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Old 08-12-2009, 05:11 PM    (permalink
herniateddisc
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Yeah thats three HOF's for sure. Aikman anyone? Emmitt? D-Ware? Yeah I know in your world Jimmy and Parcells drafted every good player we have ever had, and Jerry only drafted the scrubs. Sorry it doesnt work that way....except in your (Im the best GM ever) world.
I can make the same argument for Al Davis.
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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I can make the same argument for Al Davis.
Using that same logic, have you ever tried to buy something from a store using grass? Because, grass and cash have the same color you know...
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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Ewe... Elam and Urban suck. Glad we have Sensabaugh now instead. If Urban made the team then Hurd or Austin wouldn't have. I like those options better.

Bob special: Keep Abram Elam and Jereme Urban!!! LOL.
I think you're off the mark if you would rather have a FA 1 year signee over a guy we drafted and could have brought up in house, whose talent levels are pretty close. If you disagree about their talent level, I'd like to hear a convincing argument.
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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I can't wait to see how Butler and Williams look tomorrow. I'm browsing around, and seeing some really good things said about them. Butler more so than Williams. I'm hearing that Butler is looking very good in camp.
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Using that same logic, have you ever tried to buy something from a store using grass? Because, grass and cash have the same color you know...
I need a map with instructions for this post.

Al Davis actually did find and draft HOF Players. Jerry is it debatable.

Regardless Al is horrid right now and Jerry is not far behind.
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Hopefully Williams can play. He hurt his shoulder, nothing serious. Categorized as "sore" but, it may keep him out. I'm real excited to see both as well. Williams has had a fantastic camp as well. Butler has been the more consistent, though. But our coaches really like both guys.
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Ewe... Elam and Urban suck. Glad we have Sensabaugh now instead. If Urban made the team then Hurd or Austin wouldn't have. I like those options better.

Bob special: Keep Abram Elam and Jereme Urban!!! LOL.
I guess Arizona's WR core sucks so bad they actually kept Urban as the 4th WR. ROTFLMAO! And Elam, yeah he sucks too. That $1.5MM contract means NOTHING!

Not sure what the rest had to do with Jerry getting rid of young guys simply becuase he can't project.
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Old 08-12-2009, 06:45 PM    (permalink
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Urban had no shot to make the team. As was said, that would have meant that Austin, Hurd, or a rookie Stanback would be off the roster.

Urban was also the oldest of the bunch...his chances were slim at best, though. We already had 6 receivers.

I would have liked to hold onto Elam. I dont remember the specifics. I think he initially made the roster but, we cut him when we picked up Ogelsby.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:04 PM    (permalink
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I need a map with instructions for this post.

Al Davis actually did find and draft HOF Players. Jerry is it debatable.

Regardless Al is horrid right now and Jerry is not far behind.
Just LAST YEAR we drafted Felix Jones, Mike Jenkins, Martellus Bennett, Tashard Choice, and Orlando Scandrick. Yeah thats horrid.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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Thinking back to the Urban days, brings back memories. In 2006 Hurd was awfully impressive and everyone figured he was making it but, Miles Austin had a pretty bad camp, in his rookie year. Most people had us keeping Copper instead. I remember how surprised a lot of us were to see us hold onto Miles. haha.

Also...who remembers Pepper Johnson? :) There is a name for you. Oh, and Justin Beriault. <3
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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I need a map with instructions for this post.

Al Davis actually did find and draft HOF Players. Jerry is it debatable.

Regardless Al is horrid right now and Jerry is not far behind.
Since Jerry drafted Troy and the Cowboys won 3 SBs with Troy, can I said Jerry is 3 times better Al or 10 times better any team never win a SB. To be fair, Jerry is a little better average GM.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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I think you're off the mark if you would rather have a FA 1 year signee over a guy we drafted and could have brought up in house, whose talent levels are pretty close. If you disagree about their talent level, I'd like to hear a convincing argument.
Well both Sensabaugh and Elam are 1 year FA signees... so I was a little thrown off until I reread your post a couple times... Although Elam is now with the Browns, the Jets matched his offer for $1.5M.

But um, first off we didn't even draft Elam. He was an UDFA coming to us in '06. Sensabaugh was the Jags 5th round pick in '05. So one had enough talent to be drafted and the other didn't. But yet... talent level is a pretty difficult thing to put on paper to build a good argument for you.

I'll try though.

Sensabaugh started 13 games in 2008 and had 70 tackles, four interceptions and eight passes defensed, all career highs.

Abram started 16 games in 2008 and had 69 tackles, one interception and 3 passes defensed, all career highs.

