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Old 02-23-2009, 10:00 PM    (permalink
M.O.T.H.
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Canty in Washington. eww.

But anyway, I really question how we can even compete in say a bidding war over FAs. If nothing alarming comes up injury wise, Sean Jones is going to get paid and the Jets and Ravens can give Ray better offers. He's not going to take a pay cut and he will cost a lot.
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Old 02-24-2009, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Canty in Washington. eww.

But anyway, I really question how we can even compete in say a bidding war over FAs. If nothing alarming comes up injury wise, Sean Jones is going to get paid and the Jets and Ravens can give Ray better offers. He's not going to take a pay cut and he will cost a lot.
We have 10 million to play around with...add in another possible 4.2 million if the johnson/williams deals a cut...then all of a sudden you have 14 million in play room with uncapped 2010 season...I don't see anyone in FA we couldn't have a shot at really.

Canty didn't even play in our nickel package...I think it's funny that Washington wants to move him inside...but definately something I would be ok with playing them twice a year.
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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like Thule mentioned earlier, I don't understand why we don't wait to pay Ware next year? We want him here, he wants to be here -- why run ourselves out of contention with some good FA's (Burnett, Canty, Sean Jones, Igor, Crowder) just so we can get him locked up a year early?

I'm afraid we're going to regret losing Canty to be honest.
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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like Thule mentioned earlier, I don't understand why we don't wait to pay Ware next year? We want him here, he wants to be here -- why run ourselves out of contention with some good FA's (Burnett, Canty, Sean Jones, Igor, Crowder) just so we can get him locked up a year early?

I'm afraid we're going to regret losing Canty to be honest.
I've kinda thought the same thing. He's got one more year on his deal and with the franchise tag, we could keep him locked up for 2 more years after that.

What's the thought process behind the urgency to get it done now?
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Haven't we learned our lesson by spending tons of money in free agency? I think that this year we just need to try and resign Burnett, Canty and Austin. Then maybe find a bargain at backup QB.
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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I've kinda thought the same thing. He's got one more year on his deal and with the franchise tag, we could keep him locked up for 2 more years after that.

What's the thought process behind the urgency to get it done now?
Franchise tags piss players off. Do you want Ware upset at the organization? I sure don't.
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Old 02-24-2009, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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Franchise tags piss players off. Do you want Ware upset at the organization? I sure don't.

No, me neither.
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Old 02-24-2009, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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Franchise tags piss players off. Do you want Ware upset at the organization? I sure don't.
The raiders had no problem locking up Aso before FA but after the season when it was cap friendly...I see no reason while the Dallas Cowboys couldn't do the same.
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Old 02-24-2009, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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Canty in Washington. eww.

But anyway, I really question how we can even compete in say a bidding war over FAs. If nothing alarming comes up injury wise, Sean Jones is going to get paid and the Jets and Ravens can give Ray better offers. He's not going to take a pay cut and he will cost a lot.
The franchise tag for S is around $6.8M I believe. That's why the Browns didn't give it to him. Last season he got paid like $2.5, if I read correctly. I don't think the market rate for him will be anywhere near $6M, especially when teams consider the amount of injuries he's had.

If we give him $3.5-4M ish, I think that's fair. A 3 year, $9-12Mish deal is affordable... unless I'm totally off on this assumption on what his market value is.
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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We dont have $10 million to play around with...we're going to have to assign multiple 2nd round tenders, Ware is going to get re-signed and eat a huge amount of the available cash, and then we have the draft class to sign.

Ware is going to sign an extension soon and it is going to kill the current cap room...that's just the way it is. Jerry has been talking about going cheap because, he doesnt want to hurt this team if/when the league quickly goes back to a capped year after 2010...atleast that's what he keeps saying. We've spent more than any other team in the past few years...eventually that catches up with you and this year we dont have much to play around with.

