Philosophy thread - Page 29

someone447 · 05-22-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang

thats idiotic though, i mean if you know you are wrong why continue on being wrong

There is a very simple explanation for that. Most people are too scared or lazy to confront what is really happening in their minds. Speaking from personal experience, nothing has been more frightening than really delving into my psyche and trying to figure out why I believe things I believe. It is much easier to just accept what you believe and not question it.

CJSchneider · 05-22-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone447

There is a very simple explanation for that. Most people are too scared or lazy to confront what is really happening in their minds. Speaking from personal experience, nothing has been more frightening than really delving into my psyche and trying to figure out why I believe things I believe. It is much easier to just accept what you believe and not question it.

Bingo. I'll even say most people are too scared or too lazy to change their behaviors. Once people settle into a comfort zone regarding any stream of thought, action, or attitude the mind will find ways to justify what it does or thinks. Humans are not perfect.

The Unseen · 05-22-2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone447

There is a very simple explanation for that. Most people are too scared or lazy to confront what is really happening in their minds. Speaking from personal experience, nothing has been more frightening than really delving into my psyche and trying to figure out why I believe things I believe. It is much easier to just accept what you believe and not question it.

I'm the same way. When I really think about what I believe is right, the complications and the logical implications freak my brain out. Then I begin to sympathize with those who merely go with the flow and don't really think through the big philosophical/political questions. I almost envy them.

Gay Ork Wang · 05-22-2009, 11:47 AM

i mean i get that, thats why i understand why people hang on to wrong believes. but if you understand something is wrong or hypocrite, you obviously started to think about it. why not finish that?

CJSchneider · 05-22-2009, 11:52 AM

Because people are too lazy to carry out a decision.

someone447 · 05-22-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang

i mean i get that, thats why i understand why people hang on to wrong believes. but if you understand something is wrong or hypocrite, you obviously started to think about it. why not finish that?

Because once you go down that path, there is no going back. It's going down the proverbial rabbit hole. It is much easier to just dismiss your hypocritical thoughts than it is to actually truly examine them.

I'm not like that, but it sure is tough to really buckle down and examine my beliefs sometimes.

Gay Ork Wang · 05-22-2009, 11:55 AM

meh, thats just weak

TitleTown088 · 05-22-2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang

I mean i understand when people believe something that is wrong or wants to believe something that is wrong.

But how can someone believe something that he knows is wrong? how can you lie to yourself?

What do you mean? What is something that people believe in that is " wrong"? "Wrong" is very subjective. After all, who are you to indicate what is right for someone else?

Gay Ork Wang · 05-22-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitleTown088

What do you mean? What is something that people believe in that is " wrong"? "Wrong" is very subjective. After all, who are you to indicate what is right for someone else?

well there are certain right or wrongs in this world. there are some people who try to shut their eyes before those things or form their beliefs based on false facts or misinterpret the facts wrong. thats basically what i mean

TitleTown088 · 05-22-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *** Ork Wang

well there are certain right or wrongs in this world. there are some people who try to shut their eyes before those things or form their beliefs based on false facts or misinterpret the facts wrong. thats basically what i mean

What facts are you referring to, and which people ignore them?

someone447 · 05-22-2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitleTown088

What facts are you referring to, and which people ignore them?

Evolution-Fundies
everything-Political talking heads and the people who accept what they say without question

Although I don't think that is what he meant. At least that isn't what he has been saying in his previous posts.

awfullyquiet · 05-22-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitleTown088

What do you mean? What is something that people believe in that is " wrong"? "Wrong" is very subjective. After all, who are you to indicate what is right for someone else?

If it's 'wrong' for you, but you continue to believe its wrong, and you do it anyway...

Hypocritism is definitely weird. I mean, it's like the preacher caught in an affair.

They condemn it, it's 'wrong', but they do it anyway, they're lying to themselves that they believe its wrong... well, not that they believe it's wrong, but either that their situation doesn't apply to what they believe, even if it clearly does... it's a delusion more than a lie.

Gay Ork Wang · 05-22-2009, 01:23 PM

i think i kinda misdescribed what i meant but what AQ said is basically what im talking about

The Unseen · 05-22-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

If it's 'wrong' for you, but you continue to believe its wrong, and you do it anyway...

Right. People have different moral systems and thus different calculations of right and wrong. Renji may be referring to empirically observable truths when he said "right and wrong." I also believe that there are empirically observable truths that are true no matter the perspective. But if we're talking about moral and ethical codes, that's based upon a person's wills and desires, which differ from person to person.

Brent · 05-22-2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awfullyquiet

If it's 'wrong' for you, but you continue to believe its wrong, and you do it anyway...

People like to think that their situation is different somehow, and then they justify it with some ****** up logic to convince them that what they are doing is acceptable.

TitleTown088 · 05-22-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awfullyquiet

If it's 'wrong' for you, but you continue to believe its wrong, and you do it anyway...

Hypocritism is definitely weird. I mean, it's like the preacher caught in an affair.

They condemn it, it's 'wrong', but they do it anyway, they're lying to themselves that they believe its wrong... well, not that they believe it's wrong, but either that their situation doesn't apply to what they believe, even if it clearly does... it's a delusion more than a lie.

That all goes without saying.

Paranoidmoonduck · 05-22-2009, 04:38 PM

Right and wrong can be really difficult to get a mutual handle on. Which is funny, because I think that the real measure of what's "good" and "bad" can probably be most practically asserted by the largest number of people at a certain time. Sure, it's a highly relative way to look at it, but nothing about the idea of there being these fixed and immovable truths that we strive to ascertain seems to totally right for me (if most Religious arguments die the death of a million qualifications, the idea of objective and fixed truth dies the death of a million implications).

I don't get the hypocrisy argument either. I mostly agree with the Kierkegaardian idea that it is more important how someone lives their convictions than exactly what those conviction are (so long, of course, as one recognizes logic as a separate apparatus to conviction and uses it as such). And convictions can do a lot of good and I think that if most people followed theirs more we'd be in better shape as a species. That said, the implication of studying philosophy is unfailingly staring at the implicit and fundamental contradictions of all human beings. We all do things for the sake of survival that we haven't earned logically for the sake of necessity.

awfullyquiet · 05-22-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitleTown088

That all goes without saying.

but i said it anyway.

i appreciate people who are stronger in their convictions... but at the same time, know why the celebrate their convictions. i hate the trendy vegans or the green party followers who think it's cool to be passionate, but have no real depth to their conviction. i think it's much less a sin to have a few well supported convictions and wishy washy on the rest than have a barricade of self proclaimed convictions.