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Old 02-13-2007, 08:11 PM    (permalink
Cwood8899
 
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Default Re: Oh learned ones...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevelandDave
I've gotta say that I've enjoyed reading all (most) of your stuff, gents. Lots of interesting analysis.

Since you all are way ahead of me on the details, I'd like to get your feedback on a few items. Hopefully, you'll make it all clear to someone who's more overview oriented

1. I read a piece lately that pins Quinn's poor performance in meaningful games on his team. The old "he had to pass all day 'cause they had no D and his O-line had him hurried against strong Ds" take. Do you think that this situation differs much from what he'd have with the Brownies?

2. Are you giving up on Droughns when he had 1,000+ in '05? Do you think he's that degraded in one year or was it the O-line in 2006? With our O-line, would AP have more success than a veteran NFL 1,000 rusher?

3. Arguably, our biggest impact player on D is Wimbley. Even if you don't think so for '06, he will be soon. He's all upside. We grabbed him at 13, right? This draft isn't so weak that it's all in the top 5, is it?

Most of you want the impact O player, Quinn or Petersen but can this O-line be fixed enough in FA and 1 pick per round that they won't be a waste? Bad O-line = Couch/Green....Good O-line = Kosar-Sipe/Mack-Byner
Are all those questions rhetorical?

Because if they aren't...
1) No, but just because he didn't fulfill expectations, doesn't mean he's bad.
2) We also need to bring in a new studly back to take over when he's done.
3)More like Top 8

I'm only 16 so I don't really know about the O-Lines of the past so I can't really answer the question.

BTW...How would you feel if we had that draft...\/ \/ \/ \/

And what would you think if we got </\</\</\</\</\</\< /\ helmets as like an alternate every so often.
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Old 02-13-2007, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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After thinking about it for a while i think this would be the best scenario for the browns.

1. Raiders-JaMarcus Russel
2. Lions-Adrian Peterson (after they hear Kevin Jones is out until midseason)

If we are sitting at 3 I see the Vikings trading up and choosing Calvin. Now in this trade we concede Joe Thomas to the Bucs or Cardinals but i like our options at 7. We would pick up draft picks for the trade which we could put to good use and we would also get a good player. In this scenario we would most likely have Brady Quinn or Alan Branch to choose from. Im a supporter of Quinn so i would like that but Alan Branch is really growing on me. He is a reach in my opinon at 3, but at 7 i think he would be a great pick. First we need to win the coin toss to get more leverage and if we do win, the trade options open up hopefully giving us more picks while still drafting a big time player in hte 1st
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Old 02-13-2007, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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Well i should have done some more research. Now im reading Jones will be back by week 1. But i still like that trade if Peterson is not available for us
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Old 02-13-2007, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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Default Re: Oh learned ones...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevelandDave
I've gotta say that I've enjoyed reading all (most) of your stuff, gents. Lots of interesting analysis.

Since you all are way ahead of me on the details, I'd like to get your feedback on a few items. Hopefully, you'll make it all clear to someone who's more overview oriented

1. I read a piece lately that pins Quinn's poor performance in meaningful games on his team. The old "he had to pass all day 'cause they had no D and his O-line had him hurried against strong Ds" take. Do you think that this situation differs much from what he'd have with the Brownies?

2. Are you giving up on Droughns when he had 1,000+ in '05? Do you think he's that degraded in one year or was it the O-line in 2006? With our O-line, would AP have more success than a veteran NFL 1,000 rusher?

3. Arguably, our biggest impact player on D is Wimbley. Even if you don't think so for '06, he will be soon. He's all upside. We grabbed him at 13, right? This draft isn't so weak that it's all in the top 5, is it?

Most of you want the impact O player, Quinn or Petersen but can this O-line be fixed enough in FA and 1 pick per round that they won't be a waste? Bad O-line = Couch/Green....Good O-line = Kosar-Sipe/Mack-Byner
1. Quinn's performance in big games is related to his team. he doenst have all-pro talent surounding him. if he were to come to clevelend, the only thing that would hold him back would be our O-line.

2. personally, i'm not giving up on droughns, but AP is to hard to pass on. droughns isnt that good, he just runs ppl over. he'd be a sweet FB. thats about it. AP is better in every aspect except for duriblility, and that is becoming a concern with droughns as he isnt gettin younger.

