New York Jets Discussion - Page 199

Young Nasty Man · 03-17-2009, 02:05 PM

Im not so hot on Cutler trades. Its goign to over price us and I prefer to keep our picks and do the work there...

This Josh Freeman stuff is really starting to interest me. Don't really know how i feel about it anymore...

The Great Jonathan Vilma · 03-17-2009, 02:06 PM

I would happily give up our first rounder and something like a 4th for Cutler, but the problem is that you need to have a 3rd party involved, or the Broncos need to be high on Josh Freeman.

I don't see us getting Cutler, although i will say that i don't think the 'attitude' stuff is something to worry about. The Broncos are a joke, and i wouldn't feel all that great if the first thing my new coach does is try to trade me....

jetvilma51 · 03-17-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmess15

the daily news says Thomas Jones wants a new pact...

yea i heard this. he deffinently deserves one cuz he only got paid 900K last year, so it looks like Leon, Mangold, and Jones should all get resigned or at least i hope so

jmess15 · 03-17-2009, 02:17 PM

I've heard that the Jets shouldnt go after Cutler because of his immaturity. The good thing about immaturity is that most people grow out of it.

The way I see it if we are planning on taking a QB # 1 this year then its a no brainer to give up our # 1 this year ( I am aware it will cost more than that). At least you know what you have instead of gambling on a potential rookie. Drafting a QB in round 1 is a 50-50 proposition at best, so when you know you have a sure thing why not go for it?

TimD · 03-17-2009, 02:24 PM

There's a lot of Freeman talk. I'm not too sure how I feel about it either. He is a physical freak. If B Schott can teach him it'd be sick

derza222 · 03-17-2009, 02:33 PM

The thing with Cutler is the immaturity talk started awhile ago. A lot of people around the league just aren't fans of the guy.

The other thing is you probably have to give up the house to get him. Our first clearly isn't going to get the job done. I'm not exactly a fan of giving up our first second and third as Clayton said it might take, and I'm not sure just picks gets it done.

So if we aren't giving up just picks, we may be moving our first and a player. Not sure there are really any young, good players that Denver is going to want that I'd like to trade. Given this isn't a stellar situation for a QB either, I have some concerns moving one of our better young players. And given we've done so much work on the defensive side of the ball, are we going to give up an offensive player for an offensive player? Granted QB is a weak position, but we're lacking talent enough on that side of the ball as it is.

For a team that isn't a QB away and doesn't have a lot of great pieces to give up, I think a Cutler deal and what it takes to get it done cripples us big time. By the end of it we'll have Cutler, Cotch, Keller (presumably), Thomas "I want a new contract" Jones, and maybe a couple young WR's and the OL. Plus LW if we're lucky, but in that case who do we give up? Jenkins? Revis? Rhodes?

Freeman talk scares me. I mean lets not lie the guys an intriguing prospect with a great arm and a ton of projectability. If he comes off well in interviews and seems smart enough to pick up an offense, I can see why a team would get a boner over him.

But first of all, it comes off as one of those a team is being cocky thinking they can coach a guy up when he isn't there yet. And if we can, great. But if not then you're just wasting a first round pick on a guy, and that's usually how it goes.

The other thing that bugs me is I'm not sure this is a really stable situation for a young QB to grow up in long-term. Right now we can't throw a guy like Freeman in there, so he'll have to wait in the wings for a few years, right? I have two concerns there. One is that Schottenheimer seems to have one foot out the door already and unless we hire from within and keep very similar offensive systems, the guy has a great chance of having a coordinator/system change early in his career which is not good for a young QB obviously. Maybe he sticks around the 5 years or so it'll take to develop him and get him on his feet as a starter, but color me skeptical. The other is that by the time the guy is ready to start Jones is probably gone and the aging OL is older. We'll probably have less of a running game and the protection might not be as good. I just don't think this is a good situation for a guy that needs long-term development like Freeman and he's got enough of a bust factor to worry me as it is.

Also rotoworld says we matched the 1 year $1.5 offer sheet Elam signed with the Browns. Interesting we'll have him back. I think he could potentially excel in Rex's scheme, and gives us some nice depth. Really doubt we draft a SS at this point, though. Maybe a FS late for depth but that's about all I can see.

