Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Team Boards > St. Louis Rams Team Forum

St. Louis Rams Team Forum Discuss the Rams

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-05-2009, 11:17 AM    (permalink
tfry
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 198
Reputation: 136
tfry hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default The Official St. Louis Rams 2010 Offseason Discussion Thread

Well, it's looking like we will have another top 10 (like top 5 pick) again in 2010. With that said, these are the things running through my mind right now.

1.) I don't think they will can Spags after just one season, but his specialty was the defensive line and although we aren't the most talented group, we do have a few pieces to work with. Thus far, I haven't see anything to get excited about.

2.) Laurent Robinson looks like a great acquisition and although injury prone, should be the answer for one of our receiving spots. Loved this trade earlier and I'm still thrilled even though we lost LR for the year.

3.) You would think the oline would dominate after the draft picks and signings the past couple years, but it still looks like a huge work in progress. Bell was a key FA signing in '08. Brown in '09. Barron and Smith were both 1st rounders. Yet we look terrible! How can we turn things around?

4.) Bulger just doesn't have it anymore. We have many other pressing issues, but I don't see us going any other direction that QB in round 1.

5.) What do you see as our biggest needs and in what order? This is my position draft as of today:

Rd 1 - QB - Boller and Null aren't the answers. Tavaris Jackson would be a nice camp body too.
Rd 2 - DE - Little is old and we need a future replacement and depth.
Rd 3 - DT - Carricker can't stay healthy and this is the heart and soul of Spags Defense.
Rd 4 - LB - Would round out our LB unit.
Rd 5 - RB - If Sjax goes down we are in a lot of trouble!
Rd 6 - WR - Depth is a huge concern when we are signing WR3's off the street.
Rd 7 - DB - Sooner or later one has to pan out.


Curious what your thoughts are on these points through just 4 weeks of the season. We knew it was going to be a tough year, but it's every bit and then some!!!

Last edited by tfry : 10-05-2009 at 11:19 AM.
tfry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2009, 10:45 AM    (permalink
freebirdsrams02
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 1,826
Reputation: 16309
freebirdsrams02 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.freebirdsrams02 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.freebirdsrams02 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.freebirdsrams02 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.freebirdsrams02 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.freebirdsrams02 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.freebirdsrams02 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.freebirdsrams02 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.freebirdsrams02 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.freebirdsrams02 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.freebirdsrams02 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I like taking a QB in the first, but I think the WR/RB spots might be moved up instead of taking two d-lne back to back. I thought our D-Line did a descent job on sunday against the 49ers. But the lack of a deep threat and a speedster in the backfield is hurting the Rams offense.

Rd 1. QB
Rd 2. WR
Rd 3. D-Line/RB
__________________


Sig made by Falcon from E Oakland

"Spread'em and Shread'em"
freebirdsrams02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2009, 11:18 PM    (permalink
holt_bruce81
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 9,147
Reputation: 627800
holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Rams should make a big push to get Lendale White in the offseason.

He'd be a perfect #2 to Jackson and Devaney has been talking for two years now how he wants a 1b type running back.

As for the draft......I'm really not sure what I want them to do. If guys like Locker and Clausen don't come out is there a Quarterback worth a top 5 pick? I wouldn't mind Dez Bryant but is he worth a top 5 pick? Ndamukong Suh looks to be an absolute beast but do we really draft a 1st round Defensive Tackle again?
__________________
holt_bruce81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2009, 09:43 AM    (permalink
NGSeiler
Team Leader
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Morgantown, WV
Posts: 2,919
Reputation: 91178
NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Addressing your points, tfry...

1) Obviously they won't fire Spags after one season, nor should they. I think we're seeing some good things on the defensive line. The Rams have some young guys who were waiver wire material showing some flashes at DT. Chris Long isn't showing up on the stat sheet, but he's been getting better pressure I think. This unit is really pretty devoid of top talent at three of four positions.