3. this draft is very top heavy. most will agree to that. and most of us have come to agree that a trade down with the viks would be completly possible.

we really only need two guards. if we got one good one(steinbech/Deilman) and one decent, then we would be to a good start. also, whatch for one of the younger players to take over that other spot(sowells, smith, matua)

Quote:
Question for everyone: I really wanted to get Lavar last year over Willie but that didn't happen. Any chance we make a offer to him this year and get him a little cheaper? I really think he fits the bill of an OLB in the 3-4 and would have another year to learn from Willie.
i think we would go after adalius thomas first, if anything since he did get drafted by savage. but, IMO, we wont sign another starting LB this year.
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Old 02-14-2007, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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Most of you want the impact O player, Quinn or Petersen but can this O-line be fixed enough in FA and 1 pick per round that they won't be a waste? Bad O-line = Couch/Green....Good O-line = Kosar-Sipe/Mack-Byner

So why is everyone against taking thomas?

And how do you do the white box thing?
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Old 02-14-2007, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyHall#1
Most of you want the impact O player, Quinn or Petersen but can this O-line be fixed enough in FA and 1 pick per round that they won't be a waste? Bad O-line = Couch/Green....Good O-line = Kosar-Sipe/Mack-Byner

So why is everyone against taking thomas?

And how do you do the white box thing?
you do the white box thing by clicking "quote" in the upper right hand corner of everyone's post. or, when you start a new post, at the top is say's "qoute" then paste the discussion the click "qoute" again.

i'm against taking thomas b/c we dont need a tackle. we needs guards.
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Old 02-14-2007, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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Yes, this line could be fixed through FA. I think our main problems were LG and RT. Davidson was one of the main reasons why Andruzzi continued to start throughout the length of the season. Enter: Dielman, Steinbach, or Dockery in FA. Center is a question, I believe they will resign Fraley or sign Gurode (spelling). RT is currently Kelly Butler's job. Even though Tucker has told Crennel that he will return in '07, who knows what his health status is, so I expect a draft pick project to legitimately contest Butler for the job. While Butler wasn't terrible, he proved that he isn't really starting material at RT and could use some competition. Overall, our major concerns are at LG and RT. LG can be fixed in FA, and RT can either be fixed in FA (sign tra thomas) or within day one of the draft (ugoh/staley/marten). It will be intersting to see how the center issue develops. I'm sure Bentley won't return in '07, but I wonder what Phil will say at his combine presser anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if a guy like Kalil is drafted rd2 to fill our center void, thus moving Bentley to RG when he returns in '08. Overall, we've got a lot of options to improve it, and surely a draft pick like Quinn or Peterson will not be a "waste".
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Old 02-14-2007, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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Would you give a 4rth round pick for David Carr, to give Frye some competiton?
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Old 02-14-2007, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMontainya
Would you give a 4rth round pick for David Carr, to give Frye some competiton?
yes
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Old 02-14-2007, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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sign Kris Dielman in FA, along with Fraley and Turdell Sands (DE).

Trade our 4rth for David Carr. (might take 3rd?)

RD
1-Adrian Peterson
2-Victor Abiamiri
3-Johnny Lee Higgins
5-bpa
6-bpa
7-Stanley Daughty

Sounds good to me.
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Old 02-14-2007, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snazel
Yes, this line could be fixed through FA. I think our main problems were LG and RT. Davidson was one of the main reasons why Andruzzi continued to start throughout the length of the season. Enter: Dielman, Steinbach, or Dockery in FA. Center is a question, I believe they will resign Fraley or sign Gurode (spelling). RT is currently Kelly Butler's job. Even though Tucker has told Crennel that he will return in '07, who knows what his health status is, so I expect a draft pick project to legitimately contest Butler for the job. While Butler wasn't terrible, he proved that he isn't really starting material at RT and could use some competition. Overall, our major concerns are at LG and RT. LG can be fixed in FA, and RT can either be fixed in FA (sign tra thomas) or within day one of the draft (ugoh/staley/marten). It will be intersting to see how the center issue develops. I'm sure Bentley won't return in '07, but I wonder what Phil will say at his combine presser anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if a guy like Kalil is drafted rd2 to fill our center void, thus moving Bentley to RG when he returns in '08. Overall, we've got a lot of options to improve it, and surely a draft pick like Quinn or Peterson will not be a "waste".
Hank Fraley is solid at center and only looked bad because of the people around him, so resigning him would be a good start. Signing a G in FA (preferably Dielman) and drafting Thomas would make our o-line one of the 5 best in the league, even without Bentley. Thomas would move Schaffer to RT where I believe he is a better fit anyway, thus filling our major needs at LG and RT.

