The 3-4 Debate

[Ho0k Em']

Originally Posted by nepg

The DL's are on the severely short-side. Hali is too unathletic to play LB and not big/strong enough to play 3-4 DE. They don't have any starter-quality guys for OLB in a 3-4...

Lots of work to be done all-around... Main focus for UFA would switch to Chris Canty & Igor Olshansky (and Mike Wright), and a string of hopeful solutions at OLB:
Tully Banta-Cain
Rosey Colvin
Clark Haggans
Darryl Blackstock
Shantee Orr

Most of those guys would come cheap...so maybe it works... The LB's would all be 1-2 year deals on the cheap side and be solid; the DE's would cost a bit more with 3+ year deals and form a defensive line that'd be worth the price...

In the draft, they could still look out for Tyson Jackson and Jarron Gilbert in the 2nd/3rd round, but not feel as pressured to pull the trigger.

I think Hali would be fine at rushbacker. I think if we could get either Canty or Olshansky, and also Colvin I think we'd be ready for the switch this year.

Ideally I'd like to see us get Olshansky and Colvin in here, and draft Curry in the 1st. Depending on how they feel about Hali playing outside we could possibly get a Maybin(doubtful), English(doubtful), or Kruger in the 2nd.

[Splat]

I forgot about Alfonso Boone what about him playing DE in a 3-4?

[bored of education]

Boone and Ron Edwards could play DE they have better size than an Hali

[Splat]

People keep talking about Dorsey IMO Hali is the player that would be more lost in the 3-4 out of the two.

[Hermstheman83]

Originally Posted by Splat420

People keep talking about Dorsey IMO Hali is the player that would be more lost in the 3-4 out of the two.

I think he could play outside as a down linebacker. Also, in college he did drop back into zone coverage quite a bit. But I think the big reason people make sure a big deal about Dorsey moreso than Hali is that we didn't invest as much in Hali as we did in Dorsey. I'm thinking Dorsey could be a pretty productive 3-4 DE with his penetration.

Also, the more I think about the 3-4 with KC the more it makes sense. You might say that we're built more for a 4-3. I'm thinking that if DJ can play OLB in a 3-4,with his sideline-to-sideline speed, he could become very much like terrell suggs. Also, Demorrio Williams is essentially a one-dimensional speed rushing LB anyways so he(or Brian Johnston, Jason Babin, we have a lot of options here) could play that position. Donnie will probably have another productive year in him and trade down(which, realistically could be an option giving the hype of Micheal Crabtree IMO) and take Rey Maluaga at like 8(Might be way too much value there, but we'd get some picks and we'd have a somewhat decent linebacking core. Also, our Linemen might be a little bit more worrisome, but Tank Tyler is a very strong man who isn't a big ugly like Butterball(Jamall Williams) is, but I believe he's the strongest guy on the team and illustrated this in the draft. Also, Turk McBride, not a pass rusher, but he could definately clog up the line at DE.

Another option(and i don't know if I'm reading too much into this) but we could move Bernard Pollard down to ILB in the 3-4. The guy dropped a lot of weight to move down to a safety but he's still a wee bit on the big side. I'm not sure the prototypical corner in a 3-4 fits Flowers or Carr, but with Dajuan Morgan having a year under his belt, I'd say throw him in there(he's got too much potential to waste). The more I look at it, the more it seems like our guys' fit the 3-4 better than a 4-3(esp. with jared allen gone).

[Splat]

I don't understand the Pollard to LB talk the guy is 224 pounds he would get knocked around like rag doll at LB in the 4-3 let alone the 3-4.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by Hermstheman83

I'm thinking that if DJ can play OLB in a 3-4,with his sideline-to-sideline speed, he could become very much like terrell suggs.

DJ would not be an effective OLB in a 3-4.

Also, Demorrio Williams is essentially a one-dimensional speed rushing LB anyways so he(or Brian Johnston, Jason Babin, we have a lot of options here) could play that position.

No he can't. He's undersized for every position in a 3-4.

