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Old 11-13-2008, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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Exactly. If he played in a strong defensive conference like the SEC or Big Ten it would be easier to look past the numbers. However, no one in the Big XII plays any defense. Freeman's overall season numbers aren't even that impressive even before you consider that he has 8 TD and 0 INT against North Texas, Montana State, and Louisiana-Lafayette.
Have you watched a game of his? He has absolutely no O-Line. He can barely drop back without being flushed from the pocket.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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Exactly. If he played in a strong defensive conference like the SEC or Big Ten it would be easier to look past the numbers. However, no one in the Big XII plays any defense. Freeman's overall season numbers aren't even that impressive even before you consider that he has 8 TD and 0 INT against North Texas, Montana State, and Louisiana-Lafayette.
Eh I don't know if you can throw that in as part of the argument, I mean Matt Ryan didn't have a great completion percentage playing in the ACC last year and throughout his collegiate career.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by draftguru151 View Post
It has mostly to do with mythbusta/starheather overrating him by a ridiculous amount. If it weren't for that people would see him for what he is, a guy with amazing tools that hasn't put it all together, opposed to everyone hating on him because mythbusta is annoying.
Exactly. When one group, or person, deifies a prospect, the rest of the people have to focus on his weaknesses in order to poke holes in it. Case in point: Reggie Bush. Some people thought he would light the league on fire from day one. Actually, that was MOST people. They crucified Houston for taking Mario over him. Myself and others were called haters for simply pointing out he wasn't Marshall Faulk or LDT, and saying at best he'd be a rich man's Brian Westbrook. Of course, West wasn't as good as he is now, but still.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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I think a better example would be Jordy. :p
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:55 PM    (permalink
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I was under the impression he ran about 4.85 at his LSU pro day and he looks heavier these days. If you say he's mobile fine by me.
He's not Vince Young type of mobile. Brady Quinn is closer to VY than Russell is, in terms of mobility. But from his last year at LSU, I could see, he had amazing pocket mobility, in the mold of a Brady or Manning. Quinn, his senior year, lacked that to an extent.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:58 PM    (permalink
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2. reasons

1.mythbusta/starheather
2. doesnt play for usc, oklahoma or florida ohio st thus cannot possibly be good because the only good nfl players come from there because everyone that goes there is automatically the best player ever.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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2. doesnt play for usc, oklahoma or florida ohio st thus cannot possibly be good because the only good nfl players come from there because everyone that goes there is automatically the best player ever.
Dude are you stupid?

you're forgetting Texas
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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Dude are you stupid?

you're forgetting Texas
Ha gotta love the white font
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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Dude are you stupid?

you're forgetting Texas
lol the white font is very clever

.....somethin the joker would think of
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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Eh I don't know if you can throw that in as part of the argument, I mean Matt Ryan didn't have a great completion percentage playing in the ACC last year and throughout his collegiate career.
I think your missing the point. Matt Ryan at least had decent numbers. Freeman has done nothing as a passer against any decent team this year.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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Even though Matt Ryan didn't have a great completion percentage against the ACC, he still put up good yardage and touchdown numbers. More importantly; he won games. I really don't like when people bring up Matt Ryan when a guy has bad numbers though. First of all, I would dispute that he actually had bad numbers considering the number of passes he threw and the talent around him. Secondly, because of the talent he had, that season was absolutely freaky. Nobody has done more as a passer with less in recent memory. It's really not a good standard to judge a quarterback on.

