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Old 04-03-2009, 12:41 AM    (permalink
GB12
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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
Boldin would wipe his ass with Greg Jennings, and then use Brandon Marshall as his wet wipe.

Then he'll run you over, even if he has a broken face.
1. What the ****

2. What does Boldin have to do with anything?

3. In 2007 Greg Jennings had the best YAC of all WRs with at least 10 catches. That is a fact, it can't be argued. Jennings had an average of 7.5, which killed Marshall's 5.5. Marshall was near the top, but he still didn't come close to Jennings.
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Old 04-03-2009, 12:48 AM    (permalink
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couldnt find a thread on best wr core in nfl, only tandem in afc, the packers #5 ruvell martin would be the #1 in minn or chicago (nice weapon for cutler, err they have electric hester) driver has been the most underrated wr the last 5/6 years, jennings is easily a top 5 young wr and the best yac wr in the league, james jones is boldin jr and jordy nelson can run jump and catch even though hes white, making it much more impressive.

bears can have cutler, hester and ummm, well they can have those two.
ill take rodgers and the 5 pack.
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Old 04-03-2009, 03:43 AM    (permalink
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I'd say best AFC Tandem is Ted Ginn Jr. and Greg Camarillo.....

oh wait...not even close.

In reality, as much as I hate to say it, Moss and Welker.

And not trying to rag on Marshall, but after watching (yes, I did watch it) the whole Miami Dolphins vs. Denver Broncos game, I lost a lot of respect for Marshall. I can't stand it when players act like T.O. on and off the field.
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Old 04-03-2009, 05:50 AM    (permalink
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bamafalcons hasn't been dismantled yet for being a complete troll?

sure, he has 8k posts, but has he said anything useful?

not much. jennings is still better than marshall. marshall is kinda stupid, not giong to lie... he's not the brightest book on the shelf... i wish i had distance tracker kinda like what they do with devin hester on returns with brandon mizzarshall.
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Old 04-03-2009, 06:09 AM    (permalink
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Ill take Matt Jones and a rolled up 20 dollar bill.
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Old 04-03-2009, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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bamafalcons hasn't been dismantled yet for being a complete troll?

sure, he has 8k posts, but has he said anything useful?

not much. jennings is still better than marshall. marshall is kinda stupid, not giong to lie... he's not the brightest book on the shelf... i wish i had distance tracker kinda like what they do with devin hester on returns with brandon mizzarshall.
Still bitter over BC getting beat by VT, and Darren Evans proving you wrong. It's ok, time heals all.

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
random crappy images. i can post stupid pictures, too, but my argument doesn't need them.

I know, you can make insults with your type.

again, all you've done is quote that one stat. i quoted TWO examples of where stats were a crappy measure of a player's ability because of the situation. and all you do is continue to post the same stats without taking any part of his gameplay into account. all that you've shown is that you can incorrectly interpret a score sheet. which is cool and all, but is hardly productive.

I've actually quoted multiple. And unless you edit his player page, the arguement stands.

the other parts of the game haven't been there because shanahan never called them. in fact, in the san diego game i referenced, there were, iirc, 3 passes to marshall deep. cutler missed on each of them. it's not because marshall "couldn't make a big play," it's because he was over/under thrown. but then, that's not reflected in your precious little box scores, so it must not be relevant.

Did it ever occur to you that Shanahan, an offensive genius, didn't call them because Marshall's skills were not suited to them. It's not like Shanahan was opposed to a vertical passing game. When Lelie was there he made him run deep routes because that was what he was good at. Marshall hasn't shown that capabilty. If he does show it, I'll concede.

It's akin to draftniks saying runninbacks don't have good hands, even if they haven't been thrown at often. The lack of production in that area doesn't neccessarily prove that he has bad hands, but it needs to be proven. A player doesn't have a capability until he proves it, otherwise what use is it?


addressed above. i'm curious if you can even talk about why without quoting the same ypc stat that i've repeatedly shown is worthless in this case.

And again, I'm not going to say he has the ability to be a deep threat until he proves it. If he has the capability, he definitely hasn't showed it. And that means he lacks that dimension to his game. Same with his redzone skills.

yeah, what a crappy player. he should've been calling his own number when shanahan kept calling for dives up the middle. boy. if only he could've you know, run a route. again, the ONLY evidence you have here is a low touchdown total. and i've AGAIN repeatedly told you why it's a worthless stat. do yourself a favor, and go find some tape. then we can have a real discussion.

If Marshall had great fade route ability they would have given him more opportunities. Shanahan is not an idiot, if he had a player with great jump ball or redzone ability he would surely utilize it. Again, if Marshall gos out and pulls in 10 TDs this season I'll change my stance. He won't be a great redzone threat till he proves it.

what, exactly, should he be?

