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View Poll Results: Best DT?
Green Bay 8 9.88%
Minnesota 61 75.31%
Chicago 11 13.58%
Detroit 1 1.23%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-05-2008, 10:23 AM    (permalink
Crazy_Chris
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Originally Posted by johbur View Post
I voted Chicago with the belief that Tommie Harris will be healthy. He is far and away the best DT in the division and probably competes with Justin Tuck for league honors. I don't care about the "run stopping" DT. I saw an 18-0 team get smacked in large part because of what an amazing interior pass rusher can do. Tuck gave it to GB all game too. Tommie Harris has DPOY potential, which I don't see in any other DT in the division.
You know it's all right for some one to think Tommie Harris is a better DT than Kevin Williams however it isn't "far and away". But anyways he competes with Justin Tuck for league honors, what??? More like he competes with Albert Haynesworth and Kevin Williams for the best DT in the league.
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Old 06-05-2008, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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haha he prolly meant best pass rushing DT
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Old 06-06-2008, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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I voted Chicago with the belief that Tommie Harris will be healthy. He is far and away the best DT in the division and probably competes with Justin Tuck for league honors. I don't care about the "run stopping" DT. I saw an 18-0 team get smacked in large part because of what an amazing interior pass rusher can do. Tuck gave it to GB all game too. Tommie Harris has DPOY potential, which I don't see in any other DT in the division.
what league honors does a backup rotational guy get? Best situational pass rusher?
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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Ummm... For Tuck, howabout league wide honors for kicking tail in the plaoffs when it counts? With Strahan retired, Tuck will be starting, maybe he moves to DE and won't even be a DT. Or maybe he stays in the middle. Did you watch the Super Bowl? There wasn't any "situational pass rushing" from him. He made Brady nervous all by himself. Giants win. Pats lose.

Tommie Harris killed when the Bears went to the Super Bowl, as well. Kevin and Pat Williams? Fine if you have absolutely no interest in rushing the passer. Harris is a potential DPOY. Williams twins are not.
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Old 06-19-2008, 01:46 AM    (permalink
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Ummm... For Tuck, howabout league wide honors for kicking tail in the plaoffs when it counts? With Strahan retired, Tuck will be starting, maybe he moves to DE and won't even be a DT. Or maybe he stays in the middle. Did you watch the Super Bowl? There wasn't any "situational pass rushing" from him. He made Brady nervous all by himself. Giants win. Pats lose.

Tommie Harris killed when the Bears went to the Super Bowl, as well. Kevin and Pat Williams? Fine if you have absolutely no interest in rushing the passer. Harris is a potential DPOY. Williams twins are not.
every now on then i read a post that is just too good to pass up, one where some guy is talking completely out of his ass. this is one of those posts. let's see here....

you do realize kevin williams has averaged 6.8 sacks per season while tommie harris has averaged 4.8? and, just for fun, since it affects the passing game, kevin williams has averaged 5.8 passes defended per season while tommie harris has averaged less then 1. should also tommie harris has never had a defensive touchdown.
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Old 06-19-2008, 01:53 AM    (permalink
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Ummm... For Tuck, howabout league wide honors for kicking tail in the plaoffs when it counts? With Strahan retired, Tuck will be starting, maybe he moves to DE and won't even be a DT. Or maybe he stays in the middle. Did you watch the Super Bowl? There wasn't any "situational pass rushing" from him. He made Brady nervous all by himself. Giants win. Pats lose.

Tommie Harris killed when the Bears went to the Super Bowl, as well. Kevin and Pat Williams? Fine if you have absolutely no interest in rushing the passer. Harris is a potential DPOY. Williams twins are not.
Kevin Williams can definatly rush the passer, maybe not as well as Tommie Harris. But now that he has Allen to take some double teams off him expect 6-8 sacks from him along with the usual dominance against the run.
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Old 06-19-2008, 01:56 AM    (permalink
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If harris is back and 100% I'm picking the bears, atm I'm going with the vikings.
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Old 06-19-2008, 01:57 AM    (permalink
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Ummm... For Tuck, howabout league wide honors for kicking tail in the plaoffs when it counts? With Strahan retired, Tuck will be starting, maybe he moves to DE and won't even be a DT. Or maybe he stays in the middle. Did you watch the Super Bowl? There wasn't any "situational pass rushing" from him. He made Brady nervous all by himself. Giants win. Pats lose.