2) Robinson does look like a quality player for us, but it's going to be hard to truly count on him as a full time starter when he's yet to prove he can live up to the "full time" part of the equation. The Rams need another starting-caliber receiver if only because no one else on this team is making plays in this offense. Avery in the slot may be a good move for him. If the Rams can't lure a free agent receiver, they may have to devote a high pick to the position in the draft.

3) I agree, the offensive line has been disappointing thus far considering what's been invested in it. Barron does not have the drive or motivation to live up to his potential. Incognito is similar - has the talent to succeed but doesn't seem to play consistently and can't be counted on to not make a big negative play. Bell was a disappointment in 2008 and I haven't seen a lot in 2009 to change that opinion. Too soon to judge Brown. Smith has been out with a knee injury, I imagine he'll help improve things a bit once he returns. I would anticipate at least three new starters on this line next season (Smith @ LT, new RT, new RG).

4) If you don't think Bulger can play anymore, go back and watch the Washington game. The guy can still be effective, but there's just nothing on this offense that's really doing well. The thing about Bulger though is that he's not the future of this franchise, and the Rams need to find their next quarterback. Does that have to be in the first round? I don't know. When it's all said and done, the candidates that could go in the Top Five may not excite people. It's going to be fun seeing how the fan base reacts to Bradford as a candidate, since most Rams fans want someone capable of making plays on the move. If the Rams can get a Colt McCoy at the top of the second round, and use that first rounder for something else, that might be ideal.

5) Biggest needs? If the Rams don't address offensive skill positions in this draft until the fifth and sixth round, then they're going to be in trouble. Robinson is solid but can't stay healthy. Avery may be experiencing a drop in confidence but he isn't a fit for these short routes Shurmur is using him in. Burton shows a flash here or there but isn't a difference maker. Beyond those three, the Rams are just throwing in guys they've found off the street. Finding a WR that can be a difference maker in a WCO style offense should be a priority. If the Rams don't do it in free agency, they need to consider using a high pick at the position. I'm very intrigued by Dez Bryant. QB is a need as well, but I want to see how things start shaping up before locking it in as the first-round direction. Defensive line has some big needs as well. Another disruptive pass rusher to replace Little is needed. Some more talent inside at DT is needed. I'd contend some help at LB and CB wouldn't hurt. A new tight end would be nice.

There aren't many positions on this team that couldn't use some help. But look at some of our games this year, with less than ideal talent. In Seattle, this defense was step for step and the Rams were in the game if the offense could have done anything in the first quarter. The red zone defense in Washington was phenomenal. Turnovers rather than poor defense put the Rams in trouble against Green Bay early on, and the 49ers really didn't do a whole lot offensively against the Rams (21 of 35 points off of turnovers).

I'm not trying to argue that this is a great defense, but I think it's clearly doing better than what we're seeing on offense, and for three years now we know that simply plugging in a new QB doesn't solve the other glaring (and I'd argue bigger) offensive problems. Frerotte didn't change things, Green didn't change things, Boller hasn't changed things. If the Rams go 1st round QB and then don't address the offense again until selecting a back-up running back in the fifth round, then it's probably going to be another tough season. Some fans lament the huge Bulger deal, but a first round QB where we pick will probably get more money. Now imagine he becomes David Carr on this team. Not saying don't pick one, just saying you've got to address the other problems as well or else what's the point?

Though it's early in the process and obviously a lot can change between now and then, I would probably look for some kind of combination of WR/QB/DL in the first three rounds.
__________________
NGSeiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 09:03 PM    (permalink
holt_bruce81
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 9,147
Reputation: 627800
holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Looking at the draft, would anyone be upset if we drafted Ndamukong Suh? I mean I hate the thought of drafting ANOTHER Defensive Tackle in the 1st round, but Suh is going to be an absolute monster in the NFL.

I hate Nebraska, but I'm in love with this dude.
__________________
holt_bruce81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2009, 11:51 PM    (permalink
rockio42
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 2,501
Reputation: 54247
rockio42 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rockio42 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rockio42 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rockio42 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rockio42 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rockio42 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rockio42 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rockio42 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rockio42 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rockio42 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.rockio42 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 View Post
Looking at the draft, would anyone be upset if we drafted Ndamukong Suh? I mean I hate the thought of drafting ANOTHER Defensive Tackle in the 1st round, but Suh is going to be an absolute monster in the NFL.

