2009 Pro Bowl: Redskins vs AFC

[Jimmy]

Originally Posted by regoob2

I watched Abraham get dominated all game by John ******* St Clair. Abraham is overrated and needs to be more consistent to even be considered for the pro bowl.

i'm sorry, but to say john abraham isn't playing at a pro bowl level is absolutely absurd. you can argue all you want that he isn't playing constistently, but the fact is he's playing better then 95% of the defensive ends in football right now, and idk what merits consistency, but that fact right there means he is a pro bowl caliber player.

[regoob2]

Originally Posted by Jimmy

i'm sorry, but to say john abraham isn't playing at a pro bowl level is absolutely absurd. you can argue all you want that he isn't playing constistently, but the fact is he's playing better then 95% of the defensive ends in football right now, and idk what merits consistency, but that fact right there means he is a pro bowl caliber player.

What fact??? All you listed was an opinion. The fact that 8 of his sacks came against the Raiders, Lions and Chiefs doesnt do it for me. He's invisible against even decent OTs. Pro bowlers play better against top competition. Abraham doesn't do that.

[Menardo75]

The best game I saw him have against top line OT's was Jamal Brown.

[Draft King]

Originally Posted by regoob2

What fact??? All you listed was an opinion. The fact that 8 of his sacks came against the Raiders, Lions and Chiefs doesnt do it for me. He's invisible against even decent OTs. Pro bowlers play better against top competition. Abraham doesn't do that.

You and A Perfect Score or either joking or have no idea what you're talking about. At least you're man enough to say this in the thread though, Perfect Score will just send messages through neg rep and then hide.

[regoob2]

Originally Posted by Draft King

You and A Perfect Score or either joking or have no idea what you're talking about. At least you're man enough to say this in the thread though, Perfect Score will just send messages through neg rep and then hide.

Ive never seen him make a sack all year. I guess ive only watched his bad games.

[Bohleive]

I listen to the local Skins station, which Snyder owns incidentally, and essentially, he not only has all the local personalities tell people to stuff the ballot, but practically runs ads saying the same thing. It's pretty obnoxious. I can't tell you how many times I've heard, vote for all the redskins, and, you can vote as many times as you want.

[Menardo75]

Originally Posted by Bohleive

I listen to the local Skins station, which Snyder owns incidentally, and essentially, he not only has all the local personalities tell people to stuff the ballot, but practically runs ads saying the same thing. It's pretty obnoxious. I can't tell you how many times I've heard, vote for all the redskins, and, you can vote as many times as you want.

I wonder if Al Davis does the same thing.

[BlindSite]

Abraham, and Peppers would be my De starters this year in the NFC

[d34ng3l021]

Originally Posted by regoob2

What fact??? All you listed was an opinion. The fact that 8 of his sacks came against the Raiders, Lions and Chiefs doesnt do it for me. He's invisible against even decent OTs. Pro bowlers play better against top competition. Abraham doesn't do that.

I do not know what you are talking about. Just because he doesn't get sacks against top competition doesn't make him 'invisible.' I highly doubt that you have seen him play in other games than the Bears game so you really shouldn't be talking about Abraham and how he doesn't deserve to be in the pro bowl or how he isn't playing like one of the best DEs in the NFL. The fact that he plays only about 50%-60% of the snaps and is 2.5 sacks away from the league lead is very impressive. He nearly constantly brings pressure from his side and forces the QB to step up and avoid the rush. Its not his fault that no one on the Falcons DL is consistently capable of getting to the QB and getting sacks.

Once again: sacks are not the be-all end-all statistic for DEs. Watch the player perform consistently for the entire season if you are going to make a judgment on how his year has been, because otherwise you might just look stupid.

[Jughead10]

Originally Posted by d34ng3l021

I do not know what you are talking about. Just because he doesn't get sacks against top competition doesn't make him 'invisible.' I highly doubt that you have seen him play in other games than the Bears game so you really shouldn't be talking about Abraham and how he doesn't deserve to be in the pro bowl or how he isn't playing like one of the best DEs in the NFL. The fact that he plays only about 50%-60% of the snaps and is 2.5 sacks away from the league lead is very impressive. He nearly constantly brings pressure from his side and forces the QB to step up and avoid the rush. Its not his fault that no one on the Falcons DL is consistently capable of getting to the QB and getting sacks.

