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Old 03-02-2009, 05:00 PM    (permalink
iowatreat54
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Originally Posted by sweetness34 View Post
I mean honestly, who had Illinois on their list for teams who would push for a high seed in March Madness. I can guarantee that pretty much all of you didn't. Hell I know I didn't, I was thinking NIT when we lost Jamar Smith. But top 25, 4-5 seed, top 3 in the Big 10 (with a shot at a 2nd place finish)...No way man, no way. And the Big 10 is a pretty solid conference. It's not the ACC or the Big East but it's still a good conference this year up and down (apart from Iowa and IU, sorry treat). No "great teams" but a lot of depth.
No offense taken, we are terrible.

I think the Big XI has good depth, but it is mediocre depth. MSU is tops, that's easy, and Purdue is marginally the 2nd best team but have been questionable at times. Illinois has looked like a dominating team at times, and looked like a team that should be about .500 at other times, they are very, very inconsistent. After that, Minny, PSU, Wisconsin, and Michigan are all mediocre teams that can show up once in a while. That said, 6 conference losses, even in an extremely competitive league, just doesn't cut it. I mean, the 5 teams in the much tougher Big East have 5 or less losses, which to me is much more impressive.
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Old 03-02-2009, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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Here's my Top 5 COTY candidates

1. Trent Johnson, LSU
2. Jeff Capel, Oklahoma
3. Lorenzo Romar, Washington
4. Bill Self, Kansas
5. Mike Anderson, Missouri

Honorable Mention :: John Calipari, Memphis; Jim Calhoun, UCONN; Dino Gaudio, Wake Forest
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Old 03-02-2009, 05:28 PM    (permalink
sweetness34
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Originally Posted by iowatreat54 View Post
No offense taken, we are terrible.

I think the Big XI has good depth, but it is mediocre depth. MSU is tops, that's easy, and Purdue is marginally the 2nd best team but have been questionable at times. Illinois has looked like a dominating team at times, and looked like a team that should be about .500 at other times, they are very, very inconsistent. After that, Minny, PSU, Wisconsin, and Michigan are all mediocre teams that can show up once in a while. That said, 6 conference losses, even in an extremely competitive league, just doesn't cut it. I mean, the 5 teams in the much tougher Big East have 5 or less losses, which to me is much more impressive.
Considering the talent on the roster though, that's where I'm looking. The Big East is tougher I agree but considering where we came from at the beginning of this season, it's quite astounding. The coaching award usually reflects wins and losses, rankings, etc...But I think they really need to look at what teams do during the year. UCONN, Pitt, Louisville, etc have marquee guys on their team, we don't. Again talent wise right now we are not a top 25 team. As far as "coaching" goes, maximizing your roster, no bad losses, big wins on the road, and consistency...I think Weber should be a finalist. All of those coaches you mentioned have something to work with, Weber lost his best player before the season started. There is not one guy on our roster who any of you would place on the first team in the Big 10, or quite possibly the 2nd team other than Mike Davis and even he has been inconsistent and has battle sickness this year.

Maybe it's just me playing the violin here but the turnaround from last year is just unbelievable. Under .500, lose 3 of our best players, and find ourselves as a possible 4-5 seed with soooo many question marks in a decent conference.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 03-02-2009, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is no reason for us to be where we are right now at all. On paper we are an average team. Which is not at all the case with UCONN, Pitt, UNC, Louisville, Oklahoma, MSU, Purdue, etc...I think in terms of doing the most with the least, Bruce Weber should be awarded with something for this season, and even if he's not at least recognized for his accomplishments because he's pulled a Houdini with this team.
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 03-02-2009, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by sweetness34 View Post
I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is no reason for us to be where we are right now at all. On paper we are an average team. Which is not at all the case with UCONN, Pitt, UNC, Louisville, Oklahoma, MSU, Purdue, etc...I think in terms of doing the most with the least, Bruce Weber should be awarded with something for this season, and even if he's not at least recognized for his accomplishments because he's pulled a Houdini with this team.
He a strong case for Big Ten Coach of the Year but he won't get much love for the nation's coach of the year.
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Old 03-02-2009, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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He a strong case for Big Ten Coach of the Year but he won't get much love for the nation's coach of the year.
I think he's the leading case for Big 10 COTY, it's him or Izzo and I understand that he won't grab the National one but I'd at least like to see him recognized for what he's done with this team.