I like Sensabaugh's stats a lot more, but I still don't know if that's convincing enough for you.

Sensabaugh signed a $1.75M deal with us while Elam got $1.5M. So if money is a factor, they are in the same class.

Sensabaugh has been drawing great reviews this spring. Picked off Romo yesterday btw. Overall, I just feel positive about this signing. I don't really judge a player by the length of his contract. Since the Roy Williams mistake, Jerry has done pretty well managing contracts and such. The 1 year deal for Sensy is like a trial period. We did the same thing with Ken Hamlin and he capitalized. So I think Jerry is doing the same. If it doesn't work out, then it doesn't hurt our pocket nor does it give us false hopes in a player who would prevent us from possibly drafting a player high at that position in the next draft. Like if Sensy got a 3 year deal for $5-6M or so, that might disuade us from picking a S in round 1. Meanwhile, we'd be stuck w/a player who's not really that good for us. The 1 year deal works out great.... but I don't think that tells us enough about him to say he's great or just mediocre.

If I'm wrong about Sensabaugh and Elam is really clearly the way better player, then I'm with Jerry. I didn't see it coming. As of right now, I have pretty good reason to have optimism and don't really have a case to complain about losing Elam. Pretty much the basis for my point to Bob.

If complaining about letting Elam go is our biggest bust, then we can really feel good about ourselves for not consistently letting talented players go. I mean, we're not talking about Terence Newman, Marion Barber, Tony Romo, Jason Witten, Marc Columbo, Andre Gurode, Jay Ratliff, Patrick Crayton, Miles Austin, Sam Hurd... guys we have decided to keep around by renewing contracts the past few years.

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Old 08-12-2009, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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You want to talk about players we let go, how about Scott Shanle. He's carved out a nice little niche over there in NO. Who'd a thunk it.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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I guess Arizona's WR core sucks so bad they actually kept Urban as the 4th WR. ROTFLMAO! And Elam, yeah he sucks too. That $1.5MM contract means NOTHING!

Not sure what the rest had to do with Jerry getting rid of young guys simply becuase he can't project.
Urban is actually making some noise this offseason, but are you high? He made it as their 4th WR? Oh wow! Maybe I'm missing the joke... Or getting the joke? Is making it as their 4th WR supposed to make me feel pissed that we lost him? Geez louise..... You're not really selling me here that Jerry consistently let's go of his homegrown talent.

Elam and Urban... that's the best you got??? Whoooppeee if that's so.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Urban had no shot to make the team. As was said, that would have meant that Austin, Hurd, or a rookie Stanback would be off the roster.
And, yes, your point is what? Urban is much better than Stanback ever was or will be let alone Hurd and Crayton are clones.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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I'm wrong, we didn't draft Elam. You're right on that point. But all I was saying that it made no sense to prefer an OUTSIDE guy like Sensabaugh over a guy we signed straight out of college who has SIMILAR abilities. I'd probably agree that Sensabaugh is the better (or at least more talented) player at this point. But not by much at all, and if I weigh that vs Abram Elam's comfort with the scheme and fit on this team had he been kept the entire time, I'd take that Elam any day over Sensabaugh. I don't feel like that's an outlandish statement.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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You want to talk about players we let go, how about Scott Shanle. He's carved out a nice little niche over there in NO. Who'd a thunk it.
Yeah but do you really think he's a starter on this team? Even at ILB if we hadn't signed Brooking, I'm not sure Shanle is a huge upgrade over Carp or Williams or ... Ayodele? I mean good for him finding a place to start (ditto to Fujita) but those guys are starters there because they couldn't be here.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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And, yes, your point is what? Urban is much better than Stanback ever was or will be let alone Hurd and Crayton are clones.
What the heck is your point then? Crying over a guy that wasnt going to be kept anyway. Hurd earned his spot and Stanback was just a rookie. Drafted with the intent to groom him.

Urban is the 4th WR in a wide open pass offense...he isnt even on Crayton or Hurd's talent level.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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Elam and Urban... that's the best you got??? Whoooppeee if that's so.
If that was it. JJ GM sucks.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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What the heck is your point then? Crying over a guy that wasnt going to be kept anyway.
Never wanted Stanback and never would have resigned Crayton with Hurd around.

Right there we save a draft pick and save money.

Keep putting one decision on top of another, on top of another and it adds up.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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Thinking back to the Urban days, brings back memories. In 2006 Hurd was awfully impressive and everyone figured he was making it but, Miles Austin had a pretty bad camp, in his rookie year. Most people had us keeping Copper instead. I remember how surprised a lot of us were to see us hold onto Miles. haha.