Tommie Harris killed when the Bears went to the Super Bowl, as well. Kevin and Pat Williams? Fine if you have absolutely no interest in rushing the passer. Harris is a potential DPOY. Williams twins are not.
As a giants fan I can tell you Tuck is going to be starting at DE and playing DT on rushing downs as situational rushing DT, just like last year.
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Old 06-20-2008, 03:10 AM    (permalink
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every now on then i read a post that is just too good to pass up, one where some guy is talking completely out of his ass. this is one of those posts. let's see here....

you do realize kevin williams has averaged 6.8 sacks per season while tommie harris has averaged 4.8? and, just for fun, since it affects the passing game, kevin williams has averaged 5.8 passes defended per season while tommie harris has averaged less then 1. should also tommie harris has never had a defensive touchdown.
And do you realize that Kevin Williams has averaged 4 sacks per year over the past three years? He had three sacks last year. That does not skirr me. If you want to take a time-travel detour back to 2003 and 2004, Kevin Williams was great then. He's not great anymore. He did get two interceptions with the TDs, kudos to him.

Now, Tommie Harris has only gotten better, and he is getting better playing fewer games than Kevin Williams. The last three years he's averaged over 5 sacks a game. And he's not even healthy. He was instrumental in getting the Bears to the SB. He also gave GB's offensive line a lot more trouble than Williams did. Bears won those two games, partly because of the interior pressure. Packers won the two games against the Vikings last year, partly because there was no interior pressure.

You can take the declining Kevin Williams, I'll take the ascending Tommie Harris.
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Old 06-20-2008, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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And do you realize that Kevin Williams has averaged 4 sacks per year over the past three years? He had three sacks last year. That does not skirr me. If you want to take a time-travel detour back to 2003 and 2004, Kevin Williams was great then. He's not great anymore. He did get two interceptions with the TDs, kudos to him.

Now, Tommie Harris has only gotten better, and he is getting better playing fewer games than Kevin Williams. The last three years he's averaged over 5 sacks a game. And he's not even healthy. He was instrumental in getting the Bears to the SB. He also gave GB's offensive line a lot more trouble than Williams did. Bears won those two games, partly because of the interior pressure. Packers won the two games against the Vikings last year, partly because there was no interior pressure.

You can take the declining Kevin Williams, I'll take the ascending Tommie Harris.
these are the accumulated stats for the past four seasons, ever since harris came into the league. this doesn't include kevin williams rookie year in which he played defensive end for all but four games

--------------- G Takl Sack PDef Int FF FR TD
K Williams ----- 60 186 23.5 26 - 3 - 3 - 8 - 4
Tommie Harris - 60 139 19.5 03 - 0 - 5 - 3 - 0

now as far as predicting what kind of numbers they'll put up next season, tommie harris has improved the last two seasons, but williams is now surrounded by talent that is just good as the talent that has surrrounded harris his entire career.
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Old 06-26-2008, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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It is my opinion that Tommie Harris is a better DT than Kevin Williams. If you want to go back to TH's rookie year, more power to you. For this upcoming year, it is my belief that TH will continue to ascend and KW might get a little better with Allen on the line, but I don't see him getting all that better. It is my opinion that he is descending. IMO, that's why the Bears tossed TH 40 million bones. It's not just the talent around him, it's that one is getting better, and one is declining. Now, the other part is my observations of Harris against the Packers O-line and Williams against the Packers O-line, which was in flux throughout the year without anything close to a pro-bowler at OG. GB beat the Vikings twice, and the game in which KW showed anything, the Vikings lost 34-0. Harris pressured Favre on the first Bears game into an interception to Urlacher that helped the Bears win that game and the attention that Harris received in the second game allowed the rest of the line to go into an attack mode.

Renji: Thanks for the neg rep. I wasn't sure I was in the right on this, but whatever side you're on, the wisest course is to be on the other side. Back to ignore for you.
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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And do you realize that Kevin Williams has averaged 4 sacks per year over the past three years? He had three sacks last year. That does not skirr me. If you want to take a time-travel detour back to 2003 and 2004, Kevin Williams was great then. He's not great anymore. He did get two interceptions with the TDs, kudos to him.

