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Old 08-27-2009, 01:05 PM    (permalink
eaglesalltheway
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eaglesalltheway, you're basically 100% correct about Desean. The only thing that was a fluke about last year was that he only got into the endzone like 3 times. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets 2td's in game 1. Easily good for 10 td's next year. You simply cannot play him man-on-man. I don't think McNabb really realized how good or fast Desean was last year. Even at the end of the year, in the NFC championship game when Desean beat Cromartie, McNabb underthrew the ball. Fortunately, Desean bailed him out by coming up with the nice catch. Don't get me wrong, McNabb made a great read, but just a bit underthrown. Regarding going over the middle, obviously, anyone who actually watched the Eagles last year knows he's can run all of the routes and can effectively go over the middle. That's not even a topic up for debate, at least not a serious debate. What I don't think most realize is that Desean is MUCH smarter than people realize. After securing the ball, he's excellent at preparing for the hit. I'd bet an awful of money that's something he has practiced quite a bit (amonst many things I believe he has practiced). That's just one example of the many small things that Desean is very, very good at. As an Eagles fan, you probably know what I'm talking about. The idea that he's a naturally gifted athlete (or just relying on speed) is non-sense. Nobody, especially at his size, gets that good at all of those little things without lots and lots of practice.
There are some things here that I agree with, and about him knowing how to take a hit is one of them. For the most part, he is able to absorb hits well or plain avoid them, much like Marvin Harrison has done throughout his career. He could improve in some areas there, as he will get lit up every once in a while, but it is something he will get with age. It is also obvious his work ethic is very good, and I don't think he gets the credit he deserves easier. He needed to work on route running during the draft process, so he worked with Jerry Rice and now route running is a strength of his. He had problems beating the jam at times last season, he has greatly improved that. He finds his weaknesses and works on them, that is one of the many things I like about DeSean.
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Old 08-27-2009, 02:27 PM    (permalink
mellojello
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There are some things here that I agree with, and about him knowing how to take a hit is one of them. For the most part, he is able to absorb hits well or plain avoid them, much like Marvin Harrison has done throughout his career. He could improve in some areas there, as he will get lit up every once in a while, but it is something he will get with age. It is also obvious his work ethic is very good, and I don't think he gets the credit he deserves easier. He needed to work on route running during the draft process, so he worked with Jerry Rice and now route running is a strength of his. He had problems beating the jam at times last season, he has greatly improved that. He finds his weaknesses and works on them, that is one of the many things I like about DeSean.
I'm not there at the practices, so honestly, I'm more interested on what you don't agree with. Let me know your thoughts. Just one comment about the Jerry Rice comment: Desean worked with Jerry Rice for three weeks and at Desean's Pro Day workout, Jerry mentioned that Desean was an excellent route runner, an opinion of him I held prior to him ever getting together with Rice. While I don't think it hurt Desean working with Rice, Rice deserves little credit for Desean being the route runner he is. I've stated for well before the draft that he was easily the best/most polished WR in his class.
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Old 08-30-2009, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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I'm not there at the practices, so honestly, I'm more interested on what you don't agree with. Let me know your thoughts. Just one comment about the Jerry Rice comment: Desean worked with Jerry Rice for three weeks and at Desean's Pro Day workout, Jerry mentioned that Desean was an excellent route runner, an opinion of him I held prior to him ever getting together with Rice. While I don't think it hurt Desean working with Rice, Rice deserves little credit for Desean being the route runner he is. I've stated for well before the draft that he was easily the best/most polished WR in his class.
Agreed for sure, he needed some improvement in his route running coming in, but it wasn't a weakness, but Rice certainly helped him in that area a lot. What I was disagreeing with was the confidence in 2 TDs week one (it can happen, I'm not as confident in that as you seem though) and 10+ TDs on the year. That may be tough for him due to his less than ideal height in the red zone, and due to the fact that we have so many weapons to turn to that can score for us.
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Old 08-30-2009, 06:07 PM    (permalink
mellojello
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Agreed for sure, he needed some improvement in his route running coming in, but it wasn't a weakness, but Rice certainly helped him in that area a lot. What I was disagreeing with was the confidence in 2 TDs week one (it can happen, I'm not as confident in that as you seem though) and 10+ TDs on the year. That may be tough for him due to his less than ideal height in the red zone, and due to the fact that we have so many weapons to turn to that can score for us.
Ok, at least we're having a sensible conversation. Some of the misinformation you were responding to was like they weren't even talking about Desean or had really never seen him play. Obviously, I wouldn't bet the farm that he scores 2td's in game one, but I was trying to make the point that Desean really is that good and that I would not at all be shocked if it happened. Donavan is a great QB and he's going to take what the defense gives him and you're right, there are a lot of options on the Eagles. Unless he gets injured, I'll stand by my prediction that he gets into the endzone 10+ times this year, despite recognizing that he's not the ideal tall, WR red-zone target. Desean was just warming up last year...:) Good luck to your team this year.
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:47 AM    (permalink
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^^
Wow, I like DeSean but wow... IDK about all of that.
I'm confident time will prove me right, but since I'm a dipshit, so there's no way I could know what I'm talking about...
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:10 AM    (permalink
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I'm confident time will prove me right, but since I'm a dipshit, so there's no way I could know what I'm talking about...
Why have I never responded with anything like this? It fits me perfectly and I can have a sense of humor like this...
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Old 08-31-2009, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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Why have I never responded with anything like this? It fits me perfectly and I can have a sense of humor like this...
Dude, you have wayyyyyyyy more patience for misinformation than I do. Desean Jackson is a one trick pony like Steve Smith or Santana Moss is a one trick pony.
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Old 08-31-2009, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Its prolly because I'm jsut relaxed about almost anything that happens, internet or elsewhere, but there are times where I just have enough, and I don't really get upset unless it is a special case or there are "personal attacks" involved, but I'm just a chill kind of person, so for the most part, It doesn't bother me.
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Old 08-31-2009, 08:25 PM    (permalink
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mellojello, you push things to the brink, you're opinions aren't wrong but you're something of an internet extremist. But from what I can grasp from you, you're a Cal fan and it shows. You've homered DeSean Jackson out to the point where even I can't support you, and I'm an Eagles homer. To say that he is easily good for 10 touchdowns is ridiculous, I can't get behind that. 10 all purpose touchdowns would even be a huge stretch. I like the guy and I truly think he is the best receiver the Eagles have had in a long while but I don't know if he will ever top 10 receiving touchdowns in a season to be completely honest.

