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Old 12-12-2008, 04:32 PM    (permalink
rascal
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i'd accept stokley. for some reason i was recalling that as a trade.

john lynch was an ok signing.

casey weigmann has been average, which is luckily all we've needed.

in either case, none of those three was a Big Signing. none, as I remember, got much money given injury histories or age.

as far as running backs, which ones are you referring to? most of the FA running backs have been past the 31 age barrier. i wouldn't mind picking up jacobs here and spending the draft on defense.
I think the FA pickups and drafting have improved over the years and especially more so with Sundquist being kicked to the curb.

Weigmann was an incredible signing I don't know what you are thinking about being average. If not for him I seriously doubt our line would be doing nearly as well given it's lack of experience. He owned Jenkins, and Jenkins even admitted to it.

The days of having a big signing are pretty much over anyway with the cap so high. Most who are signed are over the hill players who get overpaid.
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Old 12-14-2008, 01:11 AM    (permalink
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*shrug*

ken hamlin, patrick kerney, and eric steinbach all would've been better uses of our money than dan graham.

the year before, brees, chester taylor, kevin walter, and steve hutchinson were all pretty good players.

and none of that even accounts for players where a trade would've been made.

i'm not suggesting we should've picked up any or all of those guys, just saying that there ARE solid players in free agency, and that if we're going to pull dumb**** moves like giving dan graham ****ing 6 million a season, we should at least direct that money to a DECENT player.
Yeah, lets just through guys out there who were way overpriced, coming off a severe injury or have shown just 1 year where they were worth the contract.
Kerney's on IR right now and probably on the downhill. Seattle probably got that 1 year from him last year, thats it.
Brees was coming off a severe injury and nobody knew what was going to happen with him.
Hutchinson, Steinbach both paid a ridiculous amount of money as a guard.

I do agree giving Graham that much is horrible, but stop complaining about it and bringing it up so much, geez.
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Old 12-14-2008, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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you're right, our team is perfect, all the decisions were wonderful and mistakes have never been made. we, as fans, shouldn't complain about anything at all because the broncos might be the greatest franchise ever in any sport.
When you bring it up in nearly every post, its over abundant.

And as for this team, the injuries are absolutely killing, especially at RB. We have NO running game now, and everybody will know it. Cutler can't win games by himself every week, as this week showed.
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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The defense didn't play well, but when the offense scores only 10 points they didn't pull their weight.

Broncos were dominated today. Either the WRs couldn't get open or Cutler was off, probably both, but the pass offense was awful. Granted having no running attack didn't help but still. Cutler's inconsistency once again showed it's ugly head.

What was everyone's opinion of Barrett out there today? Besides that one missed tackle I thought he was probably the best player on defense today. Which is scary.

Clady played well I though. That's about all I can saw on offense.
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:55 AM    (permalink
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The defense didn't play well, but when the offense scores only 10 points they didn't pull their weight.

Broncos were dominated today. Either the WRs couldn't get open or Cutler was off, probably both, but the pass offense was awful. Granted having no running attack didn't help but still. Cutler's inconsistency once again showed it's ugly head.

What was everyone's opinion of Barrett out there today? Besides that one missed tackle I thought he was probably the best player on defense today. Which is scary.

Clady played well I though. That's about all I can saw on offense.
Defense was the same old, same old. Did decent against the run IMO aside from that long TD run.
But this falls on the offense as well for not doing jack squat after the 1st quarter, and essentially gift wrapping 6 points for the Panthers.