People keep saying how ugly some of our games have been with the 33 and 40 point games we have had this year but I think that's just a testament to the coaching he has done, we have limited offensive and defensive talent this year and we are a top 25 team, pretty incredible.
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Old 03-02-2009, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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He a strong case for Big Ten Coach of the Year but he won't get much love for the nation's coach of the year.
He should win Big XI COY, unless they decide Izzo doesn't have enough awards.

I'm just not impressed with the Big XI at all. I mean hell, we managed to beat 3 teams in it, that's saying a lot. If Illinois had 2 or 3 losses in conference then absolutely, but I just can't bring myself to giving a national award to the coach of a team who has 6 losses in what is at best a marginally above average conference IMO, especially when there are 11 teams in the 2 vastly superior conferences with that many or less losses. Granted, some of those teams have a lot more talent, but not every one of them do.
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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Yes but the Big 10 >> Pac 10, Big 12, and the SEC and we have the highest RPI rating of the conferences I do believe. I'd rank the Big 10 behind the ACC and the Big East.

I encourage people to go to our roster, break it down, and find out how the hell we got 23 wins out of this team. None of the players right now on this squad are NBA players. Davis, Tisdale, and DMac could be down the line but not even close right now. Our two senior guards have been lambasted by our fan base since they have been on campus (apart from this year).

Talent wise, we are probably a bubble NCAA team to be honest. Again how we are a potential 5 seed is mind boggling which is why I think Weber should be considered for it considering what he's been able to do with his roster.
I really don't see how you can make the argument that the Big 10 is significantly better than the Big 12. They're about equal in my eyes.
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Ok I'd almost rather spank my meat with sandpaper at this point.
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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Well the COY Finalists were released today...I really don't see how you can make a legit argument for another finalist over Self, but whatever...

http://www.kansascity.com/news/break...y/1062842.html
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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Well the COY Finalists were released today...I really don't see how you can make a legit argument for another finalist over Self, but whatever...

http://www.kansascity.com/news/break...y/1062842.html
Well, Capel and Dixon have better teams, with better records, and in the case of Dixon, in a much better conference. Even Calipari lost just as much as Kansas did and has a better team on paper, albeit CUSA isn't good at all. But to even be top 10 after all they lost is still impressive.
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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I encourage people to go to our roster, break it down, and find out how the hell we got 23 wins out of this team. None of the players right now on this squad are NBA players. Davis, Tisdale, and DMac could be down the line but not even close right now.
You know, everytime I see Chester Frazier I think of Eric Snow. After 4-5 years in the NBDL or Europe & developing some type of jump shot I could see him making an NBA roster and getting a shot. He is one of those players that coaches love.
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Well, Capel and Dixon have better teams, with better records, and in the case of Dixon, in a much better conference. Even Calipari lost just as much as Kansas did and has a better team on paper, albeit CUSA isn't good at all. But to even be top 10 after all they lost is still impressive.
Well the arguement is not who has the better teams with better records though. Memphis is vastly overrated and I would take Kansas over that team every day of the week.
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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How is Leonard Hamilton not on that list? 9-5 in the ACC, 22-7 overall with Duke and VT left to play, with those group of kids. The only legit NBA prospect is Solomon Alabi, and he's not highly known among draft circles. How this team is 22-7 is amazing. I thought they would be a bottom feeder in the ACC, but they're really tearing it up.
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:42 PM    (permalink
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Well the arguement is not who has the better teams with better records though. Memphis is vastly overrated and I would take Kansas over that team every day of the week.
Yes, but Kansas is overrated as well, imo. Even if Memphis is overrated, that still doesn't take away from the fact they basically lost their whole starting lineup and came back to have 3 losses.

Just the fact that you think no one can even be made a case for outside of Self is just a ridiculous homer comment, when the fact that both Capel and Dixon have a better chance of winning. Hell, the fact that Trent Johnson is left off is absurd.