And you act as if he is perfect, DeSean is not perfect, not even close. Maybe you're still stuck watching Cal film, but this is the NFL. DeSean can be jammed at the line, he can be rattled, he is inconsistent and he has questionable hands. Just watch the Eagles games, he is still extremely exciting, but he caught only 55% of passes thrown in his direction, he was rattled by Carlos Rogers and Laron Landry big time. He dropped game winning touchdowns against the Redskins and he was absolutely jaw dropping one week and invisible the next. These things will become better as he grows as a player, but remember, we are still talking about a young player who still has a lot of room to improve.

I REALLY like DeSean and I truly think he will be the next Steve Smith/Santana Moss but I don't think he is there yet. DeSean is truly on another level, when he runs everyone else looks like they're in slow motion and he can juke any player in the game with ease. He is IMO one of the best young receivers in the game and he is better than Royal, Avery and the Dolphin's receiver and will be far and away the best receiver from the 2008 draft. I think he is already better than most speedy receivers like Ted Ginn Jr. and Devin Hester along with a few others that I missed. He is a future star and I am hoping for 75 receptions, 1000 yards and 6 touchdowns this year as a realistic goal for him. But please be realistic about it, he is not the best ever like you seem to think, he can be jammed, he can be played in man to man and he is not easily good for 10 touchdowns.