Donnie will probably have another productive year in him and trade down(which, realistically could be an option giving the hype of Micheal Crabtree IMO) and take Rey Maluaga at like 8(Might be way too much value there, but we'd get some picks and we'd have a somewhat decent linebacking core. Also, our Linemen might be a little bit more worrisome, but Tank Tyler is a very strong man who isn't a big ugly like Butterball(Jamall Williams) is, but I believe he's the strongest guy on the team and illustrated this in the draft. Also, Turk McBride, not a pass rusher, but he could definately clog up the line at DE.

Why trade down when Curry's right there?

Another option(and i don't know if I'm reading too much into this) but we could move Bernard Pollard down to ILB in the 3-4. The guy dropped a lot of weight to move down to a safety but he's still a wee bit on the big side. I'm not sure the prototypical corner in a 3-4 fits Flowers or Carr, but with Dajuan Morgan having a year under his belt, I'd say throw him in there(he's got too much potential to waste). The more I look at it, the more it seems like our guys' fit the 3-4 better than a 4-3(esp. with jared allen gone).

The Patriots experimented with Tank Williams at ILB, but it'd be silly to move one of the better SS's in the league... The entire secondary is a perfect fit for the 3-4. They just need a veteran or two to balance things.
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Live Sex

[Hermstheman83]

Originally Posted by nepg

DJ would not be an effective OLB in a 3-4.



No he can't. He's undersized for every position in a 3-4.



Why trade down when Curry's right there?



The Patriots experimented with Tank Williams at ILB, but it'd be silly to move one of the better SS's in the league... The entire secondary is a perfect fit for the 3-4. They just need a veteran or two to balance things.

DJ wouldn't be an effective OLB in the 3-4? Why not? Essentially, OLB's in a 3-4 are undersized 4-3 DE that have speed off the edge. DJ has that AND he is actually really good in coverage. BP is the same size as Donnie Edwards, in my opinion on of the most underrated Linebackers of our time, I might be mistaken, but didn't Donnie Edwards play SS in college? Curry is better than Rey or JL BUT we have a lot of holes to fill(esp on the Offensive line) and I don't really see that much of a drop off in talent. I think if they overhype Crabtree(which they will) KC should strike while the Irons' hot, especially when we can get great O-Line talent in the second round(Mack, Robinson, Loadholt, etc)

Demorrio williams was a 3-4 OLB in Atlanta dude....and was pretty successful there. I think it's important variable in the 3-4 to have Really fast OLB's to rush the QB. You just need big D-lineman to occupy double teams.

[M.O.T.H.]

3-4 OLBs need enough bulk/strength to take on opposing tackles...Williams is not a 3-4 OLB candidate. If he's playing anywhere, it will be inside. Johnson on the other hand could make for a very good ILB. He's not ideal either given his playing style but, DJ to ILB would be a lock. Also, 3-4 OLB normally arent going to be asked to cover frequently...so the fact that Johnson can cover a little would help his case more for playing ILB.

[bored of education]

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

3-4 OLBs need enough bulk/strength to take on opposing tackles...Williams is not a 3-4 OLB candidate. If he's playing anywhere, it will be inside. Johnson on the other hand could make for a very good ILB. He's not ideal either given his playing style but, DJ to ILB would be a lock. Also, 3-4 OLB normally arent going to be asked to cover frequently...so the fact that Johnson can cover a little would help his case more for playing ILB.

YEah I think Dj could be a very solid ILB in the 3-4 and not good as an OLB in 30 sets. Briant Johnston could develop into a nice 3-4 OLB.

I am still not buying the change if so..the rebuilding process will take another year or two. But the Chiefs have money to work with, and next year alot of 3-4 studs will be available.

[Ho0k Em']

Originally Posted by bored of education

YEah I think Dj could be a very solid ILB in the 3-4 and not good as an OLB in 30 sets. Briant Johnston could develop into a nice 3-4 OLB.

I am still not buying the change if so..the rebuilding process will take another year or two. But the Chiefs have money to work with, and next year alot of 3-4 studs will be available.

I really don't think it will take that long. I think we are maybe 1 or 2 players away. I'm assuming Hali can succeed at a OLB which I think he can. I really don't see why he wouldn't. The other OLB is really the only other question, especially if we draft Curry, and sign Canty or Olshanksy.

