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Old 02-23-2009, 10:47 PM    (permalink
MooshooGawd
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Default Making A Case For Crabtree

The more that I think about it, the more I think we should take a shot with Crabtree...

Let me explain:

- We're losing TJ.
- Jason Smith and Aaron Curry look to both be gone by #6 now.
- We got little to no production out of the two WR's we drafted last year (Caldwell and Simpson)
- Drafting Crabtree gives you Chad, Crabtree, Henry, Simpson, Caldwell. Not a bad WR corp, huh?
- Chad may be 'good-Chad' now, but who knows how long that will last. When the time comes to cut ties, we wouldn't have to worry about finding a replacement. Crabtree would develop into that #1.
- The guys scores TD's.
- With him measuring in smaller than expected and with the stress fracture, he could very possibly be there at #6.

This is of course assuming that they make so moves to shore up some spots in free agency on Friday. If they can sign a RT, RB and maybe a Center, than I think we can (and should) take a risk on Crabtree.

Last edited by MooshooGawd : 02-23-2009 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 02-24-2009, 01:42 AM    (permalink
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I'd almost rather have Wells than Crabtree lol. I'm not against taking Crabtree, I just think it shouldn't be our first option.

Despite what any of us think, Marvin is backing Simpson big time right now. And while maybe he hasn't shown any fans that he's worth the shot right now, he might be giving Marvin a reason not to draft a WR.

Anyways, I don't see why anyone would really want a WR at this point. While Chris Henry has been unreliable in the past - I somehow trust him now. His interviews all seem good, he seems focused on the game and more importantly Marvin trusts him. Crabtree can't offer anything that Henry doesn't already give us at the moment either.

Hopefully we get Chatman and ocho cinco on the outside with Henry in the slot, and we rotate Simpson and Caldwell in at the appropriate times.
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Old 02-24-2009, 03:08 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bengalsrocket View Post
I'd almost rather have Wells than Crabtree lol. I'm not against taking Crabtree, I just think it shouldn't be our first option.

Despite what any of us think, Marvin is backing Simpson big time right now. And while maybe he hasn't shown any fans that he's worth the shot right now, he might be giving Marvin a reason not to draft a WR.

Anyways, I don't see why anyone would really want a WR at this point. While Chris Henry has been unreliable in the past - I somehow trust him now. His interviews all seem good, he seems focused on the game and more importantly Marvin trusts him. Crabtree can't offer anything that Henry doesn't already give us at the moment either.

Hopefully we get Chatman and ocho cinco on the outside with Henry in the slot, and we rotate Simpson and Caldwell in at the appropriate times.
I dont think Chatman can ever be a #2 guy. I think the Bengals recognized htat last year by drafting Caldwell and Simpson. I think the Bengals knew they were going to be rid of Housh this year so they prepared last season. Now they may have thought they would tag him and then let Simpson groom for another year...but that didnt happen. Take this into mind as well...maybe Caldwell or Henry have suddenly showed alot of promise. Henry has always had the possibility to be a great WR. It has just been his off the field antics that kept him from being on the field. With Ocho, Henry, Caldwell, Simpson, and was it Marcus Maxwell that was showing alot of promise last year and then got injured??? I can't remember...but slash that thought and replace with Chatman and I am satisfied with the group as a whole. I know alot of groups out there would love to have a group like that. I think using the pick even if it is a bit of a reach on a position of more need would be more important.
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:57 AM    (permalink
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Agree that Chatman days are over for me and its time to move on with the Caldwell and Simpson era. I like to see Caldwell filling TJ's role. Its Henry's time to shine and I like the fact he is working out with palmer and TJ on the left coast. Hope is that Ocho will be rebounding with a Palmer return so I think its unlikely that will go WR. My thoughts are still OT with our 1st even if they pick up C in FA and resign Benson. If they dont go OT and cant trade down for more picks, I would prefer a pass rushing DE or a RB to support and develop behind Benson. Both of these are bigger needs in my opinion than WR.
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Old 02-25-2009, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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Chatman and Holt can be released as far as I'm concerned. Crabtree may be good but can he catch balls that Palmer throws from his back?
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Old 02-25-2009, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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If we were to go WR in the first(God forbid) I would actually rather us pick up Maclin. The thing I think everyone has to take into consideration is that fact that rarely does any rookie WR make much of an impact. Maclin would be able to contribute right away in the return game if nothing else.