Plus, lets not jinx it just look at Michael Clayton.

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Old 08-31-2009, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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On another Note I got Desean on my Fantasy Team along with the rest of the eagles!!! WOOOOO Homerism in fantasy never backfires.
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Old 08-31-2009, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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On another Note I got Desean on my Fantasy Team along with the rest of the eagles!!! WOOOOO Homerism in fantasy never backfires.
Man, I tried to get him but I waited too long and was forced to choose Chad Ochocinco instead. Man, life sucks...
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Old 08-31-2009, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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I was able to grab him in the 6th Chad JOHNSON went in the 4th in what was the weirdest draft Ive ever been in: Brady Brees and Peterson 1 2 and 3 respectively
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Old 09-01-2009, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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mellojello, you push things to the brink, you're opinions aren't wrong but you're something of an internet extremist. But from what I can grasp from you, you're a Cal fan and it shows. You've homered DeSean Jackson out to the point where even I can't support you, and I'm an Eagles homer. To say that he is easily good for 10 touchdowns is ridiculous, I can't get behind that. 10 all purpose touchdowns would even be a huge stretch. I like the guy and I truly think he is the best receiver the Eagles have had in a long while but I don't know if he will ever top 10 receiving touchdowns in a season to be completely honest.

And you act as if he is perfect, DeSean is not perfect, not even close. Maybe you're still stuck watching Cal film, but this is the NFL. DeSean can be jammed at the line, he can be rattled, he is inconsistent and he has questionable hands. Just watch the Eagles games, he is still extremely exciting, but he caught only 55% of passes thrown in his direction, he was rattled by Carlos Rogers and Laron Landry big time. He dropped game winning touchdowns against the Redskins and he was absolutely jaw dropping one week and invisible the next. These things will become better as he grows as a player, but remember, we are still talking about a young player who still has a lot of room to improve.

I REALLY like DeSean and I truly think he will be the next Steve Smith/Santana Moss but I don't think he is there yet. DeSean is truly on another level, when he runs everyone else looks like they're in slow motion and he can juke any player in the game with ease. He is IMO one of the best young receivers in the game and he is better than Royal, Avery and the Dolphin's receiver and will be far and away the best receiver from the 2008 draft. I think he is already better than most speedy receivers like Ted Ginn Jr. and Devin Hester along with a few others that I missed. He is a future star and I am hoping for 75 receptions, 1000 yards and 6 touchdowns this year as a realistic goal for him. But please be realistic about it, he is not the best ever like you seem to think, he can be jammed, he can be played in man to man and he is not easily good for 10 touchdowns.