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barrett may have been ok. i had an extremely low opinion of the secondary in general. i'm about ready to release dre bly, who's, at best, a dime back at this point.

as an aside, watching the giants tonight, i'm realizing how often they blitz and how successful it is. which means shanny's probably not paying any attention.
The lack of blizting annoys me, and lack of creativity on defense annoys me. Its like a preseason defense out there. It amazes me how it is, and I don't think it will change until Shanahan is gone.
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Old 12-17-2008, 12:03 AM    (permalink
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How is Ryan Harris doing this year?
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Old 12-17-2008, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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not bad. yes, i'm very nearly saying something good about the broncos.

harris isn't playing as well as clady obviously, but i'm very pleased.
OK, thanks, I was just reminded of him after I watched the True Life show of him on MTV last night. Glad to hear he's doing well, he's from Minnesota.
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Old 12-23-2008, 12:07 AM    (permalink
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I can't remember what my prediction was on the season, but I'm thinking it was probably 9-7. If you had told me at the beggining of the season that we would have 8 RBs on IR, all of our starting LBs missing at least 5 games, Champ out 8 games, and the safety position being in limbo the entire season and still have a chance the last week to finish 9-7 and be in the playoffs I would have called the season a victory.

But looking at it now, there are several things that piss me off. Yes we had our share of injuries, but all we needed was 1 victory out of 3 to get in and it doesn't look like we will get it. And yet again a Shanny coached team falls apart late in the season.

The defense has been a joke all year, and if anything key players have noticeably regressed. Every d-lineman, including Dumervile, has looked like a complete scrub. Every defensive back has looked like a complete scrub (sans Champ). Who is to blame for that?

If it's the defensive scheme or players who is to blame for that? At some point Shanny has got to be responsible for his choices/actions.

The man is smart on offense, but no genius, but he is an idiot when it comes to picking a defensive coaching let alone defense talent. And people harped at Coyer for not adapting during the game, but the same can be said for Shanny on offense. Great initial game planning, but after the defense adjusts the offense has become anemic time and time again.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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I can't remember what my prediction was on the season, but I'm thinking it was probably 9-7. If you had told me at the beggining of the season that we would have 8 RBs on IR, all of our starting LBs missing at least 5 games, Champ out 8 games, and the safety position being in limbo the entire season and still have a chance the last week to finish 9-7 and be in the playoffs I would have called the season a victory.

But looking at it now, there are several things that piss me off. Yes we had our share of injuries, but all we needed was 1 victory out of 3 to get in and it doesn't look like we will get it. And yet again a Shanny coached team falls apart late in the season.

The defense has been a joke all year, and if anything key players have noticeably regressed. Every d-lineman, including Dumervile, has looked like a complete scrub. Every defensive back has looked like a complete scrub (sans Champ). Who is to blame for that?

If it's the defensive scheme or players who is to blame for that? At some point Shanny has got to be responsible for his choices/actions.

The man is smart on offense, but no genius, but he is an idiot when it comes to picking a defensive coaching let alone defense talent. And people harped at Coyer for not adapting during the game, but the same can be said for Shanny on offense. Great initial game planning, but after the defense adjusts the offense has become anemic time and time again.
I wouldn't say every defensive player looks like a scrub. Dre' Bly has looked okay, I really don't know why people rag on him so much.
The rookie LB's have played well, especially Woodyard.
Heck, I'd say Josh Bell, is that his name?, has played decently at CB. Not great, but heck not too shabby for an undrafted rookie.
The DL has been widely inconsistent though. Marcus Thomas is a decent DT I think, and Moss could become a decent DE. Dumervil has looked like crap this year though.
The biggest thing I think is the scheme though. We hardly blitz and play soft zones from what I can tell. Thus, results in easy completions.

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it's weird, because this is almost exactly how i expected the team to look on the field, i just expected our record would be something like 4-12.... i guess i've been pleasantly (yes, really) surprised by a lot of things this season (eddie royal, ryan clady, ryan harris [who was trying to tell me he was a LT last off-season?]), and, as frustrating as it gets, the problems weren't unexpected.