Also, Anderson has done more with his team than Self has with Kansas. Yes, Kansas is 1st in the Big XII, but Mizzou has a lot less talent, had a lot worse team last year, and is only 2 losses worse in the Big XII, mainly because they had to play Oklahoma with Griffin. I mean, that's at least a valid argument for someone other than Self.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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Yes, but Kansas is overrated as well, imo. Even if Memphis is overrated, that still doesn't take away from the fact they basically lost their whole starting lineup and came back to have 3 losses.

Just the fact that you think no one can even be made a case for outside of Self is just a ridiculous homer comment, when the fact that both Capel and Dixon have a better chance of winning. Hell, the fact that Trent Johnson is left off is absurd.

Also, Anderson has done more with his team than Self has with Kansas. Yes, Kansas is 1st in the Big XII, but Mizzou has a lot less talent, had a lot worse team last year, and is only 2 losses worse in the Big XII, mainly because they had to play Oklahoma with Griffin. I mean, that's at least a valid argument for someone other than Self.
Memphis lost less players than Kansas and plus they play in a mid-major conference..That's like giving Bob McKillop the COY Award because he dominated inferior competition all year...Dixon and Capel coached with much better talent than Self. Look at the improvement over the last couple of months of this Kansas team. It is much more distinct than the improvement of any other team in the country.

FYI, Mizzou hasn't played OU yet. And I agree, I spoke too soon, I think you can make a valid argument for Anderson as COY, but honestly, I don't see the case fo Cal, Capel, Dixon, etc.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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Memphis lost less players than Kansas and plus they play in a mid-major conference..That's like giving Bob McKillop the COY Award because he dominated inferior competition all year...Dixon and Capel coached with much better talent than Self. Look at the improvement over the last couple of months of this Kansas team. It is much more distinct than the improvement of any other team in the country.

FYI, Mizzou hasn't played OU yet. And I agree, I spoke too soon, I think you can make a valid argument for Anderson as COY, but honestly, I don't see the case fo Cal, Capel, Dixon, etc.
So Self should be rewarded for not recruiting less talented players? I think you should say less experienced. The talent is probably very consistent for all of the teams.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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How is Leonard Hamilton not on that list? 9-5 in the ACC, 22-7 overall with Duke and VT left to play, with those group of kids. The only legit NBA prospect is Solomon Alabi, and he's not highly known among draft circles. How this team is 22-7 is amazing. I thought they would be a bottom feeder in the ACC, but they're really tearing it up.
I agree with that completely. I love Purnell but he already had a great team with lots of veteran experience, FSU has been a total surprise for me in the ACC. They shouldn't be beating the teams they do on a talent standpoint.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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I still don't see how Trent Johnson isn't on that list.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP View Post
I agree with that completely. I love Purnell but he already had a great team with lots of veteran experience, FSU has been a total surprise for me in the ACC. They shouldn't be beating the teams they do on a talent standpoint.
Plus, FSU beat Clemson TWICE.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by adschofield View Post
Well the COY Finalists were released today...I really don't see how you can make a legit argument for another finalist over Self, but whatever...

http://www.kansascity.com/news/break...y/1062842.html
Weber's season > Self's season
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Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by sweetness34 View Post
Weber's season > Self's season
Self>Weber

National Championship>Sitting at home watching

Should I continue?

Am I supposed to be impressed that Weber coached his team to the middle of pack in an average conference?
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Ok I'd almost rather spank my meat with sandpaper at this point.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:00 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Originally Posted by adschofield View Post
Self>Weber

National Championship>Sitting at home watching

Should I continue?

Am I supposed to be impressed that Weber coached his team to the middle of pack in an average conference?
Ha. I love it when people say stupid **** like the Big Ten is an average conference.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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Well, it's nothing better than above average, so there's that.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Ha. I love it when people say stupid **** like the Big Ten is an average conference.
He's just going to hype up his team, and he'll say what he can to do it. I wouldn't pay much mind to it.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Ha. I love it when people say stupid **** like the Big Ten is an average conference.
When compared to the other power conferences (Big East/ACC), it's pretty average. I didn't mean that it's middle of the pack when all NCAAB conferences are compared.
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Ok I'd almost rather spank my meat with sandpaper at this point.
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