Plus, lets not jinx it just look at Michael Clayton.
I confess, I'm a big Cal fan, you got me! Take it from someone who has followed his college career closely, he is doing exactly the same things that he did in college, except I don't see him facing the constant double and triple teams anymore, which was the only way they could stop him in college. Don't even get me started about the painful QB play he had in college. He had a 3rd string walk-on throwing him the ball at one point. Pac 10 teams simply stopped punting to him by his junior year, so I'm thrilled if teams keep underestimating him on punts. Personally, I don't believe in luck and there's a reason why only one other player has gained 100 yards in their first two games or why only a couple dozen other players in history have gained as many yards as a rookie. He did it agaist every teams best corner. And, just to be perfectly clear, I never came close to suggesting that he is "the best ever." For the record, I've got him as a top 15 to 25 receiver, with legit upside potential of moving into a top 8 to 10 WR. For my upcoming fantasy draft, I'd feel great if he's my second receiver in my 14 team league. Your statement that he has "questionable hands" is simply wrong. And please, the Devin Hester/Ted Ginn Jr. comparisons...unless we're talking about a 40 yard dash race, I honestly don't even understand the comparisons. I hardly even consider those guys wide receivers. Talk to me about Santonio Holmes or something. I have always said that Desean Jackson is a Santana Moss clone (good call there), but even with the crummy QB's that tana played with, he had 10 receiving TD's. Tana had 7 td's last year, and that's with Jason Campbell! As much as I like DJax, what I really like is the system that he's in. If I'm an opposing defense, you're picking your poison because you aren't going stop everyone and McNabb is a GREAT QB imo. Also, since you've got it figured out that "he can be jammed, he can be played in man to man," please pass the word on to Asante Samuel. He's not an all pro/pro bowler by accident. I'm not at the practices, but I'm listening to what people are saying (here and in the press), taking information from people who seem to be knowlegdable, taking their word for it, and reconciling with what I know. I begin to question someone telling me he's a one-trick-pony and to a lesser extent, has questionable hands. We can argue projections until we're blue in the face (I say 10, you say 6), but the bottom line is that Desean is a baller. With someone like him, I don't put any limitations on what a guy can do. Whether it's as a receiver, special teams, on a hand off, a reverse, the guy is getting in the endzone. So, get ready for the Bird Dance...
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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I confess, I'm a big Cal fan, you got me! Take it from someone who has followed his college career closely, he is doing exactly the same things that he did in college, except I don't see him facing the constant double and triple teams anymore, which was the only way they could stop him in college. Don't even get me started about the painful QB play he had in college. He had a 3rd string walk-on throwing him the ball at one point. Pac 10 teams simply stopped punting to him by his junior year, so I'm thrilled if teams keep underestimating him on punts. Personally, I don't believe in luck and there's a reason why only one other player has gained 100 yards in their first two games or why only a couple dozen other players in history have gained as many yards as a rookie. He did it agaist every teams best corner. And, just to be perfectly clear, I never came close to suggesting that he is "the best ever." For the record, I've got him as a top 15 to 25 receiver, with legit upside potential of moving into a top 8 to 10 WR. For my upcoming fantasy draft, I'd feel great if he's my second receiver in my 14 team league. Your statement that he has "questionable hands" is simply wrong. And please, the Devin Hester/Ted Ginn Jr. comparisons...unless we're talking about a 40 yard dash race, I honestly don't even understand the comparisons. I hardly even consider those guys wide receivers. Talk to me about Santonio Holmes or something. I have always said that Desean Jackson is a Santana Moss clone (good call there), but even with the crummy QB's that tana played with, he had 10 receiving TD's. Tana had 7 td's last year, and that's with Jason Campbell! As much as I like DJax, what I really like is the system that he's in. If I'm an opposing defense, you're picking your poison because you aren't going stop everyone and McNabb is a GREAT QB imo. Also, since you've got it figured out that "he can be jammed, he can be played in man to man," please pass the word on to Asante Samuel. He's not an all pro/pro bowler by accident. I'm not at the practices, but I'm listening to what people are saying (here and in the press), taking information from people who seem to be knowlegdable, taking their word for it, and reconciling with what I know. I begin to question someone telling me he's a one-trick-pony and to a lesser extent, has questionable hands. We can argue projections until we're blue in the face (I say 10, you say 6), but the bottom line is that Desean is a baller. With someone like him, I don't put any limitations on what a guy can do. Whether it's as a receiver, special teams, on a hand off, a reverse, the guy is getting in the endzone. So, get ready for the Bird Dance...
I love this post simply for the fact that you say DeSean is a baller, lol.

I will say one thing, from what I've seen of Ted Ginn recently, don't be surprised if he jumps out there and makes some significant contributions for Miami this year, he has refined his game, especially route running, wuite a bit.
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:03 AM    (permalink
mellojello
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I love this post simply for the fact that you say DeSean is a baller, lol.