With his size he should be a great, proven redzone threat.

100% true.



depends how you rate him. but i've not once suggested he's a lock for best receiver in the game.



as do almost all of the best players. tom brady looks a lot better in new england than he would have in the jake plummer offense in denver. marshall faulk looked a lot better in st. louis than he would have in a smashmouth run offense. does that somehow make them worse players?

Players like Brady and Faulk showed the ability to succeed in multiple ways. Brady succeeded in a traditional pro style offense, as well as a spread. Showed the ability to make every throw. Faulk was not a horse as far aspower, but he had the total package. Thus far Marshall hasn't shown many dimensions to his game.

The fact is, although some believe Marshall has those dimensions, he hasn't proven it. I may believe Jerious Norwood is a great inside runner, but we only utilize him on tosses so it is a mute point.
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Old 04-03-2009, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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bamafalcons hasn't been dismantled yet for being a complete troll?

sure, he has 8k posts, but has he said anything useful?
I was about to post "ZOMGZ VIRGINIA TECH IS AWEZOME!!!!!!!!!ELEVENTYFOUR!!!!!!!!" and then...

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Originally Posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
Still bitter over BC getting beat by VT, and Darren Evans proving you wrong. It's ok, time heals all.
Too predictable. Tell me more about how Evans is an elite back with his super duper 4.4 ypc.
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Old 04-03-2009, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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Dwayne Bowe > bamaFalcon ****! :D
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 04-03-2009, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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wait, are you saying we had a line?
well they certainly looked good against the bears pass rush.
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Old 04-03-2009, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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i'd assume then, that you'd be willing to make the argument that reggie bush is by far the worst starting running back in the nfl. given his stats. which is ALL you've quoted thus far. you've said nothing that suggests you've looked any deeper, and in fact have many times suggested that you ONLY need to see the stat sheet. so no, you've really made ONE argument, that consists SOLELY of quoting his TD numbers and his ypr numbers. neither is a compelling argument, neither has been a compelling argument. especially when stacked against, you know, actually seeing a guy play.

I've seen Reggie Bush play many times, and he is a horrible runningback as far as running the ball. He is an excellent receiver out of the backfield, and his stats reflect that. Also a good punt returner, stats show that. Poor arguement.

it hasn't occured to me once over the past decade that shanahan WAS an offensive genius, no. but then, i've actually bothered watching a game or two. so the fact that you again have no idea what you're talking about doesn't surprise me.

Considering the points he put up, I'll stick with my opinion.

no, it's because he wasn't capable of running any other routes. what's funny is that in all this "offensive genius" crap, shanahan kept calling a route that plummer wasn't capable of throwing. it's not like he's called plays to the offenses strength at any point since TD left.

How do you know he can effectively run other routes? He hasn't done it to this point.

no you won't, because you'd actually have to watch a game to see it. otherwise, you'll just twist some new stats to suggest that you somehow know what you're talking about.

Blah blah blah.

only if said draftniks have seen that player. otherwise, it's mindless drivel.



which has no relevance to their ability to catch.

If a RB like Knowshon, who has excellent hands, had Chris Wells type receiving numbers, then that would be a negative in his game, no matter his hands. Marshall's lack of productivity in the deep game or in the redzone hasn't been proven, therefor it is not a positive. He is not a complete WR if he hasn't been effective in anything other than these YAC routes.

thanks for making my own argument for me. let me know when you actually watch marshall, then we can talk about proof, which DOES NOT COME SOLELY FROM STATS.

Not just stats. If the RB hasn't been thrown at, then it is an unknown if he has great hands. That is generally a negative. Marshall hasn't shown the ability to be productive in many facets. You may keep saying he hasn't done it because of..., but the point is he hasn't done it and because of that is not the total package.

and yet, the only proof you're willing to accept is in the stat lines. again, let me know the next time you actually see a broncos game, and we might be able to have a reasonable discussion. until then, you quite frankly don't have any idea what you're talking about and you're request for "proof" is silly at best.

Yawn. You say he can do it, but he has not. Right now it is just your belief that he has the ability to be productive on an expanded route tree.

what, exactly, are you basing this on? it's certainly not from watching the team over the last several years when he would repeatedly call tatum bell up the middle against, say, the jaguars when they had henderson and stroud. what a brilliant play caller. he sure knew how to take advantage of his personnel.