I hate Nebraska, but I'm in love with this dude.
After watching and helping call the game on Thursday I hate him so much...and want him on the Rams...he is the real deal but I think a guy like Bryant (assuming and hoping we have higher than the 4th pick or so) might be a bigger need...
__________________
I'm doing a real job now...well, semi-real.

Check out my twitter @mrocchio42 and check out my radio show on wqqx1490am.com. I'm on every morning with Pro Football HoF voter and NFL regular season awards voter, Howard Balzer. It's always a blast from 9-11.
rockio42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2009, 11:34 AM    (permalink
NGSeiler
Team Leader
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Morgantown, WV
Posts: 2,919
Reputation: 91178
NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 View Post
Looking at the draft, would anyone be upset if we drafted Ndamukong Suh? I mean I hate the thought of drafting ANOTHER Defensive Tackle in the 1st round, but Suh is going to be an absolute monster in the NFL.

I hate Nebraska, but I'm in love with this dude.
Probably depends on where we ultimately end up picking, but if the Rams don't go with a QB with their first pick, then I think someone like Suh has about as good a shot as anyone at being the selection. The Rams could certainly use some more talent and production from the DT position.
__________________
NGSeiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 10:42 AM    (permalink
NGSeiler
Team Leader
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Morgantown, WV
Posts: 2,919
Reputation: 91178
NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

This wasn't exactly a great weekend for top QB draft prospects. Bradford re-injured his shoulder and now you've got to be worried a bit about his durability. McCoy for the second week in a row didn't look very impressive. I didn't get a chance to see Clausen against USC, but I've read some observations that he wasn't mind blowing. Pike was injured. Locker threw two picks in a loss to Arizona State.

If the Rams pick in the top three selections, is there going to be a signal-caller worthy of the pick? You'd have to think someone is going to be valued up there, as there hasn't been a draft without a top three QB selection since 2000. But as of right now, I can't say I'm particularly in love with any of these guys as a high first round selection.
__________________
NGSeiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 11:39 AM    (permalink
KCJ58
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: From So Cal, now in Radford, VA
Posts: 16,190
Reputation: 1025998
KCJ58 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.KCJ58 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.KCJ58 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.KCJ58 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.KCJ58 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.KCJ58 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.KCJ58 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.KCJ58 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.KCJ58 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.KCJ58 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.KCJ58 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 View Post
Looking at the draft, would anyone be upset if we drafted Ndamukong Suh? I mean I hate the thought of drafting ANOTHER Defensive Tackle in the 1st round, but Suh is going to be an absolute monster in the NFL.

I hate Nebraska, but I'm in love with this dude.
I'm kind of right there with on Suh, maybe he can have a huge combine and climb his way to the top 5
__________________

KCJ58 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2009, 02:54 AM    (permalink
stlouisfan37
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,230
Reputation: 163516
stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Hi guys. My name is Scott and I'm new here. I really like this website. I have been using it as a draft tool for years and never realized there was a message board attached!

I live in Seattle and I can tell you that Jake Locker is almost a sure thing to come out. As much improvement as the new regime at UW is showing, there just isn't enough reason for him to pass up a huge payday, especially with the threat of a rookie salary cap on the horizon.

My philosophy is to trade down and out of top 10 picks to pick up more talent. That is the one thing the Rams don't have. I think the players are buying into Spags' system, and I think he will find success here, but right now we are just not talented enough. My plan would be as follows. For sake of argument, let's assume we have the #1 pick.

