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Old 03-02-2009, 08:54 PM    (permalink
etk
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Originally Posted by DJC View Post
Sanchez (or Cutler) or bust.
I'm praying for Warner to SF. After that...who knows.

But Jerry is a clear #2 for me despite the thought of any of my top 3 receivers in a Bucs uniform.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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Do you think Jerry really suits the style of play that Bates wants to implement?
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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Do you think Jerry really suits the style of play that Bates wants to implement?
Why not? It's not like Bates is implementing some drastic overhaul in the defense. A base 4-3 with smaller, faster LBers is not much different from a Tampa 2. You still want an athletic 300 lb. pass rushing interior lineman. If anything guys like Hovan (undersized NT) and Peterson/Wilkerson (swing linemen without a position) don't fit. Then again Tennessee drafted Jason Jones so maybe Peterson does fit.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:13 PM    (permalink
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I just get the feeling that Bates wants somebody who is stronger against the run than Jerry is.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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Bates likes big DT's though, like 320+ lbs. Peria is barely 300 lbs. I think that's part of the reason why we didn't even attempt to bring Haye back. I think we might take a flier on someone like Lee Hill in the later rounds.

Stafford and Sanchez are atop my BB for the Bucs right now. I think we could have a legit shot at either of them. I'd love for us to land either too. After them, it's the best player available at WR or LB. Maclin for me is right behind the two QBs, but he'll likely be gone by our pick. After him I'd go with Nicks. If we go LB, I could see anyone from Cushing to Sintim to Matthews being the pick. Given the guys likely to be available, I'd rather go WR. Some dark horses I could see are Larry English, or a CB like Alphonso or Moore if no one is signed in FA.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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Problem is, 320+ lb. DTs don't rush the passer so well. Interior pass rush was a huge problem for us last year and will only get worse without Haye. We have Ryan Sims and Dre Moore, but we need someone who can get to the QB. We need to get Jerry or Ziggy Hood. Jerry played NT at Ole Miss and he's solid against the run.

Cushing, Sintim or Matthews. I'll vomit. Matthews is the only good backer out of the 3 but all fit best in a 3-4.

Let's not jump to conclusions about the defensive overhaul, K. We still have almost the same positional coaches and we brought back Joe Barry to coach the LBs. We're not going after the Ron Braces, Clint Sintims and Sean Smiths of the world just yet.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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I'm just going by what I've heard from press conferences with Raheem and Bates. It sounds like we're going to be drifting towards Bates system. I personally prefer Ziggy Hood and Sen'Derrick Marks types over Ron Brace types and , but I'm not sure thats what the Bucs want now. I mean, we were pretty close to signing Colin Cole before the Seahawks got him. I guess we'll see for sure soon enough.
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Old 03-04-2009, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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I think Hood may be pretty close to what Bates likes. He's not huge like Raji and Brace, but he's decidedly bigger than Jerry and Marks, very strong, and relentless in his effort.
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Old 03-04-2009, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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I think Jerry is better against the run than Hood. Haven't seen enough of Marks to comment.

"Decidedly bigger than Jerry and Marks"????

Evander Hood - 6'3" 300
Peria Jerry - 6'2" 299
Sen'Derrick Marks - 6'2" 306

Hood actually has the least bulk of the 3.
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Old 03-05-2009, 07:57 AM    (permalink
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Problem is, 320+ lb. DTs don't rush the passer so well. Interior pass rush was a huge problem for us last year and will only get worse without Haye. We have Ryan Sims and Dre Moore, but we need someone who can get to the QB. We need to get Jerry or Ziggy Hood. Jerry played NT at Ole Miss and he's solid against the run.

Here's a couple of posts I made over on the Bucs.com board.....

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First, let me start off by saying that I've been studying what Bates' likes in his defense, and in particular the LB's. To understand what he wants out of the LB's, we need to have a more comprehensive understanding on the defense as a whole.