Once again: sacks are not the be-all end-all statistic for DEs. Watch the player perform consistently for the entire season if you are going to make a judgment on how his year has been, because otherwise you might just look stupid.

Here's a good question. Why is he only playing 50%-60% of the snaps? Is he only being used in certain situations because certain parts of his game are lacking?

[d34ng3l021]

Originally Posted by Jughead10

Here's a good question. Why is he only playing 50%-60% of the snaps? Is he only being used in certain situations because certain parts of his game are lacking?

I am not 100% sure. I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with parts of his game lacking, but just its just a matter of giving him rest so when he does play, he is good to go and increases his impact. This also reduces the chance of injury, which is nice.

[Jughead10]

Originally Posted by d34ng3l021

I am not 100% sure. I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with parts of his game lacking, but just its just a matter of giving him rest so when he does play, he is good to go and increases his impact. This also reduces the chance of injury, which is nice.

Is he taking snaps off in more running situations?

[d34ng3l021]

Originally Posted by Jughead10

Is he taking snaps off in more running situations?

I wouldn't be able to tell you cause I have not noticed whether he is playing or not (I have looked up articles talking about how he is taking less snaps and none of them say), but I would assume that if he were to take snaps off, it would more likely be in running situations, because pass rushing is his forte. It wouldnt make sense to take snaps off in passing situations for him.

Throughout Abraham's career, there have been two knocks on him. One is that he gets hurt too much, and the other is that he's not strong enough against the run. The first is true, to an extent -- he has missed quite a few games over the course of his career, although he's started all five this year and started all 16 last year. But the second? I saw no evidence of that at all on Sunday.

That is an article talking about John Abraham and his game against the Packers. It can be found here.

[yodapoop]

Got to start my voting for Oshimingoo Atogwe!

[andyjo672]

Originally Posted by aNYtitan

Ummm, how can a player on the ballot be leading the next highest candidate by 143% of the vote?

Technically, to lead by 143% means that you would have 2.43 votes for every 1 vote the next highest got as 100% more votes would be double, so 2 to 1, and 143% more is 1+1+.43. Thats how.

[LonghornsLegend]

I found it really tough to vote for a safety, in either conference, unless you just wanted to give it to a big name that hasn't really played that well this year.

[fenikz]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

I found it really tough to vote for a safety, in either conference, unless you just wanted to give it to a big name that hasn't really played that well this year.

Really? Adrian Wilson has been playing amazing

[Shane P. Hallam]

Originally Posted by fenikz

Really? Adrian Wilson has been playing amazing

He was knocked out for a few games though.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Here is something I found on our MB

Randy Thomas stared in puzzled silence at the numbers for the longest time, then finally starting laughing. If the Pro Bowl voting were to end right now, the veteran right guard would be on his way to Hawaii - along with 19 of his Washington Redskins teammates.

"You've got to be kidding me,'' Thomas said. "Wow.''

So far, it's the Redskins in a burgundy state landslide. Fans have responded in droves to an aggressive get-out-the-vote campaign conducted by one of the most market-savvy teams in the NFL, putting virtually everyone in the lineup - even those who haven't played much or have played well below Pro Bowl caliber - ahead of the pack in the NFC.

"It's a surprise,'' said Khary Campbell - that's right, Khary Campbell - who has a lead of more than 2-to-1 over his nearest competitor in voting for special teams specialist. "But I'm happy to see our fans showing the overwhelming support they do have for us.''

The Redskins' campaign has been so effective that the NFL felt the need to raise the issue in an e-mail sent last week to the digital media departments of all 32 teams by George Scott, the league's general manager, club sites, at NFL Digital Media.

"As it stands right now, the Redskins are leading the NFC ballots in 16 of 19 positions,'' said the e-mail, a copy of which was provided to The Associated Press. "It's no surprise, given that they have been promoting this all season long. ... This would be a great weekend to promote Pro Bowl voting to your fans. Let me know if you need any ideas or support from the league (or the Redskins) in this important initiative.''