I will say one thing, from what I've seen of Ted Ginn recently, don't be surprised if he jumps out there and makes some significant contributions for Miami this year, he has refined his game, especially route running, wuite a bit.
Thanks man. Hester and Ginn, they are playmakers, but in terms of being a WR, those guys are not very good comparisons. I have my eye on Ginn though. I'd take either late in my draft, but more like 3rd or 4th WR's, not a solid 2nd like Desean.
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Old 09-02-2009, 06:14 AM    (permalink
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Thanks man. Hester and Ginn, they are playmakers, but in terms of being a WR, those guys are not very good comparisons. I have my eye on Ginn though. I'd take either late in my draft, but more like 3rd or 4th WR's, not a solid 2nd like Desean.
I honestly think he can be a solid #2 this year, and getting near 1,000 yards out of him isn't out of the question IMO. It is the year primed for breakout years for WRs, and he has shown that he has improved greatly. I don't expect him to be a #1 ever, but I think this may be the year people start thinking of him as a true (er) WR than return man.
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:06 PM    (permalink
mellojello
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Man, I tried to get him but I waited too long and was forced to choose Chad Ochocinco instead. Man, life sucks...
I actually think Ochocinco is going to have a good year too. Chad should probably be drafted slightly higher than Desean imo, partly because I think they're going to be behind in a lot of games and throwing, but this is where I admit my homerism comes into play and I'd probaby just want to take Desean. Since chances are that my fantasy team doesn't win, I want to be rooting for guys I like.
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Old 09-02-2009, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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Okay, DeSean was great in college but this is the pros and everything he did at Cal is thrown out the door.

And trust me, DeSean's hands can be questionable, did I already mention that he only caught 55% of passes thrown in his direction. Go back to the NFC Championship game, on the deep pass where he adjusted to the ball he bobbled it and nearly dropped it.

Also, Asante Samuel? You're saying that Asante Samuel should be able to cover and press him? No, Asante gets a ton of over the top help because he isn't great in man to man coverage and he has never pressed anyone in his life. Also training camp is a bit different than game situations and those one on ones with corners and receivers heavily favor receivers. Asante's strengths are his instincts, zone coverage and ability to break on the ball, not man coverage and press coverage.

Also I said he was better than Ginn and Hester so no arguments there. I think he is on equal footing with Santonio Holmes right now.

DeSean is great, but you make him sound like he could be a top 10 receiver in the game which he is not, he has a way to go and I have the upmost confidence he will get there but please, lets not get ahead of ourselves.
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Old 09-02-2009, 11:44 PM    (permalink
mellojello
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Okay, DeSean was great in college but this is the pros and everything he did at Cal is thrown out the door.

And trust me, DeSean's hands can be questionable, did I already mention that he only caught 55% of passes thrown in his direction. Go back to the NFC Championship game, on the deep pass where he adjusted to the ball he bobbled it and nearly dropped it.

Also, Asante Samuel? You're saying that Asante Samuel should be able to cover and press him? No, Asante gets a ton of over the top help because he isn't great in man to man coverage and he has never pressed anyone in his life. Also training camp is a bit different than game situations and those one on ones with corners and receivers heavily favor receivers. Asante's strengths are his instincts, zone coverage and ability to break on the ball, not man coverage and press coverage.

Also I said he was better than Ginn and Hester so no arguments there. I think he is on equal footing with Santonio Holmes right now.

DeSean is great, but you make him sound like he could be a top 10 receiver in the game which he is not, he has a way to go and I have the upmost confidence he will get there but please, lets not get ahead of ourselves.
We'll have to agree to disagree on some things here, but at least we can both agree that we both like the guy.

Then only thing I will say is that when you throw out stats like "he only caught 55% of passes thrown in his direction," this is the stuff that gets recycled by people who don't watch much of him. Donavan's comp. % is 60.4%. Desean averaged a team high 14.7 yards/catch, so logically Desean's pass catching % should be lower than his QB's comp. %. Show me a WR who has as many yards/catch, plus has a higher catch percentage than his QB's comp. %, and I'll show you a great WR.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:23 AM    (permalink
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Okay, DeSean was great in college but this is the pros and everything he did at Cal is thrown out the door.