*shrug*

i just hope that rivers doesn't win SD the game and cutler doesn't lose it for us. beyond that...

well, it's about time for hockey season. go wings.
With how our stats are, -14 or whatever in turnovers, bottom 5 defense, I'm amazed we are 8-7. Before the year I predicted 8-8/9-7, which they will meet in wins, but the thing is, they have played SOOOO poorly this year at times that its hard for me to be encouraged. I'm happy with the offensive progression from last year, but the defensive regression has been awful.
I mean, we lost 5 games by 2 scores, 3 games by 20 or more points. We have 6 wins by 4 points or less.
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Old 12-23-2008, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't say every defensive player looks like a scrub. Dre' Bly has looked okay, I really don't know why people rag on him so much.
The rookie LB's have played well, especially Woodyard.
Heck, I'd say Josh Bell, is that his name?, has played decently at CB. Not great, but heck not too shabby for an undrafted rookie.
The DL has been widely inconsistent though. Marcus Thomas is a decent DT I think, and Moss could become a decent DE. Dumervil has looked like crap this year though.
The biggest thing I think is the scheme though. We hardly blitz and play soft zones from what I can tell. Thus, results in easy completions.
I think the scheme is awful and I'd love to see Slowik, as well as the defensive line coach, get shown the door.

Sorry but I think Bly is about as inconsistent as the d-line.

Woodyard has played well but the problem is where to put him when DJ came back. I think him at SS is a horrible idea. And Larsen was not that good and more of a fan favorite than anything. He had poor pursuit and was out of position way to often.

Josh Bell was a pleasant surprise as well, Jack Williams though...ugh, but the problem of this defense is not the CBs. So his solid play doesn't contribute much.

I don't know if it's the scheme or what, but Moss, Dumervil, hell everyone has had no pass rush whatsoever. Something needs to change.
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Old 12-23-2008, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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i just hope that rivers doesn't win SD the game and cutler doesn't lose it for us. beyond that...

[/quote]

Resident SD Fan here, I know its easy to play into the ESPN made drama about Rivers vs. Cutler (clearly Cutler has).........but can't you admit Cutler is every bit as immature as Rivers?! I'd take Cutler's physical tools everyday of the week, but I'd take Rivers' intangibles on sundays.

My reason for the post is to get an intelligent response to why (besides being a Bronco fan) the hate on Rivers?!

Christmas came early on 12/21 for the Bolts, hopefully we can close the deal and host the Colts in the playoffs.
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Old 12-23-2008, 07:13 PM    (permalink
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i don't think anyone has ever suggested otherwise.



*shrug* you can have him. it's not like cutler doesn't have poise in the 4th quarter.



rivalry? talking trash to our sideline last year? rivalry? why do we need a reason OTHER than being broncos fans? if the chiefs or raiders had a guy who was anywhere near as talented, i'd hate them, too.
What bugs me about that game last year, was Cutler STARTED the jawing, and it was Rivers and others RESPONSE to his whining that got played up by ESPN.......those Camera's didn't tell the whole story.

Cutler wasn't poised enough on 12/21 was he?! He also wasn't poised enough in the week 2 game, but got bailed out by Hochuli. We'll see sunday!!!!

Rivalry is enough, I am glad the Bolts are good enough since 2005 to start one with the Donkee's you guys ruled the west (along with a couple of Gruden's teams) B-4 that.

We haven't had anyone since Fouts (certainly NOT Brees) SD Fans can get excited about. The Ryan Leaf nightmare put us back 5 years.......Brees was nice, but he is no Rivers. Should be a great rivalry for years to come as Cutler is s stud, but I'd still rather have Philip.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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[quote=njx9;1384816]*shrug* maybe. i've only heard this from SD fans to this point (not that that doesn't make it true).



did you even watch the game?

he was certainly poised enough to hit royal on the EXACT same play twice in a row to win the game. it's just too bad your defense had to rely on its fan's weak excuses.

[quote]

Yeah, I watched week 2 from Kickoff to final plays (you so keeny mentioned)....what you did not mention was the BONEHEAD, Jake the Fake like fumble that gave us the W. If you think SD Fans were the only ones making excuses the rest of the NFL outside YOUR fans know we got robbed. Heck even rational Bronco's fans I know without orange sunglasses could see that!

Funny you didn't mention Shanahan calling the same play twice in a row AGAIN last sunday. Cutler's missed Stokley twice when the AFC West was on the line..........same play overthrown twice, at least Jay was closer the second time, but Stokley couldn't hold on. Was that poised?

Poise is all in the eye of the beholder, until Cutler starts driving his team 98 yards in the playoffs, he will always be in the shadow of #7.