[nepg]

Originally Posted by Hermstheman83

Demorrio williams was a 3-4 OLB in Atlanta dude....and was pretty successful there. I think it's important variable in the 3-4 to have Really fast OLB's to rush the QB. You just need big D-lineman to occupy double teams.

He was an SLB in a Tampa 2 in Atlanta...
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BarbiDollxx

[bored of education]

Originally Posted by Ho0k Em'

I really don't think it will take that long. I think we are maybe 1 or 2 players away. I'm assuming Hali can succeed at a OLB which I think he can. I really don't see why he wouldn't. The other OLB is really the only other question, especially if we draft Curry, and sign Canty or Olshanksy.

We have no TRUE DE's or OLBs. KC can run the risk of finding fits..behind you need to have theTy Warren, Seymour type DEs and rush specilaists at OLB. Curry/Hali are not rush specialists. Johnston might be the only one close to a 3-4 olb.

It will take 2 full drafts and 2 full FA sessions to fuill in right places while fillign in other needs of the enitre team

[nepg]

They can do it in one off-season, but it will take another year or two to have solid all-around depth and get the rest of the team's needs settled...

The Chiefs could use a couple trade-backs. Unfortunately, it looks like the Chiefs are stuck at #3 because Crabs just doesn't look like the prospect most hoped he was right now, and the market for the OT's at #3 isn't good because there are so many of them in this draft.

The jump to get ahead of Cleveland for Curry is just too great for any team that wants/needs him, and they'd be talking to Seattle about it first anyway (who might not be so keen on Crabs anymore).
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PROBLEMS WITH PRILOSEC

[adschofield]

I haven't posted in a while, but here are my thoughts:

I love the 3-4. I think it's the best scheme in football. Look at the teams who consisently have good defenses (New England, Pitt, Baltimore), they all run 3-4 defenses (or variations of the 3-4). Now we obviously don't have the personnel to run it now, but then again, we don't have the personnel to run a 4-3 defense either, so we'll have to rebuild regardless.

McBride, Dorsey (?), and Boone could all play the 3-4 DE. And Tamba could play OLB. However, we don't really have the personnel in the middle. I'd like to see us trade down from #3, and grab Everette Brown. Sign Bart Scott, and make attempts to get Boldin and/or Cassell. Sounds like a plan to me.

Oh and I really like the Haley hire and I'm excited for the team's future.

[vidae]

Originally Posted by adschofield

I haven't posted in a while, but here are my thoughts:

I love the 3-4. I think it's the best scheme in football. Look at the teams who consisently have good defenses (New England, Pitt, Baltimore), they all run 3-4 defenses (or variations of the 3-4). Now we obviously don't have the personnel to run it now, but then again, we don't have the personnel to run a 4-3 defense either, so we'll have to rebuild regardless.

McBride, Dorsey (?), and Boone could all play the 3-4 DE. And Tamba could play OLB. However, we don't really have the personnel in the middle. I'd like to see us trade down from #3, and grab Everette Brown. Sign Bart Scott, and make attempts to get Boldin and/or Cassell. Sounds like a plan to me.

Oh and I really like the Haley hire and I'm excited for the team's future.

Oh man, an ads sighting! You better be around for the draft so you, boe and I can talk in irc again!

[adschofield]

Originally Posted by vidae-KC

Oh man, an ads sighting! You better be around for the draft so you, boe and I can talk in irc again!

Oh definitely, by that time, I won't be that busy, so I'll have the time.

[bored of education]

Vrabel is old but had a sick year 2 years ago. Would be a high charecter guy plus he is a buckeye!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope its not more than a 4th

[villagewarrior]

Adding Vrabel to the deal definetely means a switch to the 3-4. Patriot linebackers seem to play into their 100s, so hopefully Pioli and Vrabel can bring that magic dust to Kansas City.

[bored of education]

If KC does sign Haggans that gives them Vrable and Haggans as OLBs. I know they aren't Harrison/Woodley types. But they are the type of vets that could help with the transition. Veteran presence is needed for a change of this nature.

[Madirishman]

Vrabel will be a good leader for this young team. He's worth the short term investment and he came to KC on the cheap. If he could convince LJ and/or Tony to stick around, that would be an added bonus.