goes some where else I have a hard time seeing him becoming a good QB in this league. Some will make a bad investment in Matt Cassell in the 2009 offseason.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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Cassell certainly looks pretty good now, so much better than he did early in the season where he seemed scared to throw the ball. He definitely has a better supporting cast than Brady did, but Brady had a much better defense too. Its really a toss up, because I don't think enough people realize how much better Tom Brady got, and it wasn't just him becoming more comfortable. His Arm strength looked like it doubled last year.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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Troy Brown was a Pro Bowl receiver in 2001, I'm glad someone actually recalls that. And the Patriots did have solid though unspecatular talent then too, David Patten in his prime, Antowain Smith ('97 1st round pick of the Bills, I remember him coming up in Buffalo), Kevin Faulk.

But I think it's fair to say that the '08 Patriots have much better offensive talent, not RB but the OL and the receivers.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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and 1/47 the coaching.

further, is randy moss tripping or starting off deep routes at a jog (not to mention falling down at the merest hint of contact) really an improvement over troy brown going balls to the wall on every play? seems like selective memory.
Yes, actually. That's not taking into account that Wes Welker is playing the same exact game that Troy Brown was playing in 2001 either. So is Randy Moss better than David Patten?

I wouldn't say the coaching is far behind either. Charlie Weis is a great offensive coach. He made Brady. Josh McDaniels really isn't that far behind though, and he played a critical role in making Brady as well.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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The Jets are ranked 27th in Passing Yards per game. I think people are blowing up one game a bit. Remember when Rex Grossman was an MVP candidate. Let's give him a full season or 2 before claiming how well he will be.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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The Jets are ranked 27th in Passing Yards per game. I think people are blowing up one game a bit. Remember when Rex Grossman was an MVP candidate. Let's give him a full season or 2 before claiming how well he will be.
The Jets defense was also responsible for the rise of Tyler Thigpen.

In Tom Brady's first, limited offense year, he found a way to lead us to a Super Bowl victory and be the MVP of that game.

In his second year, he led the AFC in touchdown passes. Cassel...won't do that. Ever.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
wes welker is not currently a pro bowl player though he DID have a comparable year last year. randy moss has had one great year out of his last 5. the rest, he's spent most of his time failing to try. would i currently rather have david patten and antowain smith (1100 yards) over a randy moss who won't run and whatever garbage you decide to start on sunday at rb? yes. unequivocally. unless moss decides he wants to try (on the TD reception) he's utterly not worth having on the field, in spite of all the ridiculous stat love he got last season.
Well, that's you sir. I'm sure you can find plenty of David Patten's and Antowain Smith's in free agency. They'll be more than happy to play for whoever.

Give me Randy and his crap. I'll take that along with the deep ball.

Oh, and you're right about Welker not being a Pro Bowler...but he' doing the EXACT same stuff Troy Brown was doing in 2001 and putting up the exact same numbers. It's almost eerie how similar they are.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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the deep ball he's refused to run the last few games or the deep ball cassell's currently 0 for his last 22 (iirc) on, in part because moss has started off nearly every fade route at a 50% jog? either way, sounds like a solid plan to me.
I'm not going to deny that Randy hasn't been as motivated as he was last season, but he's not the only guy. The only guy on our offense who's playing as well as they did last year is Wes Welker.

I don't know what you're watching as far as the deep ball goes, but I've seen him absolutely blow by guys more than a few times this year and Cassel flatout miss him. You give Brady the same plays and he probably completes a more than half of them.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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anyone think the pats might tag cassell to trade him?
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