TimD · 03-17-2009, 05:58 PM

Always a fan of Elam. He's not just a SS, he can rush the passer as an OLB, which he found success in late in the season. I love a guy who is versatile and can do more than 1 thing for our team, especially when he's there for depth. I think 1.5 mil for him is well worth it. If we need a goalline stand you can bet he'll be out there to defend a pass or come in to slam the door shut. Always a fan of him. Hard hitting, fast playmaker.

Crickett · 03-17-2009, 10:20 PM

There is one important thing I learned today.

What would that be John?

J

E

T

S

JETS!!!!
JETS!!!!
JETS!!!!

YYYYYYYEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

John Oliver ftw.

josh07039 · 03-17-2009, 10:32 PM

With all the Cutler and Freeman talk, I thought I would just give my two cents.

Im not sure if im the only one who feels this way, but I dont want Freeman or Sanchez. If by some twist of fate, sanchez goes ahead of stafford and he falls out of the top 10, I would totally want him, but otherwise I dont think it makes much sense to take a qb.

We have a championship defense right now. And both Freeman and Sanchez don't seem likely to be able to step in day 1 and excel. Sanchez only had one year starting experience and Freeman is, by all accounts, still fairly raw and inconsistent.

It just seems like a first rounder would be better spent on wr because whatever qb we have in there, whether he is a draftee, a signee, or someone already on the roster, he will need more weapons. Additionally, if we are operating under that assumption that we are not going to sign a veteran qb, then whether we draft someone or go with a guy we have, hes an unproven entity. Wouldn't we be better off with an unproven entity that also has a 1st rounder receiver coming in to bolster the offense?

derza222 · 03-17-2009, 10:40 PM

I agree, but to play devils advocate, couldn't you assume it would take a receiver awhile to make an impact as well? Generally it does...and we do have some unproven/talented youth there with guys like Clowney and Stuckey. Again just playing devils advocate there for fun, to be honest all of this Freeman talk has me really bummed about the draft right now. Only consolation is what we might have if he actually pans out...but I don't think any of us are counting on that. I'll clearly root for the guy big time if we draft him but beyond his already shaky chance of panning out I think this is a pretty bad situation for him to be in.

By the way, are mocks getting a little boring to look at for anyone? It seems like every single mock has us drafting Sanchez except for the so called "experts" on like nfl.com or ESPN that have us making ridiculous picks like Alphonso Smith or Harvin. And to be quite honest I don't see Sanchez being there, so I'd like to see some other scenarios there. Wish toonster would put one out...

thetedginnshow · 03-17-2009, 10:51 PM

The thing that scares me the most is that there's actually a lot of Jets fans that are getting behind a Josh Freeman selection, partly because all the media outlets keep hyping him, and partly because the only time they've ever seen him play is what's available to them on YouTube.

josh07039 · 03-17-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derza222

I agree, but to play devils advocate, couldn't you assume it would take a receiver awhile to make an impact as well? Generally it does...and we do have some unproven/talented youth there with guys like Clowney and Stuckey. Again just playing devils advocate there for fun, to be honest all of this Freeman talk has me really bummed about the draft right now. Only consolation is what we might have if he actually pans out...but I don't think any of us are counting on that. I'll clearly root for the guy big time if we draft him but beyond his already shaky chance of panning out I think this is a pretty bad situation for him to be in.

By the way, are mocks getting a little boring to look at for anyone? It seems like every single mock has us drafting Sanchez except for the so called "experts" on like nfl.com or ESPN that have us making ridiculous picks like Alphonso Smith or Harvin. And to be quite honest I don't see Sanchez being there, so I'd like to see some other scenarios there. Wish toonster would put one out...

I know you're are all about fun Derza.

My feeling on Qb's also ties into my opinion on wrs. We can't take DHB or Harvin because DHB is the least likely to be ready right away and Harvin isn't a typical wr. We need Maclin, Nicks, or Britt. All three of those guys can provide an instant impact. Nicks is polished and can be another 2 alongside Cotchery hopefully right away because of his route running ability. It is not ideal, but he is better than starting the season with Stuckey next to Cotchery. Britt can immediately be a red zone threat that can go across the middle. His size and experience with poorly thrown balls(Love Teel, but his accuracy sucks at times) will really help a young qb. Maclin could be the next smallish wr(desean/royal/ginn showed flashes last year) to be a weapon that can absolutley torch a defense.