My first thought when it was said that Cato June and Derrick Brooks no longer "fit the scheme", as was said, I immediately thought it was in reference to their size and speed. In fact, we have all begun thinking that it meant Bates' scheme needed larger LB's that play downhill and are generally regarded as "thumpers". That.... was wrong. So very wrong. The particular skill that Brooks and June had in Kiffin's defense, was their OLB responsibilities in regards to zone pass coverage. Those are the skills that no longer fit this new scheme. We still need pursuit, lateral speed and quickness on the outside with the ability to fill gaps. Maybe moreso than before.

It's pretty simple, really.

DT

On the DL, the DT's are pluggers. Between the two of them, they need to occupy all 3 interior OL somehow. The NT's primary responsibility is the weakside "A" gap, and secondary is the strongside "A" gap. The UT's primary responsibility is the strongside "B" gap, with secondary responsibility on the strongside "A" gap.

DE

The DE's are basic 6-techniques. We complain that Gaines Adams always does the "loop" around the OT. Well, that's what Bates' defense needs. DE's that occupy the "D" gaps and force the run play into the "C" gaps and force a QB into a pocket, bottling him up.

OLB

Both the Will and Sam 'backers play off the tail of the DE on their side, and have two responsibilities. Upon reading run, fill the "C" gap or force the cutback inside and collapse with help from the MLB and SS. Upon reading pass, assume a zone coverage flowing to the outside or man-up on the TE, FB/RB or slot-WR if spread out.... depending on the playcall. Both OLB's need to have blitz ability.

MLB

The Mike 'backer, in this case Barrett Ruud, is the funnel. He is the flow guy. If he reads the play in the A or B gap, he cleans up after the DT's and collects the flow off the inside shoulders of his OLB's. On passing plays, he's primarily got the short/intermediate zone to take away crossing routes and force the QB to put anything in his zone over the top. The secondary objective is to be a backup to his OLB if he has man coverage on a RB. Different offensive formations can alter the duty to deep zone or in dime packages man coverage on a TE or RB.

CB

The CB's in man coverage do just that. Mirror the WR spread the furthest out on pass plays. Stay in his back pocket. If they are the playside CB, they have to collapse and force the play back to the middle and they can't give up the sideline. The backside CB has to flow to the play, but keep in position for the cutback.

FS/SS

Both safeties responsibilities don't really change much at all from the previous scheme. As they are the last line of defense, their first priority is on the pass. The FS in Bates defense will mostly play a Cover 1 deep zone, reading the QB all the way. The SS will have priority coverage on any TE's or slot WR's. He should be comfortable in man coverage, but well versed in zone. Upon reading run, the SS's main responsibility is the "E" gap, which is the gap between the CB and Sam 'backer. The FS collapses behind the MLB, cleaning up any missed tackles and along with the CB taking away the backside running lane for the RB.




-----------------------------------------------------------

I think Geno Hayes or Quincy Black will get a shot at becoming a starting LB in 2009. A camp battle, if you will. Likely at WLB, but I think they fit better at SLB. Either way, one of those two guys will probably be in the starting lineup. Niko Koutouvides is a backup. I know folks immediately jumped on the LB wagon the other day, and I'm guilty of it too, but after carefully considering the situation, I'm not so sure we go LB in round 1. Curry is the guy that fits, but he's out of reach. Cushing..... maybe. The options don't fit.

This draft is deep at RB, WR and along the OL. As we're pretty set on the OL, I don't think we'll be spending a whole lot of resources on the big uglies. Though, if a guy like Michael Oher falls to #19.... it would be hard to pass him up. Think RT. The CB group is interesting, as some guys show flashes, and only a few guys stand out. Big need for us still, and there may only be 1 DB off the board when we pick. Good value still there.

I don't see us adding much of anything more in free agency.

All that said..... here's where I think we're going right now and how we address the defense....




Round 1 - Alphonso Smith, CB, Wake Forest - a smaller CB who excels in man coverage. Has good change of direction skills with fluid hips, reads the QB very well and is as aggressive as you want your corners to be. Has excellent break on the ball, and has the ball skills to make the play and return for positive yards. Even at 5'9", he is very willing and able in run support. Tackles well. With Talib on the other side handling the larger WR's we may face, Smith is perfectly suited to cover the smaller, quicker WR's we see at least 6 times a year in our own division. Steve Smith. Roddy White. Lance Moore. Alphonso Smith is a guy who can neutralize them.