These changes in the o-line will undoubtedly make Frye and Droughns look better, although droughns is getting old. (see my 3rd round pick)
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Old 02-14-2007, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Signing a G in FA (preferably Dielman) and drafting Thomas would make our o-line one of the 5 best in the league, even without Bentley.
I really doubt that. Maybe with Bentley, and they all have time to adjust to each other (acouple seasons).


Its hard to believe Duce McCalister and Droughns are the same age, Drougns has alot less milage, but McCalister isnt going down hill and Drougns is?
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Old 02-14-2007, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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Question for everyone: I really wanted to get Lavar last year over Willie but that didn't happen. Any chance we make a offer to him this year and get him a little cheaper? I really think he fits the bill of an OLB in the 3-4 and would have another year to learn from Willie.


Also I think if we traded for Carr we could use the 3/4 pick for the 8th pick and Carr. That way if 1 of the top QBs are still on the board they could draft them. Also it would seem that we could draft AD still if we are @ 8.


thoughts?
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Old 02-14-2007, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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HAHAHA some kid i know at school bet me $10 that the Browns would draft Jamarcus Russell. :D
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Old 02-14-2007, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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I'm going to post my thoughts for our offseason since I've been putting it off for quite some time.

First, free agency. We need to acquire a guard, preferably Kris Dielman. Joe Andruzzi is horrid and Dielman is not only younger, but he is a far better player. We would of course bring Fraley back, and I'm not sure yet about Coleman. He's ok, but probably better as a backup.

I'd like to see us attempt to sign Nate Clements. I know he wants a lot of money, but we've got money, and he would prevent last season's depth problems from resurfacing. We'd have Clements, Bodden, McCutcheon, Holly, and probably Minter. That sounds good to me. I know we have Baxter, but it's going to be a LONG TIME before he suits up again.

It would also be nice to sign a DE. Our run D is atrocious, and we lost quite a few games this year because people ran us over. I personally want Terdell Sands to play DE for us. He's MASSIVE and strong, specializes in stopping the run, and would allow our linebackers more space to roam and make plays.

I think these three additions alone would help us greatly going into next year. Note that I didn't say we would be an amazing team, just that these guys would help us get better in areas of need.

This is my Free Agency post. I'll put up my draft ideas in another post. I don't want to write my whole offseason in one post.
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Old 02-14-2007, 09:13 PM    (permalink
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Ok, now here's my draft ideas. First, this is all hypothetical, so please don't hang me if I bring up an idea that you don't agree with.

Assuming we win the coin toss and pick 3rd, a trade may be possible. However, since I don't feel like speculating about draft trades right now, I'll leave trades out for the time being.

So, here are a couple draft scenarios that I personally like.
#1
1st-Adrian Peterson
2nd-Joe Staley or Ben Grubbs
3rd-DE, maybe Ray McDonald or Ryan Mcbean or something.
4th-BPA
5th-David Ball, you probably all think I'm crazy, but this guy just plays receiver the way it was meant to be played. He also does something that our receivers seem to have trouble with, holding onto the ball.
6th-Stanley Doughty?, apparently we should get this guy? I keep seeing other people wanting us to get him. I dunno, I thought BPA.
7th-BPA or Project player

This draft would give us a stud RB, someone to block for him, some defensive line help, and a couple of other possible contributors.

#2
1st-Alan Branch
2nd-Joe Staley or Ben Grubbs
3rd-Dan Bazuin
4th-Kareem Brown or Antonio Johnson
5th-David Ball
6th-Best OT or OG available (Depending on who was chosen in the 2nd)
7th-BPA or Project player

This draft is the ultimate in unsexiness. This is not going to bring fans to the stadium, but it beefs up the trenches, and that's where we are the weakest.

This is just my first round of draft ideas. I've been writing a thesis paper and haven't been up to date on the latest things with prospects, but once the combine is over I'll post another scenario including possible trades.

Please give thoughts, I'd like to bring this board to life.
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Old 02-14-2007, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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Default Re: Oh learned ones...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevelandDave
I've gotta say that I've enjoyed reading all (most) of your stuff, gents. Lots of interesting analysis.

Since you all are way ahead of me on the details, I'd like to get your feedback on a few items. Hopefully, you'll make it all clear to someone who's more overview oriented

1. I read a piece lately that pins Quinn's poor performance in meaningful games on his team. The old "he had to pass all day 'cause they had no D and his O-line had him hurried against strong Ds" take. Do you think that this situation differs much from what he'd have with the Brownies?

2. Are you giving up on Droughns when he had 1,000+ in '05? Do you think he's that degraded in one year or was it the O-line in 2006? With our O-line, would AP have more success than a veteran NFL 1,000 rusher?