Right now, eight of the 11 NFC starters on both offense and defense would be Redskins, plus all four special teams players. Shawn Springs, who has missed six games with injuries, is the leading vote-getter at cornerback. Mike Sellers has one-third of the votes for fullback, giving him a huge margin over his nearest competitor, Madison Hedgecock of the New York Giants. The Giants are 9-1, but their only vote leader is defensive end Justin Tuck.

That's not to say all 20 Redskins are shoo-ins. Fan voting on nfl.com continues through Dec. 9, and it counts for only one-third of the total. Then the coaches and players are polled separately, each counting for one-third.

But some of the leads - including Sellers' - are so large they could be tough to surmount under the complex formula the NFL uses for apportioning votes. The situation is somewhat reminiscent of last season, when the ever-popular Dallas Cowboys sent 13 players to Hawaii.

At least those Cowboys were a 13-3 team. The Redskins' decent but not spectacular record of 6-4 makes the overload of Pro Bowl love almost embarrassing, especially for a candid veteran such as Thomas, who frankly admitted he didn't think he was playing at an all-star level.

"I guess I'm critical of myself,'' Thomas said, "but I can always play better than what I'm been doing.''

The showering of votes represents another coup for Redskins owner Dan Snyder, whose marketing ploys have been far more successful than his football moves. In the spirit of the national presidential campaign, the team launched "Vote the Redskins Ticket'' in October, featuring Hall of Fame legends Sonny Jurgensen and Sam Huff. They were the first two faces greeting anyone who visited the team's Web site, and they graced the cover of the program at a recent home game.

"We encouraged our fans to vote for the Pro Bowl, and they responded in record numbers,'' team spokesman Zack Bolno said. "Our fans are always enthusiastic and supportive of the Redskins and they demonstrated their passion by voting for their favorite players.''

The general concept was hardly a new one. Teams from all the major sports have been encouraging their fans to stuff all-star ballot boxes for decades, resulting in some absurd selections.

While flattered by the support from their fans, many Redskins agreed the votes from the coaches and players carry more credence. Ryan Plackemeier, the leading vote-getter among punters despite ranking 18th in average yards per kick, knows there's a good chance he's not going to stay at the top.

"I think having a big marketing thing can make a big difference if you're second or third and they (the fans) get you into first,'' Plackemeier said. "I don't know if you're in the middle-of-the-pack kind of thing they can bump you all the way up to first, but we'll see.''

Besides, now that word is out the Redskins are dominating the voting, jealous fans across the country will take notice.

"Once other teams catch on,'' Plackemeier said, "they'll get some more votes for their guys.''

[SeanTaylorRIP]

I hate how every damn media outlet says that the Skins would have 19 starters if voting ended today. The pro bowl is not determined solely on fan voting!!! If pro bowl voting ended today, the Skins would have 5 pro bowlers max, I guarantee.

[Mr. Stiller]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

I found it really tough to vote for a safety, in either conference, unless you just wanted to give it to a big name that hasn't really played that well this year.

Polamalu?

He is playing absolutely insane this season. Had 2 of the greatest INT's I've ever seen (In the "HOW THE **** DID HE DO THAT?!?" sense)

And he's just crushing teams.

I think if you're saying he hasn't played well this year you haven't seen him play. Troy didn't deserve it last year, but this year he certainly does.

[Mr. Stiller]

I'd like to thank Daniel Snyder for not making FA a joke this season only to turn around and make the pro-bowl even more of a joke. Hats off to you sir.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP

I hate how every damn media outlet says that the Skins would have 19 starters if voting ended today. The pro bowl is not determined solely on fan voting!!! If pro bowl voting ended today, the Skins would have 5 pro bowlers max, I guarantee.

Yeah but think of it this way.. Whatever formula they use and the # of fan votes for the players still impact it. They used Sellers as an example above. Even if it counts for 1/3, that 1/3 will be a high # because it seems like your whole fan base was intent on screwing the pro bowl up and making it even more of a joke.

[fenikz]

Originally Posted by JBond93

He was knocked out for a few games though.

I don't see your point, Q was too and he is a lock

[CashmoneyDrew]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

I found it really tough to vote for a safety, in either conference, unless you just wanted to give it to a big name that hasn't really played that well this year.

Chris Hope and Michael Griffin are pretty awesome.