I'm not saying I believe any of those three could be a number one guy right away(an in Nicks' case, I'm not sure he ever will), but I do think each one could contribute and make life easier for a young qb.

I agree that we have a few guys on the roster that are promising, but I don't really see any of those guys becoming number 1/game breaking receivers. Clowney should be a really good slot guy because of his speed. Stuckey definitely has some talent and his best case scenario could be as a number 2. Until Brad Smith does something to earn my attention, he is dead to me.

derza222 · 03-17-2009, 10:56 PM

At least he played in a pro style offense and has some experience...plus no supporting cast question marks. It's really just his level of play which makes him easier to evaluate at least IMO.

I still find it hilarious that most Jets fans are already proclaiming Sanchez a bust while most draft followers are calling Freeman a bust. Obviously way too early for either, but if one of them seems like more of a sure bet at this point...

derza222 · 03-17-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh07039

I know you're are all about fun Derza.

My feeling on Qb's also ties into my opinion on wrs. We can't take DHB or Harvin because DHB is the least likely to be ready right away and Harvin isn't a typical wr. We need Maclin, Nicks, or Britt. All three of those guys can provide an instant impact. Nicks is polished and can be another 2 alongside Cotchery hopefully right away because of his route running ability. It is not ideal, but he is better than starting the season with Stuckey next to Cotchery. Britt can immediately be a red zone threat that can go across the middle. His size and experience with poorly thrown balls(Love Teel, but his accuracy sucks at times) will really help a young qb. Maclin could be the next smallish wr(desean/royal/ginn showed flashes last year) to be a weapon that can absolutley torch a defense.

I'm not saying I believe any of those three could be a number one guy right away(an in Nicks' case, I'm not sure he ever will), but I do think each one could contribute and make life easier for a young qb.

I agree that we have a few guys on the roster that are promising, but I don't really see any of those guys becoming number 1/game breaking receivers. Clowney should be a really good slot guy because of his speed. Stuckey definitely has some talent and his best case scenario could be as a number 2. Until Brad Smith does something to earn my attention, he is dead to me.

Note the lack of mention of Smith in my previous post. I didn't forget about him.

I do agree with your sentiment about fits there. DHB would have been a fantastic fit IMO, but with the slicing of Coles as you said it's unrealistic. Harvin would have been more intriguing than anything else, but a scary pick overall. Things change considerably if we bring in a starting-caliber vet, though pickings are getting slim at this point. I always thought Galloway would have been worth a shot as a stopgap but he's good night moon at this point, and Holt's probably going to cost too much and want too much of a long-term deal.

Out of the three you mentioned I like Maclin and Britt the most for us because they're different from what we have. Still love Nicks and I'd be happy with the pick, but he reminds me too much of a rocked up Cotchery at this point. He's probably the best bet to make an early impact though IMO. He'd do some nasty things on a team like the Dolphins across from Ginn getting the ball on more possession oriented routes and beating teams up after the catch. Like I said I'd end up liking it but the fit isn't exactly ideal.

Britt I love because he's big and can get deep. You're actually a perfect guy to ask, and I threw this out in a couple of other threads and got no reply, what about Braylon Edwards for a comparision? About 6'3, good but not great speed, big play ability, can get vertical, and some hands issues at times. Just adds a different element to our offense and I think would be a fantastic fit.

Maclin I doubt is there but would be a great fit also, my personal favorite. Really could stretch the field, make some things happen after the catch like the other two but in a more shifty manner, and add some much-needed speed to our offense. Plus he's at least bigger than most of the tiny guys. Think we'd have to move up to grab him, though.

Crickett · 03-17-2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derza222

I agree, but to play devils advocate, couldn't you assume it would take a receiver awhile to make an impact as well? Generally it does...and we do have some unproven/talented youth there with guys like Clowney and Stuckey. Again just playing devils advocate there for fun, to be honest all of this Freeman talk has me really bummed about the draft right now. Only consolation is what we might have if he actually pans out...but I don't think any of us are counting on that. I'll clearly root for the guy big time if we draft him but beyond his already shaky chance of panning out I think this is a pretty bad situation for him to be in.

Yes, the Jets have unproven talent in Clowney and Stuckey. Which would be great if it didn't seem like the Jets are going to be completely reliant on them to succeed after two seasons where they showed very little, even in the preseasons.