I'll be the first to tell you Cutler is more talented than Rivers, but that doesn't get you W's/AFC West Titles or Wins in the playoffs....Cutler is still behind Rivers in that department. You did pull even in Pro Bowls....but Favre over Rivers was a JOKE.

I am confident in saying Rivers will be the first to hoist the Lombardi, which is the most valued commodity when their careers are all over.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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I think it's impossible to say who will hoist the Lombardi first... neither team is in super bowl shape right now, MAYBE Chargers next year with Merriman back, and I don't think there's THAT much separating them is players, although I'll be the first to admit Rivers is better right now.

Cutler's very good in the 4th Q most of the time, keep in mind he is a third year QB who has thrown the ball more than anyone besides Kurt Warner and Drew Brees, almost 38 times, the most by a 3rd year guy since Tom Brady, and before that, Peyton Manning(actually threw it more than Manning). Even this last week, Stokely had BOTH hands on the tying TD but failed to bring it in. That wasn't a great throw, but is on Stokely. The pick was a forced throw, not a good one, but things happen. Marshall fumbled away what would have been points, in all likelihood.

For examples on Cutler's poise, please see the Denver game last year against Pit, and Green Bay(haven't seen many games this year, but I guess ATL is a good one).
As for Cutler v. Rivers, they're both pompous jerks sometimes, maybe Cutler is a bigger one, but he has had more reason to be frustrated in his career. I mean, last sunday he was dealing with not being able to get the playcalls. That is frustrating. Plus he has been dealing with an inept defense, I really don't know how we are sitting here with 8 wins, a win or a tie away from the playoffs.

I picked us for 8-8 at the end of the season(I had us losing both SD games, but beating Buffalo) and thought it was being too optimistic. We'll see what happens. I'm more confident now than I was on Sunday night, I'd put it at 25% chance we win.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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Wink Cutler vs. Rivers etc

Appreciate the knowledge about Cutler....I hadn't seen those games you mentioned. Being a bolts fan, I only usually catch highlights of Bronco's games....games we play them, and of course I was VERY interested in the Buffalo game.

Cutler is scary in terms of talent, maybe even as much as Elway....and with Royal and that BEAST baby TO....what did he have 18 catches against us in week 2......silly (hopefully Cro won't embarrass himself again like he did against Marshall last time). Sheffler is legit, also Stokley outa the slot.

Don't know much about your Oline, except Clady, heard he shoulda been a Bowler like our young LT Mcneill did his first year. The domer, I know in name only.

Bottom line is the massive difference in talent on defense (I am hoping you don't find a safety or linebacker in 2009 draft!!!).........while we have underachieved, I do believe Rivera has us playing well enough to get it done on Sunday........then everybody is 0-0.

Giving Rivers some kudo's in terms of the Poise debate, check the 2006, 2008 games in Denver.......we got down 2 TD's plus in each game.....and in each he brought us back...........he wasn't too mad in 2007 either in Denver ;-)

I will be looking for that same poise again if Cutler gets hot on sunday and we get down. Is it 7:15 on sunday yet?! Rivers is far from mistake free: Kavika Mitchell got him in Buffalo this year as well......but compare any numbers you want Rivers wins this years battles....hopefully setting up years of rivalry games to come!!!!
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Old 12-24-2008, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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The fact that the chargers want to pin their disappointing performance on the injury to Merriman is laughable. If Tom Brady can't cause that much of a difference on the Patriots, then Merriman sure as hell shouldn't cause that much of a difference for the chargers. Fact is that the Chargers are on the decline, see LT and Jamal Williams as an example, and their window is closing. They are still a good team, but not near the strength they were previously.

Rivers is a punk and while a good QB, Cutler has him beat in almost every catagory (except maturity I'd say). If Cutler hadn't lost 8 freaking RBs this year to keep defenses even remotely honest his stats / performance would have been better. It's hard to come up with an effective game plan or passing attack when the opposing defense knows you can't run the ball effectively and basically play a nickel / dime against you every play.

No fourth quarter poise? I guess fourth quarter comebacks this year against the Browns, KC, and Atlanta don't count???
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:16 PM    (permalink
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Can we cut the whole defense except Champ yet?