You realize Ware's base salary is under $1.5 million this year? He's going to sign that extension this off-season.
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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Apparently Shaun Rogers wants out of Cleveland. Financially, is it possible for us?
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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I dont think he'll get moved. I mean, he just signed there...that's a huge cap hit. He's still going to be that 3-4 NT with Mangini coming in, I'm sure they have no interest in trading/releasing him. If he wants to get traded, i think he is **** out of luck. haha.
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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The raiders had no problem locking up Aso before FA but after the season when it was cap friendly...I see no reason while the Dallas Cowboys couldn't do the same.
You're right thule, let's follow the Raiders franchise model and hope for the best.
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Old 02-25-2009, 03:31 AM    (permalink
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We dont have $10 million to play around with...we're going to have to assign multiple 2nd round tenders, Ware is going to get re-signed and eat a huge amount of the available cash, and then we have the draft class to sign.

Ware is going to sign an extension soon and it is going to kill the current cap room...that's just the way it is. Jerry has been talking about going cheap because, he doesnt want to hurt this team if/when the league quickly goes back to a capped year after 2010...atleast that's what he keeps saying. We've spent more than any other team in the past few years...eventually that catches up with you and this year we dont have much to play around with.

You realize Ware's base salary is under $1.5 million this year? He's going to sign that extension this off-season.
The beauty of NFL contracts is that they are not guaranteed. If Jerry wants more money to play with, then he has plenty of options. He could also restructure others. Being frugal is a smart tactic. Being cheap is not. I don't expect us to be trying to sign the market's best FAs, but I do think we can get one or two key guys.
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Old 02-25-2009, 03:35 AM    (permalink
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You're right thule, let's follow the Raiders franchise model and hope for the best.
I forget who brought up the point but maybe Jerry wants to save money by signing Ware before the uncapped season. If he waits until then, Ware might get an A-Rod type contract, God forbid.

Whatever though... as long as he doesn't find his way to Miami back in Bill's back pocket.
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Old 02-25-2009, 03:58 AM    (permalink
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like Thule mentioned earlier, I don't understand why we don't wait to pay Ware next year? We want him here, he wants to be here -- why run ourselves out of contention with some good FA's (Burnett, Canty, Sean Jones, Igor, Crowder) just so we can get him locked up a year early?

I'm afraid we're going to regret losing Canty to be honest.
Because frankly he earned it, look at his track record since he's been here, has he even missed a game? Yet we throw money around to guys like Flozell who won't even play out that contract, or TO who won't finish his contract, yet we just tag Ware or let him play on a rookie contract which is obviously out dated.


We shouldn't take Ware for granted because he's a high character guy and isn't the type to stir up a fuss, he is worth the money so he needs to get paid, squash the doubts that Ware is going anywhere and make a statement with his contract that he is the leader of our defense and we need to pay him like it.
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Old 02-25-2009, 08:16 AM    (permalink
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Because frankly he earned it, look at his track record since he's been here, has he even missed a game? Yet we throw money around to guys like Flozell who won't even play out that contract, or TO who won't finish his contract, yet we just tag Ware or let him play on a rookie contract which is obviously out dated.


We shouldn't take Ware for granted because he's a high character guy and isn't the type to stir up a fuss, he is worth the money so he needs to get paid, squash the doubts that Ware is going anywhere and make a statement with his contract that he is the leader of our defense and we need to pay him like it.
What Ware and his agent need to consider is if they hold off until the end of this next season or next year to sign, there might even be a larger contract waiting. Especially until they finalized what will go down with the cap.

Ware is the type of guy to honor his original contract, but he does deserve to be paid like the player he is. Jerry won't hesitate on offer him a huge deal, but the timing is horrible this off-season, for both parties in my opinion...
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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There is no point for Ware to wait...no 20 sack guy is going to play for 1.45 million. His base salary is incredibly low for this upcoming season. He's going to get paid and it's going to be the biggest contract Jerry has ever dished out for a defensive player.
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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We dont have $10 million to play around with...we're going to have to assign multiple 2nd round tenders, Ware is going to get re-signed and eat a huge amount of the available cash, and then we have the draft class to sign.

Ware is going to sign an extension soon and it is going to kill the current cap room...that's just the way it is. Jerry has been talking about going cheap because, he doesnt want to hurt this team if/when the league quickly goes back to a capped year after 2010...atleast that's what he keeps saying. We've spent more than any other team in the past few years...eventually that catches up with you and this year we dont have much to play around with.