3. Arguably, our biggest impact player on D is Wimbley. Even if you don't think so for '06, he will be soon. He's all upside. We grabbed him at 13, right? This draft isn't so weak that it's all in the top 5, is it?

Most of you want the impact O player, Quinn or Petersen but can this O-line be fixed enough in FA and 1 pick per round that they won't be a waste? Bad O-line = Couch/Green....Good O-line = Kosar-Sipe/Mack-Byner
1. There's no question of Brady's talent. Plus there's no way to value being coached by the QB guru Weis. With that said, Brady will be brought in to a place where he has 3 targets; Braylon, the big bodied fast WR that should be breaking out [HOPEFULLY]. The sure handed JJ. The and best TE in the league, K2. Throw in Droughns who is a very capable running back who can get yards. Our defense isn't bad if it didn't have to be put into situations/scoring differentials that it was created by our offense. If we can get the Oline help in FA than Quinn would make a lot of sense. He's good and he'll sell tickets.

2.I am not on the Adrian Peterson bandwagon. I'm on Brady's. Droughns was a 1000 yard back in Denver. So many say "that's a bi-product of Denver's system." Then had a 1000 yard season here in Cleveland. Last year you can blame it on injuries, oline, the horrid passing game which allowed defenses to stack the box, the play calling of Carthon, or even Rueban's legal problems. I think he's a good back who will bounce back in '08. That's just my opinion though.

3. All drafts have those players that are drafted late and become stars (tom brady 6th round, colston 7th). The talent differental isn't bad depending on the position. The elite guys, are also the elite guys at the weak positions which make their value increase. Branch being the top DT and then a big drop off. Peterson being the best RB with a big drop off (NFL network is saying that Lynch could drop into the second round because of all his problems). There is currently guys available that are very good, but for what we need via the '07 draft is weak in the middle of the round (assuming we are targeting, Oline-Thomas/QB's-Quinn/Russell/HB-Peterson/DL-Branch).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsimmsy21
i think we would go after adalius thomas first, if anything since he did get drafted by savage. but, IMO, we wont sign another starting LB this year.
Every indication I've read said that Thomas is getting the tag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMontainya
Would you give a 4rth round pick for David Carr, to give Frye some competiton?
No. I think Frye has enough competition with all the speculation. If we take Quinn/Russell he instantly is fighting with them and most likely lose. If not, he has Anderson on his trail, and all the talk of us passing on Quinn/Russell with the Cleveland Faithful [who seem to give up on players rather quickly] saying, and we missed Quinn/Russell to stay with Frye. With all the talk, he has enough on his plate, and we can use the 4th to draft a real player that could do some help for us. I personally don't like Carr and he doesn't bring in anything new to Cleveland. He doesn't bring a winning attitude that could [sarcasm]carry over in his winning days in Houston[/sarcasm]. Really all he brings is his toughness to take hits and Frye can do that too.



MY offseason would go:

Davis/Dhiel/Steinbach for guard.
Doss singed. Russell let go. p.s. I figure Doss to be a cheap sign since we are his 1st choice and we have money and he is better than Russell, allthough I like Russell.
Fraley resigned.
Bring in Clements
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail Browns
I'd like to see us attempt to sign Nate Clements. I know he wants a lot of money, but we've got money, and he would prevent last season's depth problems from resurfacing. We'd have Clements, Bodden, McCutcheon, Holly, and probably Minter. That sounds good to me. I know we have Baxter, but it's going to be a LONG TIME before he suits up again.
Agreed. The depth will not be missed. With DB's of Clements, Bodden, Holley, Brown/Minter/Perry, and Baxtor in '08 at the earliest. Dutch isn't coming back though. Poole could very well be a CB as well.

Lastly, get one Dline.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail Browns
I personally want Terdell Sands to play DE for us.
Was signed by the Raiders today.

Then draft:
r1: Quinn/Russell/Peterson/Branch if we trade down.
r2: Staley if he's there/abriamri (spelling)/bush if we didn't draft Peterson and are unsure of RD.
r3: Bush/Ugoh/Harris if we didn't get Staley.
r4: Ramirez/BPA
r5-7: BPA.
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Old 02-14-2007, 10:45 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyHall#1
And how do you do the white box thing?
They are codes that you put in your text.

So you want to quote a paragraph, you copy it, and then paste it to the reply box. In my example this will be called 'text' with text being the paragraph or statement or whatever you want to be put in the white box.

You put these series of coding before/after the post. p.s. replace the ( ) brackets with [ ] brackets.

(quote)text(/quote)

If you want to show who wrote the topic you do this.