Again, proving my point. He didn't make the call. I'll trust Shanahan's ability as a possible Hall of Fame coach over your resume as a fan. If Marshall was that great at using his body he would have made the calls.

again, all you're doing here is proving that you don't have any idea what you're talking about and further, how valuable it is to actually watch a team play before opening your mouth to talk about them.



and unless you actually see how he does it, that will be just as asinine as suggesting he sucks right now.

No, because if a team throws the ball 600 times and you catch 100 balls you should get more than 6 touchdowns, no matter where the ball is being caught at.

yet again, try, you know, WATCHING a game. you might actually see some proof there.

Yet again, you holding the belief that he can do it doesn't mean he can or has done it.



he should have exactly 10 tds a season. because that somehow proves he's a red zone threat, right? i mean, what if they're all 21 yard passes and have nothing to do with the red zone? as long as he has 10 tds you're ok with it? that'll make him elite? how do you not see any of this as a stupid, illogical argument? or are you just in so deep now that you can't make yourself admit that your argument is illogical and your "evidence" (so-called) is weak?

It's just a number. 100 receptions should round out to about 10 touchdowns. A receiver with 80 receptions would be fine with less than that. TD to reception ratio.

which you know because he doesn't have 10 tds, right? or is this because he doesn't average 75 ypr?

Which you know because you believe it, right? At least my arguement has some hard evidence, yours is based on your belief (that he has multiple dimensions to his game) and nothing else. The only difference is that I believe he can't, and have stats to go along with it.

it's a "moot" point, but if you've seen norwood make a great play as an inside runner often enough, then that argument would certainly have merit. even if it wasn't supported statistically. but then, i'm sure you believe that matt ryan is mediocre at best, given his statistical rankings from last season. no doubt you'd never take actually seeing him make certain throws into account, because the stat sheet says he was just barely average.

But he is not an effective inside runner often enough, just like Marshall hasn't been an effective RZ receiver or deep receiver often enough.

As for Ryan, he had argueable top 10 statistics as a rookie, and far better numbers than the average rookie. Stats only back my opinion on him up.


your "stats are the only thing that matters" argument gets sillier and sillier with each passing post.

And all you have is 'I believe...'.
And do you rolleyes enough?
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Old 04-04-2009, 06:09 AM    (permalink
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how can someone be so in love with stats
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Old 04-04-2009, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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yeah, but if you count all the yards marshall gained running sideways, he'd have been at like, 45.5 yac.
Or backwards. lol
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Old 04-06-2009, 11:25 PM    (permalink
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I still can't believe we are still having an argument over Brandon Marshall in this thread.
And he can be a deep threat, its just that the offensive gameplan has never been centered around the deep ball. It is a west coast offense, with short routes, and a good running game. Watch the first Denver-San Diego game last year, and see how Marshall abused San Diego all game long, with different routes, INCLUDING A FADE TD.
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:05 PM    (permalink
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I think I would give it to Owens and Evans. I think Owens is a more complete receiver than Moss when it comes to run blocking. Also I think Evans can stretch the field with the best of them, maybe I'm biased cuz' he burned my team for 2 80 yd. scores in one game..... ouch. All that being said as a tandem I think this pair can hurt you in the most ways.

The homer in me wants to throw Andre Johnson in the conversation, but really that wouldn't be right. AJ's our linchpin and really anyone you plug in would have a good chance to have success. Plus with O.D. being so successful our receiving game doesn't only rely on the tandem philosophy. AJ still rocks though.

I've read alot of the Marshall argument and couldn't help but throw some logs on the fire. How much of Marshall's success was based on Cutler? Cutler and Marshall came into the league at the same time and Cutler has proven he's a good QB, how will Marshall (and Royal for that matter) do without him? Also please don't insult Cutler by comparing him to Carr, that is so....sooo unfair to Cutler. I say this cuz I saw someone comparing AJ and BM's first few seasons. Talking about an elite WR excelling regardless of who's throwing him the ball is a BS argument. If that were the case where was Mr. White of the Falcons last yr.?

Anyways, talking about Shanahan and his so called crap play calling for Marshall resulting in his low YPC. Didn't Ashley Lelie rank near the top for YPC in the same system a few yrs. ago with Plumber throwing to him? Considering that the Broncos ranked so high offensively this yr. wouldn't logic dictate that Marshall's YPC attribute to that production?

Another thing in a tandem doesn't the guy on the other side demand attention as well taking pressure off each other? AJ doesn't have that luxury and never has, imagine if he wasn't doubled or had so much coverage rolled his way, wouldn't that create space for him to create after the catch. The beauty of tandems is that they create space for YAC. So while Marshall's YAC is all well and good, I don't know if I would label it "elite"

hehehe, feeding the flames is kinda fun.
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