Also...who remembers Pepper Johnson? :) There is a name for you. Oh, and Justin Beriault. <3
Oh Beriault! What could have been... He gave a lot of us high hopes.

I remember Pepper Johnson... Bill Oh Bill... He brought us some real studs from his past coaching stops... Dan Campbell, Richie Anderson, Ryan Young... and who can forget... Vinny Testaverde!!! Woo hoo! He had me going at first on Jason Ferguson... until the guy turned out to be a flop.

Bledsoe and Keyshawn were funny while they lasted.

The only guy I really liked from his old regimes was Terry Glenn. ...and I always wanted him to bring us Ty Law (while he was still serviceable), but he never did!
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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If that was it. JJ GM sucks.
Let it go. You're reaching. ...and your opinion on the matter lacks substance.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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Well both Sensabaugh and Elam are 1 year FA signees... so I was a little thrown off until I reread your post a couple times... Although Elam is now with the Browns, the Jets matched his offer for $1.5M.

But um, first off we didn't even draft Elam. He was an UDFA coming to us in '06. Sensabaugh was the Jags 5th round pick in '05. So one had enough talent to be drafted and the other didn't. But yet... talent level is a pretty difficult thing to put on paper to build a good argument for you.

I'll try though.

Sensabaugh started 13 games in 2008 and had 70 tackles, four interceptions and eight passes defensed, all career highs.

Abram started 16 games in 2008 and had 69 tackles, one interception and 3 passes defensed, all career highs.

I like Sensabaugh's stats a lot more, but I still don't know if that's convincing enough for you.

Sensabaugh signed a $1.75M deal with us while Elam got $1.5M. So if money is a factor, they are in the same class.

Sensabaugh has been drawing great reviews this spring. Picked off Romo yesterday btw. Overall, I just feel positive about this signing. I don't really judge a player by the length of his contract. Since the Roy Williams mistake, Jerry has done pretty well managing contracts and such. The 1 year deal for Sensy is like a trial period. We did the same thing with Ken Hamlin and he capitalized. So I think Jerry is doing the same. If it doesn't work out, then it doesn't hurt our pocket nor does it give us false hopes in a player who would prevent us from possibly drafting a player high at that position in the next draft. Like if Sensy got a 3 year deal for $5-6M or so, that might disuade us from picking a S in round 1. Meanwhile, we'd be stuck w/a player who's not really that good for us. The 1 year deal works out great.... but I don't think that tells us enough about him to say he's great or just mediocre.

If I'm wrong about Sensabaugh and Elam is really clearly the way better player, then I'm with Jerry. I didn't see it coming. As of right now, I have pretty good reason to have optimism and don't really have a case to complain about losing Elam. Pretty much the basis for my point to Bob.

If complaining about letting Elam go is our biggest bust, then we can really feel good about ourselves for not consistently letting talented players go. I mean, we're not talking about Terence Newman, Marion Barber, Tony Romo, Jason Witten, Marc Columbo, Andre Gurode, Jay Ratliff, Patrick Crayton, Miles Austin, Sam Hurd... guys we have decided to keep around by renewing contracts the past few years.
Get a grip, no one is comparing Elam versus Sensabuagh. Only you are.

It was never a choice between the two so what is your rant about?

Moore, Elam, Urban, Peterman, Fowler are all examples of young players pretty much run out of town b/c the GM could not project development.

Signing guys like Hamlin, Sensabuagh, TO, Davis, etc is about picking up known quantities at a price.

JJ GM is just not very good trading off more expensive Vets for less experienced and cheaper young guys.

Pittsburgh and Indy and NE do it just that way most of the time. Cut the Vets and keep the youth. They also don't out and draft 2 guys for a roster allegedly filled with Pro-Bowlers in their 20s.

Last edited by herniateddisc : 08-12-2009 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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Never wanted Stanback and never would have resigned Crayton with Hurd around.

Right there we save a draft pick and save money.

Keep putting one decision on top of another, on top of another and it adds up.
Name a GM in the league that hasn't missed on a 4th round draft pick. Don't you dare say Bill Parcells. Cause Skyler Green and Bruce Thornton say Hi.
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Old 08-12-2009, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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Let it go. You're reaching. ...and your opinion on the matter lacks substance.
That is the biggest joke I have heard in years.

Really, if anyone needs to let it go its you. Your opinion is completely running against facts.

And fact is, only time players were ever developed in Dallas was under Jimmy and Bill. Under Jones and his sock puppet coaches I can only remember one, Larry Allen, in 19 years.
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