I'd probably **** a brick if we drafted a WR on the first day.
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Old 02-25-2009, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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They showed some little blurb on sportscenter today talking about how we would be lucky to have Crabtree fall to us at 6. Needless to say, I threw up in my mouth a little.
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Old 02-25-2009, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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The only WR I would seriously WANT in the first 3 rounds would be Hakeem Nicks. Even then I wouldn't be real excited about it, but I am higher than pretty much everyone on here on Jerome.
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Old 02-25-2009, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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I really like Simpson too. Once he can really get some work with Carson I think he will emerge. I like Kenny Britt a little more than Nicks
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Old 02-25-2009, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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I really like Simpson too. Once he can really get some work with Carson I think he will emerge. I like Kenny Britt a little more than Nicks
It will be interesting to see what happens with the WR this year. Last year who would have thought they were going to seep in the 2nd round before one was taken. Was it Devin Thomas that was predicted to maybe go in top 10? At one time Malcolm Kelly was supposed to go in the Top 15 as well...then it all slid into the second. Could it happen again this year? I don't think Crabtree will go until the second...I am pretty locked in that he will go in the first. But what if he doesnt...and everyone gets pushed to the second...in the second round, what if Crabtree is presented to us when we pick? Would you take him then?

Or what if something funky happens and some of the bigger names drop into the third? Say Nicks or Britt are there in the third?

In honesty I dont think it will happen this year. I do however think that there is a huge chance that Monroe and Jason Smith will be off the board at 6. If Crabtree isnt off or even if Raji isnt off we can create ourselves a very beautiful spot to trade back. I think there might be some teams out there that would be looking to trade up to number 6 if it is to gain a player like Crabtree or Raji, and possibly even Smith. Any of those three players could find a hard time making it past the gauntlet following the Bengal of Oakland, jacksonville, green bay, and san fran. As what I gather, Crabtree Raji, and Smith are high on Oakland Raiders fans boards...some team may try to leap frog the Raiders and grab one of those players.

Still, I highly doubt crabtree will be sitting there. I think he will be taken and I hope and pray that Either Monroe or Jason Smith are sitting there.
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Old 02-28-2009, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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For the wide receivers class last year I do not think they were as talented as this years, they all had flaws that made them fall to the second round. Really I think the Bengals need to go with Caldwell and Simpson. Caldwell showed promise at the end. Simpson was combating injuries all season. Give those two a chance at an off season with CP and we will see what will happen. The team needs to let them develop considering rookies wide receivers rarely have a huge impact, even Calvin Johnson struggled in his and he was a top five pick.
The Bengals have to protect CP, considering Andrews is on his way to Philly. Collins will probably be moved to the right side. Comes back to the left tackle, that first round needs to be a tackle and a center needs to follow closely. Hopefully one of the big offensive tackle prospects is still there at six. Even if its considered a reach I would take Oher at six if the other two are gone and we can't trade down.
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Old 02-28-2009, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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I don't like the idea of drafting a WR at all this year unless they can be a KR/PR.

A rookie OT can play well immediately and have a bigger impact than any WR would. Improving the Oline helps both the passing and running game. Unless Curry by some miracle falls, it's gotta be OT.

What makes our offense explosive is Carson having time to throw. How many times would he drop back, get a second then throw a bomb to Henry/Chad? That was not an option last year and as a result, the offense struggled. I would not be happy if we took Crabtree.

If TJ does leave, get a guy like Bryant Johnson.
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Old 03-05-2009, 08:20 AM    (permalink
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Default COles in...Please NO WR

With the signing of Coles I think it says 2 things
1. We don't have much belief in the 2 wideouts we drafed last year
or 2. Chris henry can't be counted on (which we know) and will not be a part of this team.
Either way we have plenty of holes to fill. I have said before that the way to win in this league is defense. We ranked 12 last year. If we continue to develop and have a healthy Palmer we should go 9-7..10-6. Continue to build through the draft with Defense. I know Bj raji might be a little high or Orakpo could be a bust but defense is where we should go. Stop the run and rush the QB. Our db wil look a lot better when a pass rush develops Second round get a center(Unger, Mack Wood)
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Old 03-05-2009, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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With the signing of Coles I think it says 2 things
1. We don't have much belief in the 2 wideouts we drafed last year
or 2. Chris henry can't be counted on (which we know) and will not be a part of this team.
Either way we have plenty of holes to fill. I have said before that the way to win in this league is defense. We ranked 12 last year. If we continue to develop and have a healthy Palmer we should go 9-7..10-6. Continue to build through the draft with Defense. I know Bj raji might be a little high or Orakpo could be a bust but defense is where we should go. Stop the run and rush the QB. Our db wil look a lot better when a pass rush develops Second round get a center(Unger, Mack Wood)
I'm sure Marvin still has faith in Caldwell and Simpson. Coles is a really good player though (massively underrated for what he's done with such ****** situations) and not one we want to pass on if he wants to play here.