You realize Ware's base salary is under $1.5 million this year? He's going to sign that extension this off-season.
Austin is the only guy I even think about offering a 2nd round tender too...and even we don't have to do that. None of the other players deserve that type of offer....if we do I'll be surprised because overvaluing team developed talent is something that we shouldn't have to do.

I agree with you that Ware "should" get his deal done now...but I'm just saying as a fan I would love to see it get bumped back as long as it was ok with Ware...which is something that would be settled by Jerry and Stephen...not saying to do it...it's just an option.

I still think we cut 2 players to make room for 14million. tender austin and bowen which be about 2.5 million

How much will Ware make year one....something like 28 garunteed over 6 or 7 years...probably count for 6 mill in 2009....that still leaves us with a few million for a move and drafts....I don't think a guy like Ray Ray or Jones are out of our price range.
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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Apparently Shaun Rogers wants out of Cleveland. Financially, is it possible for us?
a nice thought...too bad he is stuck there with his numbers.
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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If I'm giving Ware close to 30 million garunteed he better up his leadership on the field...because it's one thing to let production speak...but when you become the highest paid player on the defensive side of the ball...you're also getting paid to be a vocal leader.
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Ware is probably going to get upwards of $35-$40 million in guaranteed money.

You have to dish out high tenders because, all the restricted players were undrafted...meaning, if you low tender them...you'll get no compensation at all...and they're easy to lose. Austin, Hurd, and Bowen all have value to other teams. Low tender = compensation would equal the round the player was drafted in. Hence, why it is called an original draft tender. Austin and Bowen who are certaintly still in the plans will probably both get a 2nd round tender. Hurd on the other hand can go either way. I wouldnt doubt someone would sign him to an offer sheet.

Then you have Keith Davis who will more than likely be back.

After our own signings...prior to the end of FA and the start of the draft....we could be looking at only 5 to 7 million available...with draft picks still to sign. This has been talked about for a long time...Dallas is not in a cap friendly year, this year and Jerry doesnt even want to take it all the way to the limit.

and as much as it would be the nice thing to do for Ware to wait...it just wont happen and he really shouldnt even be asked to do such a thing. He has out performed his rookie contract and deserves a new one.
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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I understand how tenders work. Hurd/Austin/Bowen are all replaceable players for cheaper as to what they offer to the team in 2009. Only reason I even consider giving Austin a 2nd round tender...is because teams are talking about him and we might get lucky enough to find someone dumb enough to make that move.
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Old 02-25-2009, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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You have to protect you own guys, though.

If you give Austin a low tender...the Dolphins or someone will sign him to an offer sheet and Bowen, actually has a realistic shot at starting for us this year. He has plenty of value to the growing amount of 3-4 teams in the league. Neither player would be touched if given a 2nd round tender. But, i'd def. expect both to be signed to offer sheets if given low tenders.
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Old 02-25-2009, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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You have to protect you own guys, though.

If you give Austin a low tender...the Dolphins or someone will sign him to an offer sheet and Bowen, actually has a realistic shot at starting for us this year. He has plenty of value to the growing amount of 3-4 teams in the league. Neither player would be touched if given a 2nd round tender. But, i'd def. expect both to be signed to offer sheets if given low tenders.
They can all go to other teams and we will be alright. Austin caught something like 15 passes last year...and although he has showed promise...1.5million isn't going to be justified in on the field production unless someone went down to injury. Only reason I even think to give him mid tender is if I'm hearing teams will "still" bite.

Bowen yes could be a starter for us...but that is scary as hell...if a player can't start for you and you can't feel good about it...i sure as hell am not giving him 1.5 million to backup either.

Those guys are all backup players...by not giving away more money...that could be the million dollars we needed just to land a starter...as we need a starting Safety and ILB...something that doesn't look like we will be able to get from the draft. If Bowen/Hurd/Austin go on to be great players....that is good for them imo....they aren't players we "need"
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