And trust me, DeSean's hands can be questionable, did I already mention that he only caught 55% of passes thrown in his direction. Go back to the NFC Championship game, on the deep pass where he adjusted to the ball he bobbled it and nearly dropped it.

Also, Asante Samuel? You're saying that Asante Samuel should be able to cover and press him? No, Asante gets a ton of over the top help because he isn't great in man to man coverage and he has never pressed anyone in his life. Also training camp is a bit different than game situations and those one on ones with corners and receivers heavily favor receivers. Asante's strengths are his instincts, zone coverage and ability to break on the ball, not man coverage and press coverage.

Also I said he was better than Ginn and Hester so no arguments there. I think he is on equal footing with Santonio Holmes right now.

DeSean is great, but you make him sound like he could be a top 10 receiver in the game which he is not, he has a way to go and I have the upmost confidence he will get there but please, lets not get ahead of ourselves.
I have a slight problem with this argument. I know he has had some drops, but this stat doesn't take into account bad throws or passes interfered with by defenders. This is where actually going back and watching the games is important. This stat has almost no use at all if you don't know how many times total he was targetted, how many of those targets were complete, how many were dropped, (these just as important in this stat) how many "tough catch opportunities" there were, how many of those passes weren't catchable, how many were batted down at the line, and how many were batted away, caught by defenders.

What I'm saying is though he does have some problems with drops at times, this stat makes it seem like he drops 45% of the passes thrown his way, which is defintiely not the case. Many of the factors that contribute to him not completing the balls thrown his way have nothing to do with him at all, they can be due to QB play or affected by opponents. We will most likely find that this stat will not be much better than this throughout his career because of his lack of size, but as usual with stats, they leave out a lot when you want to get a good conclusion, and this stat leaves out a lot of other factors.
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:26 AM    (permalink
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We'll have to agree to disagree on some things here, but at least we can both agree that we both like the guy.

Then only thing I will say is that when you throw out stats like "he only caught 55% of passes thrown in his direction," this is the stuff that gets recycled by people who don't watch much of him. Donavan's comp. % is 60.4%. Desean averaged a team high 14.7 yards/catch, so logically Desean's pass catching % should be lower than his QB's comp. %. Show me a WR who has as many yards/catch, plus has a higher catch percentage than his QB's comp. %, and I'll show you a great WR.
I probably shoudl've scrolled down a bit more to read yours before I posted mine lol. But together I think we got that base covered lol.
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Old 09-09-2009, 07:39 PM    (permalink
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I probably shoudl've scrolled down a bit more to read yours before I posted mine lol. But together I think we got that base covered lol.
No worries...missed out on Desean, he got taken relatively early in my fantasy draft, but ended up getting Santana Moss. Tana's a baller too. Took McNabb instead of Romo though. McNabb's really the guy driving the Philly bus, Desean's just the guy helping out, so needless to say, I'll be rooting for a prolific Philly offense.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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No worries...missed out on Desean, he got taken relatively early in my fantasy draft, but ended up getting Santana Moss. Tana's a baller too. Took McNabb instead of Romo though. McNabb's really the guy driving the Philly bus, Desean's just the guy helping out, so needless to say, I'll be rooting for a prolific Philly offense.
You and me both, lol.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:29 PM    (permalink
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You and me both, lol.
I knew the Eagles were going to be explosive, but with McNabb, the bus driver, injured, it changes EVERYTHING. Not sure Desean will be able to get those 9 more TD's with Kolb or Vick back there, but he may be able to take 1 or 2 more to the house on punt returns. At some point, NFL teams will realize it's not a good idea to punt to Desean, but as I said, I prefer when teams underestimate him. How did he look at the WR position today? Thanks.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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I know you weren't talking to me but w/e. He didn't get open, he was smothered all day by Chris Gamble, they shaded safety help over and DeSean didn't do much at WR. Everywhere else? That is a different story, he had 148 all purpose yards.

EDIT: And if anything Jackon's stats will go up, Kolb force feeds him the ball.
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