And while many people count Chris Henry out, I'm sure he'll still be a part of this team as long as he stays out of trouble. I know everyone has heard me say it before, but Chris Henry is the most talented receiver on our team - while I understand we can't trust him, it would be a mistake to get rid of him.

Also, we've drafted defense early for the last several years, if we neglect the offense it will turn to crap quickly. We finally got our defense in good standing - it's time to draft both offense AND defense early and work on both.
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Yea, as I've said before I don't think this is a desperation move on the Bengals part because of the two younger guys. They are going about this in the right way IMO especially with Chad most likely being gone in 2010. Coles will also be a big help with Jerome and Caldwell which is something I'm sure CJ and TJ didn't exactly do previously. Instead of throwing them into the fire they are basically giving them another year to develop while still having the ability to give them both chances in certain situations.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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It would've been foolish to go into the season with Henry and two 2nd year WR's battling it out for the #2 WR spot. I count on Henry for nothing anymore, with expectations like that I can't be disappointed.

WR's are long term investments. If we're signing guys to play around them year 3 and 4, then I'll be disappointed.
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Old 03-07-2009, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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Something I saw on another board that I thought was relevant and would bring to the discussion here is this.

Henry wasn't part of the team during the 2008 draft. Simpson was probably brought in to fill the role left void by Henry. Caldwell, whom many feel is a TJ clone was then drafted to fill the void most saw coming when TJ left. That leaves you Chad, Simpson, and Caldwell as your 1-3.

Enter Coles... He's been a #1 WR at times and has the speed to go deep coupled with the ability (and willingness) to go over the middle. Why bring in Coles ?? One of two reasons that I don't have the answer to yet.

#1. Chad is on the trading block.
#2. No faith in the youngsters.

Once again, if Simpson was brought in for Henry, good. Caldwell for TJ, good. With Coles, Henry is a luxury, but isn't going anywhere entering a contract year.

Not my thought, just thought I would share as it seemed to make sense to me.
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Old 03-07-2009, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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Why bring in Coles?
Do you really want the only 2 veteran receivers on your team to be Chad Johnson and Chris Henry?
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:27 AM    (permalink
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Why bring in Coles?
Do you really want the only 2 veteran receivers on your team to be Chad Johnson and Chris Henry?
It doesn't matter what "I" want. It matters how the organization views the players. Marvin has been quoted numerous times saying how he thinks Simpson is going to play a major role in the offense this season. He's also made comments (prior to TJ leaving) how Caldwell was a WR in the "TJ mold" of things.

Fact of the matter is, those two were brought in to replace Henry and TJ and NOT Chad. If Simpson shows, he could easily produce in the mold of Henry and Caldwell was very impressive when he had his shots last season. So that leaves both Chad and Coles.

Once again, I'm not saying Chad is going anywhere. I'm simply saying it's not as far fetched as some want to make it. To answer your question about what I want, it's simple.

Trade Chad for whatever you can get for him within reason and use the pick to address a greater need on the team. This team can win 4 or more games WITHOUT Chad.

Coles, Henry, Simpson, Caldwell, name your #5. I don't care. I'm MORE than willing to move on from the circus that has plagued this team and at least make the attempt to bring in some players that have more leadership capabilities.

Just me...
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Old 03-09-2009, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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I'd be all for trading CJ as well but I just don't see how he would be worth anything right now. It'd probably just be better to keep him n see what we can get out of him.
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Old 03-09-2009, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by themaninblack View Post
I'd be all for trading CJ as well but I just don't see how he would be worth anything right now. It'd probably just be better to keep him n see what we can get out of him.
I don't see chad as being worth much after last season. Maybe if he has a good season this year he will be possible trade quality. But, if he has a good season would you still want to trade him?
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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If he has a good season then yeah I'd want to trade him if there was a good offer on the table. Is he a free agent after this season or after the next?
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Old 03-09-2009, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by themaninblack View Post
If he has a good season then yeah I'd want to trade him if there was a good offer on the table. Is he a free agent after this season or after the next?
Chad is signed through 2011. Im pretty sure he is....
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Old 03-09-2009, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by StripedWalrus View Post
I don't see chad as being worth much after last season. Maybe if he has a good season this year he will be possible trade quality. But, if he has a good season would you still want to trade him?
I would hope that teams would be smart enough to see that there were reasons for Chad's drop in performance last season. The guy missed all of the mini-camps, he got hurt, we had no running game until the very end of the year and he had Ryan Fitzpatrick throwing to him.

I don't think it's crazy to think that Chad can return to his previous form.
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