Now, Tommie Harris has only gotten better, and he is getting better playing fewer games than Kevin Williams. The last three years he's averaged over 5 sacks a game. And he's not even healthy. He was instrumental in getting the Bears to the SB. He also gave GB's offensive line a lot more trouble than Williams did. Bears won those two games, partly because of the interior pressure. Packers won the two games against the Vikings last year, partly because there was no interior pressure.

You can take the declining Kevin Williams, I'll take the ascending Tommie Harris.
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It is my opinion that Tommie Harris is a better DT than Kevin Williams. If you want to go back to TH's rookie year, more power to you. For this upcoming year, it is my belief that TH will continue to ascend and KW might get a little better with Allen on the line, but I don't see him getting all that better. It is my opinion that he is descending. IMO, that's why the Bears tossed TH 40 million bones. It's not just the talent around him, it's that one is getting better, and one is declining. Now, the other part is my observations of Harris against the Packers O-line and Williams against the Packers O-line, which was in flux throughout the year without anything close to a pro-bowler at OG. GB beat the Vikings twice, and the game in which KW showed anything, the Vikings lost 34-0. Harris pressured Favre on the first Bears game into an interception to Urlacher that helped the Bears win that game and the attention that Harris received in the second game allowed the rest of the line to go into an attack mode.

Renji: Thanks for the neg rep. I wasn't sure I was in the right on this, but whatever side you're on, the wisest course is to be on the other side. Back to ignore for you.
Damn, I sure wish you were the packers offensive coordinator since Kevin Williams doesn't "skirr" you. Unfortunatly real offensive coordinators wouldn't be foolish enough to not be "skirred" of him.

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Old 04-13-2009, 01:27 AM    (permalink
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The best DT in the Division is Tommie Harris...followed By both Williams.

However, i take the question as if I were starting a franchise right now from scratch, which DT's would I want...and i'd have to go with the Bears DT's.

Tommie Harris is amazing when healthy, and he's only 25.
Kevin Williams is on par with him and also pretty young (27ish?)

But the difference is the #2 guy...Pat Williams is OOOLLLLLD and should be done soon.

On the other hand the Bears have a young stud in the making in Marcus Harrison...he dominated in flashes last year and is going to have a break out season this year.
The Bears also have depth, with Dusty Dvoracek, Anthony Adams and even the extremely versatile and gifted Israel Idonije.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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The best DT in the Division is Tommie Harris...followed By both Williams.

However, i take the question as if I were starting a franchise right now from scratch, which DT's would I want...and i'd have to go with the Bears DT's.

Tommie Harris is amazing when healthy, and he's only 25.
Kevin Williams is on par with him and also pretty young (27ish?)

But the difference is the #2 guy...Pat Williams is OOOLLLLLD and should be done soon.

On the other hand the Bears have a young stud in the making in Marcus Harrison...he dominated in flashes last year and is going to have a break out season this year.
The Bears also have depth, with Dusty Dvoracek, Anthony Adams and even the extremely versatile and gifted Israel Idonije.
Just more ridiculous homerism...

You realize the Bears were terrible against the run last season and Harris was as inconsistent as ever?

Vikings have the best DT duo in the league, let alone the division.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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Just more ridiculous homerism...

You realize the Bears were terrible against the run last season and Harris was as inconsistent as ever?

Vikings have the best DT duo in the league, let alone the division.
Thats wrong, Bears were top 5 against the run.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statis...=2008&season=2
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Thats wrong, Bears were top 5 against the run.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statis...=2008&season=2
Whoops, meant the pass. My mistake, good catch.

Still, arguing Chicago DTs over Minnesota is just mind boggling.
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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Whoops, meant the pass. My mistake, good catch.

Still, arguing Chicago DTs over Minnesota is just mind boggling.
Bears pass rush is what sucked leading to terrible pass defense plus their secondary has some holes and Vasher can't stay healthy/probably will neve be the same.

Ogunleye 5 sacks, Alex Brown 6 sacks and Harris 5 sacks was decent but somebody needs to be a double digit sack guy, and also was not consistent. Plus Mark Andeson blew as a situational rusher with only 1 sack.

Detroit had 2 more sacks than Chicago with way less talent.

Harris is just as good as Kevin Williams when healthy. Problem is health and Harris nose tackle hasn't been the greatest. However, last year things picked up there and the Bears rush D was good. Having Urlacher and Briggs obviously helps that too.
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