(quote="the user's name")text(/quote)

It's easy once you get the hang of it. Remember that it's really [ ] for the brackets, but i had to use ( ) for this example. If you need more help PM me and I'll try to explain it better.
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Old 02-14-2007, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail Browns
It would also be nice to sign a DE. Our run D is atrocious, and we lost quite a few games this year because people ran us over. I personally want Terdell Sands to play DE for us. He's MASSIVE and strong, specializes in stopping the run, and would allow our linebackers more space to roam and make plays..
Actually Sands was just resigned by the Raiders. I think our next option as far as DE's go is that maybe Kris Jenkins or Cory Redding hit the market. Also, about Carr. There is a rumor floating around that the Browns have already had talks with the Texans about swapping first round picks and picking up another pick and trading Chaun Thompson for Carr. Still in it's "rumor" stages, although I heard more info will come about when the combine rolls around. So regarding the 4th rounder for Carr trade, how would you like swapping Chaun for Carr? I'd do that in a pinch.
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Old 02-14-2007, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snazel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail Browns
It would also be nice to sign a DE. Our run D is atrocious, and we lost quite a few games this year because people ran us over. I personally want Terdell Sands to play DE for us. He's MASSIVE and strong, specializes in stopping the run, and would allow our linebackers more space to roam and make plays..
Actually Sands was just resigned by the Raiders. I think our next option as far as DE's go is that maybe Kris Jenkins or Cory Redding hit the market. Also, about Carr. There is a rumor floating around that the Browns have already had talks with the Texans about swapping first round picks and picking up another pick and trading Chaun Thompson for Carr. Still in it's "rumor" stages, although I heard more info will come about when the combine rolls around. So regarding the 4th rounder for Carr trade, how would you like swapping Chaun for Carr? I'd do that in a pinch.
Why Carr? how is he better than Frye?
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Old 02-15-2007, 02:03 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
If not, he has Anderson on his trail
When a third string qb is contesting your starter, you need change.
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Old 02-15-2007, 07:28 AM    (permalink
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How is DCutch gone? I'd really like to know that. He's not an injury prone player, minor arthroscopic knee surgery is nothing, he just wasn't healing as fast as they wanted him to. His contract is not over, he's not overpayed, and he's a consistent player who works hard all the time. Putting him on the IR so soon this past season really hurt our depth.

Please enlighten me, or at least let me know where you get the idea from.
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Old 02-15-2007, 07:32 AM    (permalink
Hail Browns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snazel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail Browns
It would also be nice to sign a DE. Our run D is atrocious, and we lost quite a few games this year because people ran us over. I personally want Terdell Sands to play DE for us. He's MASSIVE and strong, specializes in stopping the run, and would allow our linebackers more space to roam and make plays..
Actually Sands was just resigned by the Raiders. I think our next option as far as DE's go is that maybe Kris Jenkins or Cory Redding hit the market. Also, about Carr. There is a rumor floating around that the Browns have already had talks with the Texans about swapping first round picks and picking up another pick and trading Chaun Thompson for Carr. Still in it's "rumor" stages, although I heard more info will come about when the combine rolls around. So regarding the 4th rounder for Carr trade, how would you like swapping Chaun for Carr? I'd do that in a pinch.
I just saw the thing about Sands, too bad. I think he would've fit well for us. I'd say Cory Redding and MAYBE Robaire Smith could be options, although Smith is up there in years.

I don't want Carr. I've tried my hardest to support the guy because I feel sorry for QB's who take hits constantly behind a horrid o-line. He just hasn't shown me anything that we don't have right now.

As for Chaun Thompson, he's underrated, probably because he doesn't get to play. I was really irritated this year because we didn't rotate any of our players. He's a guy who would be great in a rotation since he can play inside and out. If we're just going to let him waste away on the bench, get rid of him, but I'd like to see him actually get to PLAY again in a Browns uni.
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Old 02-15-2007, 07:38 AM    (permalink
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1st-Alan Branch
2nd-Joe Staley or Ben Grubbs
3rd-Dan Bazuin
4th-Kareem Brown or Antonio Johnson
5th-David Ball

That's a good draft.

Thanks j05son.
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Old 02-15-2007, 07:41 AM    (permalink
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Davis/Dhiel/Steinbach for guard.
Doss singed. Russell let go. p.s. I figure Doss to be a cheap sign since we are his 1st choice and we have money and he is better than Russell, allthough I like Russell.
Fraley resigned.
Bring in Clements
That doesn't solve our RT problem, but I like all of the moves you have.
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