Round 2 - traded for Kellen Winslow Jr.

Round 3 - Lawrence Sidbury Jr., DE, Richmond - a pass rushing extraordinaire, he fits the mold of guys past that Bates just loves. In the same mold as Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila and Wally Ogunleye, guys that thrived under Bates, Sidbury is very aggressive rushing the passer, has some good strength and plays with good leverage. Initially would be a situational pass rusher, but could work his way into the rotation more.

Round 4 - Nic Harris, OLB, Oklahoma - played primarily as a safety at OU, but at 6'3" and 235lbs he is OLB material. Tackles very well, and while his lateral speed and quickness is questioned as a safety, it is very good for a LB. Perfect fit in an aggressive defense that wants it's OLB's to play the run well, but have the ability to pass defend and blitz when needed.

Round 5 -Jarett Dillard, WR, Rice - nothing jumps out at you with this guy, but I am sold. If you told me this was Greg Jennings little brother, watching the tape on him.... I'd believe it. What he lacks in top end speed, he makes up for in reliable hands, excellent sharp route running and fight for the ball. In a WCO, this guy will thrive.

Round 6 - Roy Miller, DT, Texas - a 6'1", 310lb true NT, Miller brings with him a wealth of experience, having played 49 games with the Longhorns and excelling in his role. A true big ugly, in that he was overshadowed by higher profile defensive teammates, Miller was a key part of the D. Has an excellent motor, plays with very good leverage and uses his hands to disengage blocks well. He tackles well, even if he isn't a pass rusher. A monstrous value at this point in the draft, as he's flying well below the radar.

Round 7 - Patrick Turner, WR, USC - a big WR, with long arms and good hands. For a possession receiver, does not run the type of routes you would like as he is slow out of his cuts, but is an end-zone threat regardless due to his dexterity and body control. Looks incredibly smooth catching passes, but won't exploit mismatches like you would hope. Needs work, obviously, but could still be productive.

Quote:
I've added the gaps in there for everyone who didn't know this, as well as the technique numbers based on where they would line up.



Under Bates' system, the emphasis is no longer on an interior pass rush, but a rush from the outside. The DT's are pluggers and run stuffers.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:01 AM    (permalink
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Meh. I don't like any of the posts on the Buccaneers.com board. All whiners and cry babies every time change occurs.
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Old 03-05-2009, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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Here's a couple of posts I made over on the Bucs.com board.....








Under Bates' system, the emphasis is no longer on an interior pass rush, but a rush from the outside. The DT's are pluggers and run stuffers.
The defense doesn't sound very complicated, aside from the roles of the DTs.

I'm cool with that draft except for 2 picks. Sidbury is a great talent but he's just another edge rusher. We need a starting caliber LDE. We don't have one. Adams is your 6-tech as you call it and White is his backup.

Nic Harris is overrated as a LB prospect. I'd much rather draft Kaluka Maiava or someone similar.

I'm not sure that Roy Miller is a true NT, but he fits at UT in this scheme. Same with Myron Pryor who many are labeling as a potential NT.
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Old 03-06-2009, 12:42 AM    (permalink
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No, Jerry does not fit what Bates wants to do. I am going to update my main post soon with different options. I wrote that before totally understanding Bates' defense.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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The defense doesn't sound very complicated, aside from the roles of the DTs.

I'm cool with that draft except for 2 picks. Sidbury is a great talent but he's just another edge rusher. We need a starting caliber LDE. We don't have one. Adams is your 6-tech as you call it and White is his backup.

Nic Harris is overrated as a LB prospect. I'd much rather draft Kaluka Maiava or someone similar.

I'm not sure that Roy Miller is a true NT, but he fits at UT in this scheme. Same with Myron Pryor who many are labeling as a potential NT.


Had to make that post at bucs.com because there was alot of misconceptions, and I just added the mock to give an idea of the direction we'll probably be going.
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