I'm bummed to. So far I've liked every move the Jets have made this off-season, but I'm gearing up for a big letdown come draft day. :(

derza222 · 03-17-2009, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crickett

Yes, the Jets have unproven talent in Clowney and Stuckey. Which would be great if it didn't seem like the Jets are going to be completely reliant on them to succeed after two seasons where they showed very little, even in the preseasons.

I'm bummed to. So far I've liked every move the Jets have made this off-season, but I'm gearing up for a big letdown come draft day. :(

I really agree with you there, I'm just not sure exactly how far separated Clemens and Ratliff are from Clowney and Stuckey. I mean there's definitely some separation there and Clemens has clearly proved more than Stuckey, Clowney and Ratliff are probably in the same boat without really having proved much. But is the talent/experience gap really that wide? And is a WR really going to have that much of a bigger impact? I think the talent/experience and early impact all favor WR's at this point, but it's not like it's far and away the case.

Hopefully they don't let us down. And remember, with whatever pick we make, it probably could have been worse. Unless we take like Michael Johnson as somebody brought up in another thread. Then I might cry.

thetedginnshow · 03-17-2009, 11:07 PM

Speaking of Cotchery, I was looking at some stuff and he reminds me a lot of Derrick Mason. For some reason it makes me think he'll have a better version of Mason's past season in '09.

But really, there's so many prospects I'm terrified of (at least hopefully now Vontae Davis is ruled out, who I know was loved by a lot of Jets fans), I'd probably be one of the only Jets fans excited if we actually ended up trading away our first this year.

derza222 · 03-17-2009, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetedginnshow

Speaking of Cotchery, I was looking at some stuff and he reminds me a lot of Derrick Mason. For some reason it makes me think he'll have a better version of Mason's past season in '09.

But really, there's so many prospects I'm terrified of (at least hopefully now Vontae Davis is ruled out, who I know was loved by a lot of Jets fans), I'd probably be one of the only Jets fans excited if we actually ended up trading away our first this year.

For a first next year? Depending on the team, I could definitely dig it at this point. Down into the second I really wouldn't have too much of a problem with either, but I'd prefer the future first.

thetedginnshow · 03-18-2009, 12:34 AM

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...th-to-the-jets

This is a good man.

thetedginnshow · 03-18-2009, 05:22 AM

I saw on NFL Network about on the back page of... I believe the Times, maybe the Daily News, there was a giant warning for the Jets to not trade for Cutler. Kind of makes me feel as though we won't do it. On subjects like that, they seem to not want to stray from the perceived public opinion all too much.

Now I just need a warning about Freeman.

derza222 · 03-18-2009, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetedginnshow

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...th-to-the-jets

This is a good man.

That would be intriguing. Especially for that price. Somewhere between a 4th and a 7th? I'd do that in a heartbeat. Wonder if its just kind of BS speculation or if there's actually something to it, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetedginnshow

I saw on NFL Network about on the back page of... I believe the Times, maybe the Daily News, there was a giant warning for the Jets to not trade for Cutler. Kind of makes me feel as though we won't do it. On subjects like that, they seem to not want to stray from the perceived public opinion all too much.

Now I just need a warning about Freeman.

I wish I could write that article. I'd have it out for tomorrow's paper. Freakin journalists that know nothing about the draft...

BroadwayJoe10 · 03-18-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetedginnshow

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...th-to-the-jets

This is a good man.

Haha. I know you've got a thing for Troy Smith ;), but I don't see any legs for this story.

Not sure if you checked, but this article was written by a 16 year old high school student from Connecticut.

I will agree that Smith hasn't gotten too much of a chance to show what he can do.

thetedginnshow · 03-18-2009, 10:45 AM

Oh I don't take anything from the Bleacher Report to heart, but maybe, just maybe, T-Rex decided to surf the web and get some ideas for the off-season. :)

thetedginnshow · 03-18-2009, 11:39 AM

Oh my god. Scott just said Freeman in the first, Louis Murphy in the third for our draft. He's so mean to us. :(

derza222 · 03-18-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetedginnshow

Oh my god. Scott just said Freeman in the first, Louis Murphy in the third for our draft. He's so mean to us. :(

At least Jarron Gilbert's in there...

EDIT:

Know what the worst part is? Go on most Jets forums and that's an ideal first three rounds, with Gilbert being the biggest question mark.