As far as Freeman goes, he's been pretty damned awful in conference play. Most of the games I've seen him play have been conference ones as well...so my opinion of him is kinda skewed because of that. Still, with everybody else torching the Big XII, he doesn't have any excuses. His supporting cast might be the worst of out all the guys there, but still.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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Not to mention playing in the Big 12 is a quarterbacks dream, they all throw for 300 yards and 3 touchdowns every game because of the lack of defense in that conference. Ryan at least played in a conference with legit defenses.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Freeman plays in the Big 12 but his stats don't compare of other Big 12 QBs because he has less talent on his team and he plays in a pro style offense not a spread like everyone else in the confrence. I wouldn't take him over Bradford but I would definitely over McCoy, Harrel, Robinson, Daniel.
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Old 11-14-2008, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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Freeman plays in the Big 12 but his stats don't compare of other Big 12 QBs because he has less talent on his team and he plays in a pro style offense not a spread like everyone else in the confrence. I wouldn't take him over Bradford but I would definitely over McCoy, Harrel, Robinson, Daniel.
His stats are non-existant. Thats the point he has done nothing in conference play. It's not that they don't measure up to the other QBs in that league its the fact that they are so bad. They are poor, the guy has not proved a thing in college football yet people want to talk about him as this great 1st round prospect.
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Old 11-14-2008, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Not to mention playing in the Big 12 is a quarterbacks dream, they all throw for 300 yards and 3 touchdowns every game because of the lack of defense in that conference. Ryan at least played in a conference with legit defenses.
callin ACC defenses legit is kind of a stretch...
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Old 11-14-2008, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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His stats are non-existant. Thats the point he has done nothing in conference play. It's not that they don't measure up to the other QBs in that league its the fact that they are so bad. They are poor, the guy has not proved a thing in college football yet people want to talk about him as this great 1st round prospect.
I don't think he is a first rounder yet. But he should atleast be a second round pick and I would draft him over Tebow, Mccoy, Harrel, Etc
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Old 11-14-2008, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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callin ACC defenses legit is kind of a stretch...
Ya well in comparison to Big 12 they are. He beat a good Va Tech defense.

Also I would take Tebow over Freeman anyday. Freeman is a project, he is going to need a lot of time before he develops into a NFL QB. Tebow will need some time but I think he is way more prepared to play in the NFL. I'm pretty sure he is the type of guy that would have suceeded in any type offense he ran in college.
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Old 11-14-2008, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Ya well in comparison to Big 12 they are. He beat a good Va Tech defense.

Also I would take Tebow over Freeman anyday. Freeman is a project, he is going to need a lot of time before he develops into a NFL QB. Tebow will need some time but I think he is way more prepared to play in the NFL. I'm pretty sure he is the type of guy that would have suceeded in any type offense he ran in college.
maybe well more prepared to play tight end!
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Old 11-14-2008, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Ya well in comparison to Big 12 they are. He beat a good Va Tech defense.

Also I would take Tebow over Freeman anyday. Freeman is a project, he is going to need a lot of time before he develops into a NFL QB. Tebow will need some time but I think he is way more prepared to play in the NFL. I'm pretty sure he is the type of guy that would have suceeded in any type offense he ran in college.
Tebow is more of a project. Freeman comes from a pro style offense where he has to dropback, read coverage and make NFL throws. He also has experience in the play action game. Also with Freeman's size,arm strength and a quick release he has more of an upside.
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Old 11-14-2008, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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I see where you guys are coming from with Tebow and I respect the difference of opinions. I see Tebow as a football player who would do great anywhere and in any offense he played in. I'm far more impressed with him thus far than Freeman. I think Freeman is all measurables with no substance...yet.
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Old 11-14-2008, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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Tebow is more of a project. Freeman comes from a pro style offense where he has to dropback, read coverage and make NFL throws. He also has experience in the play action game. Also with Freeman's size,arm strength and a quick release he has more of an upside.
agree with you 110%. i honestly hate tebow as a QB he is not good. he has the best skill guys in the country and that makes him look a hell of alot better than he is.
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Old 11-14-2008, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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I see where you guys are coming from with Tebow and I respect the difference of opinions. I see Tebow as a football player who would do great anywhere and in any offense he played in. I'm far more impressed with him thus far than Freeman. I think Freeman is all measurables with no substance...yet.
I love Tebow, but he's going to need a season just to fix his mechanics and footwork, and then almost a another full season to get used to making NFL reads
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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His stats are non-existant. Thats the point he has done nothing in conference play. It's not that they don't measure up to the other QBs in that league its the fact that they are so bad. They are poor, the guy has not proved a thing in college football yet people want to talk about him as this great 1st round prospect.

I wouldnt say his stats are non existant. Last year he was a 63% passer when he had a legit threat in Jordy Nelson and this year he's in the high 50s range with less talent around him. I'm not that high on him but his numbers are decent, i would be more worried about deep ball accuracy and decision making.
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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I love Tebow, but he's going to need a season just to fix his mechanics and footwork, and then almost a another full season to get used to making NFL reads
i just think people are expecting more out of him than they did out of Alex Smith.

Alex was much better fundamentally than Tebow is.
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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Well you have to account for the fact Tebow has proven his skills as a football player for almost 3 years in one of the best conferences in the nation.
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