Oh and fire Shanahan and whoever is calling our plays.
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CutlerChris View Post
Can we cut the whole defense except Champ yet?
Why leave Champ out of the fun? He's pretty much done anyway and doesn't really bring much in terms of leadership.

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Oh and fire Shanahan and whoever is calling our plays.
Little boy Bates? What, you don't like seeing yet another WR screen fail?
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Old 12-28-2008, 10:53 PM    (permalink
MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
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Why leave Champ out of the fun? He's pretty much done anyway and doesn't really bring much in terms of leadership.



Little boy Bates? What, you don't like seeing yet another WR screen fail?
I still think Champ is the best CB in the league when healthy. Problem is, he's having trouble doing that cuz we leave him in coverage so long and he's our best defender.

And I'd prefer seeing plays that go vertically, especially when that's our strength.
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Old 12-28-2008, 11:27 PM    (permalink
Diehard
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I take that back. DJ, Dumervil and Champ might actually have trade value.
The scary thing is that all three of these guys are overrated to some degree. DJ is the worst offender, Dumervil is really just a role player and you can pretty much count on Champ to be dinged up or out for half the season.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:22 AM    (permalink
Diehard
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our coaching staff needs to go. unless shanny can suddenly remember what he did over a decade ago, and unless guys like gibbs and kubiak decide to come back, the broncos aren't getting much better.
Apparently, Shanahan indicated that Slowik would remain as DC for the 2009 season. I'm in denial that this could even be a possibility.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:48 AM    (permalink
Diehard
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what in the name of holy ******* **** for? because he ran the league's most inept unit? if true, i may actually stop watching the broncos until shanahan is fired in protest. that's beyond ******* belief.
If the report is true, then it simply confirms that Slowik is just Shanahan's stooge. If Shanny's calling all the shots, and everyone in the organization knows it, then firing Slowik doesn't really do much to deflect the blame.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Well that was fun...ugh. At least we get a #12 draft pick.

I'd love to sign Asomugah, Otogwe, and Canty in FA. And dumping Bly would be a dream come true. Draft the best MLB available in the first round, RB in ound 2, and then best defensive playe through out the rest of the draft. Trading DJ is fine with me. His performance has steadily declined IMO and last nights peformance was the worst I've seen. Schefter was on the radio earlier and said that Bly is done and would have a hard time finding a place to play next year. If we trade DJ and cut Bly we will have a lot of cap room (currently have 30 mil) to make some FA moves.

I also think Slowik needs to be canned, but it looks like he won't. What we could use is a d-line coach and a better strength/conditioning coach.

Next years starting lineup on defense:
DE Canty
DT Robertson
DT Thomas
DE Dumevile, Moss
WLB Woodyard
MLB Rookie
SLB rookie or some combo of Boss,Winbon, or Webster (maybe FA but doubt it)
CB Bailey
CB Asomugah
S Otogwe
S Barrett


Offense:
QB Cutler
RB Rookie, Torain, whoever is healthy after this year
FB Hillis
WR Marshall
WR Royal
TE Graham/Scheffle
OT Clady
OG Hamilton
C Wiegmann
OG Kuper
OT Harris

Last edited by rascal : 12-29-2008 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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guys, is the D being terrible more Shanny or your DC's fault? I love Shanny and hope to see him stay and do well, just wondering if he's losing his mind or something...
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Old 12-29-2008, 02:29 PM    (permalink
Diehard
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regardless, like him or not, he's no longer a capable coach in the nfl. would that change if he lost all GM duties? i don't believe it, but maybe.
Of course, Bowlen hasn't shown he has the balls to force the issue with Shanahan... probably afraid that Shanny would just resign instead.

Slowik is just a patsy in all of this. He's been overpromoted because he's a yes man and the players (Champ, in particular) apparently like him... traits that are entirely useless for the rebuilding project we have on our hands. I'm concerned about the lack of objectivity, the unwillingness to make the tough cuts and the inability to evaluate defensive talent needed to lay the foundation for the future.
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