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Old 11-13-2008, 09:03 AM    (permalink
awfullyquiet
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stiller View Post
I know what normalization is. I'm a Comp Sci major...

My point was... There was still 9 sacks against us, why are we discrediting it for normalization.
Because a statistical outlier? Is it unfair to say 'if you took out that one bad game, we don't look that bad?'...

like say you shut out 15 of 16 this year and scored 4td's a game. but in that 16th game, you give up 450 points (i know, it's ridiculous... but bear with me)... and statisitically you end up looking like you scored 450-450. is it fair to say the last game is a fluke and attempt to normalize the curve?

people do it with baseball. i think it can be done with football.
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Old 11-13-2008, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SNIPER26 View Post
So not on Long? Awesomeness!
Big Jake has only given up 2.5 sacks through 9 games. That's not too bad for a rookie who needs to improve pass protection.
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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deleting posts gets old. iloxygenil is NOT worth this much discussion. move on.
that is the way to be a better man njx. i applaude you!
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Old 11-13-2008, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by P-L View Post
Big Jake has only given up 2.5 sacks through 9 games. That's not too bad for a rookie who needs to improve pass protection.
There are ways to help a rookie out as well as your whole OL by running a quick passing game and protection. Factor in the wildcat offense and you very easily can make the whole OL better with certain playcalling.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
it's a bit easier to do it with 162 games, where trends can be somewhat easier to identify over a season. i don't buy that normalization (except in extreme examples like yours) is a very effective analytical tool with such a small sample size.
oh i agree. i'm just attempting to give them the benifit of the doubt on that thrashing.

you could even take out the worst game for each of those teams, and suddenly the steelers move up into a more respectable range for attempts/sack whereas the lions, kc, oakland, sanfran and the patriots end up near the bottom of the barrel.
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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I really don't think anyone has attacked Abraham. People have just repeatedly said he is not the best DE in the league. Many of us have even stated that he is probably no lower than top 5. I do not see how that is attacking him. Yet another Falcons homer is acting like we are though so by his responses I can see how something would think people are attacking Abraham.

I'd really love for someone to find where I called Abraham the best defensive in the league. I said he's been the best in the league so far. 9 games. Slightly more then half a season, that's all.
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Old 11-13-2008, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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I'd really love for someone to find where I called Abraham the best defensive in the league. I said he's been the best in the league so far. 9 games. Slightly more then half a season, that's all.
well u are saying he is the best DE this season? and thats where people disagree too
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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I'd really love for someone to find where I called Abraham the best defensive in the league. I said he's been the best in the league so far. 9 games. Slightly more then half a season, that's all.
sure.

i'm pretty sure there's been a lot of of things that don't make sense through week 10. we're half way through the season... as far as this half, yeah. he's been up there. but is he the top defensive end in the nfl? no. which was the OP's question. but then again, it has been known that he suffers from a second half drop off...
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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Statistical outliers are generally used in a lot of sports, its a big jump, but don't you guys realise that the best and worst scores aren't counted in gymnastics and diving.

Hell, there's plenty of games that raise the point anyway. Who really thinks that Tampa is only a point better than Kansas City, or for that matter, thinks Tampa is 20 points better than Carolina.
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Statistical outliers are generally used in a lot of sports, its a big jump, but don't you guys realise that the best and worst scores aren't counted in gymnastics and diving.

Hell, there's plenty of games that raise the point anyway. Who really thinks that Tampa is only a point better than Kansas City, or for that matter, thinks Tampa is 20 points better than Carolina.
KC is 19 points better than Carolina with Thigpenzzzzzz
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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Because a statistical outlier? Is it unfair to say 'if you took out that one bad game, we don't look that bad?'...

like say you shut out 15 of 16 this year and scored 4td's a game. but in that 16th game, you give up 450 points (i know, it's ridiculous... but bear with me)... and statisitically you end up looking like you scored 450-450. is it fair to say the last game is a fluke and attempt to normalize the curve?

people do it with baseball. i think it can be done with football.
I don't think you can discount outliers in football because the sample size is so small to begin with. 16 games+playoffs is still not that much. Using that formula the Pats had a 100% winning percentage last year because the outlier got thrown out.
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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I don't think you can discount outliers in football because the sample size is so small to begin with. 16 games+playoffs is still not that much. Using that formula the Pats had a 100% winning percentage last year because the outlier got thrown out.
on a smaller scale? yeah you can.

i'm talking this particular situation right here. called 'throwing out one bad game' (of which, we're talking the pitt-phil game)... which, i'm making the case, IF you threw that game out, the situation would look much different.

i do agree that 16 games isn't that much. but, you work with what you have.

edit: can we start a worst pass blocking team thread?
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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on a smaller scale? yeah you can.

i'm talking this particular situation right here. called 'throwing out one bad game' (of which, we're talking the pitt-phil game)... which, i'm making the case, IF you threw that game out, the situation would look much different.

i do agree that 16 games isn't that much. but, you work with what you have.

edit: can we start a worst pass blocking team thread?
The Oakland Raiders already have a whole team discussion thread.
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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The Oakland Raiders already have a whole team discussion thread.
that was harsh. the lions are still worse though. i'm suprised godman kitna even made it to this year.
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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that was harsh. the lions are still worse though. i'm suprised godman kitna even made it to this year.
Eh, I think the Lions should win a game this season before we start considering them an NFL team. :P

PS: Watch them beat the Titans on Thanksgiving now.
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Haloti Ngata > EVERYONE (Including DT's) Yeah I said it.
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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Eh, I think the Lions should win a game this season before we start considering them an NFL team. :P

PS: Watch them beat the Titans on Thanksgiving now.
i know. but instead i'll watch what i call 'the great flood of detroit'
where haynesworth gets 13 sacks all by pushing everyone on the interior so far back they fall into... cpepz/orlovsky/stanton
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Tuck was kind of invisible against Philly this past week. Not saying he's not good, I'm just surprised.
Just because he didnt get a sack does not mean he was invisible. McNabb was doing a lot of 3 step drops and quick releases to try and negate the giants pass rush and Tuck was one of the main reasons that the giants held Westbrook to 13 carries for 26 yards (2 yards per carry). He was very active in the run game and forcing Westbrook back inside
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Old 11-15-2008, 01:09 AM    (permalink
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Just because he didnt get a sack does not mean he was invisible. McNabb was doing a lot of 3 step drops and quick releases to try and negate the giants pass rush and Tuck was one of the main reasons that the giants held Westbrook to 13 carries for 26 yards (2 yards per carry). He was very active in the run game and forcing Westbrook back inside
Philly did a great job minimize the effect of our pass rush with their short drops, we were getting some pressure, but McNabb was getting the ball out asap.
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