1) If Locker is there I would take him. Let it be known that I do follow the Huskies as they are my local team, but I am not a loyal Husky fan and actually spend more of my time following small college football. I believe that I am being objective when I say that he is the real deal and his upside is tremendous. Other than on a few rare occasions I have never thought a QB was a good choice with a really high pick for a rebuilding team, but I think he is worth the risk. While our line is not very good yet, we do have some very good pieces with which to build. Locker is elusive enough to get himself out of a lot of trouble so as to not get pounded. Bulger is just getting worse and worse by the game. He needs to go. If Locker is not there, I would trade down if possible. If not I would take the very best player available, regardless of position. Safety is often considered a luxury in the NFL, but a duo of Taylor Mays and Atogwe would be mouthwatering.

2) Every year there is a player that someone is willing to give a lot for in the late 1/early 2 area. There always seems to be a lot of movement at the close of the first round. I would absolutely trade down to pick up an extra 3rd rounder or a pick the following year. If I stand pat I take the best player available, regardless of position.

3) The 3rd round, I believe, is the key to building a strong offensive line. Every year there is an excellent lineman that falls to the 3rd round from a mid-late 1st round grade. My philosophy is that if a team were to pick the best offensive lineman available in the 3rd round every year, they would build a solid core of workmanlike lunchpail linemen who were hungry, dependable, and talented enough to make an awesome line. We are on the way to having a typical NFL line, where one or two guys make a buttload of money and are surrounded by 5th and 6th rounders who are not really all that good. I believe that balance is the key to a great line.

4) With the rest of the draft I take the best player available, regardless of position. We need so much help everywhere that at this point we just need more talent. WR is glaring, but is also one of the most difficult squads to build from the ground up. Look at teams like Detroit, who needed a passing game so they just kept throwing 1st round picks at receivers. They finally got it right with Calvin Johnson, but that was after years of agony...I believe we need a quiet veteran presence that is productive and has the gift of teaching and will set a positive example. We also need a great young talent with all the necessary tools that is hungry and wants to be groomed. A guy like Freddie Barnes could be a steal on day 2.
stlouisfan37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 05:54 PM    (permalink
NGSeiler
Team Leader
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Morgantown, WV
Posts: 2,919
Reputation: 91178
NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
1) If Locker is there I would take him.
Rams currently hold the top pick in the most recent draft order after losing to Indy, so everyone will be there when they're on the clock. The question becomes whether or not Locker is the best player in this draft, because I don't think the Rams should take a QB just for the sake of taking one. A lot can happen between now and April, but right now I think the only way you could justify one of these quarterbacks being the first guy off the board is because of the contract you'll be shelling out. I'm not yet in love with any of these guys, but of those in the hunt, Locker is probably one of the most intriguing to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
2) Every year there is a player that someone is willing to give a lot for in the late 1/early 2 area. There always seems to be a lot of movement at the close of the first round. I would absolutely trade down to pick up an extra 3rd rounder or a pick the following year. If I stand pat I take the best player available, regardless of position.
I'm not sure I trade down unless a 2011 first rounder is in the package. It'd be nice to move down and get another third rounder, sure. But this team is desperate for some playmaking talent. With a high pick in the second round, they'll be in a good position to grab someone who maybe was on the verge of being a first rounder but just didn't have his name called. If there's a potential #1 receiver on the board, for instance, I think it's tough to move out of that spot. Same for a pass rushing DE or some help at TE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
3) The 3rd round, I believe, is the key to building a strong offensive line. Every year there is an excellent lineman that falls to the 3rd round from a mid-late 1st round grade. My philosophy is that if a team were to pick the best offensive lineman available in the 3rd round every year, they would build a solid core of workmanlike lunchpail linemen who were hungry, dependable, and talented enough to make an awesome line. We are on the way to having a typical NFL line, where one or two guys make a buttload of money and are surrounded by 5th and 6th rounders who are not really all that good. I believe that balance is the key to a great line.
With Smith likely moving to LT next year and Barron likely hitting the road, the Rams could use a new right tackle. There may also be a vacancy at guard if Incognito moves on. I wouldn't be opposed to spending a mid round pick on a lineman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
WR is glaring, but is also one of the most difficult squads to build from the ground up. Look at teams like Detroit, who needed a passing game so they just kept throwing 1st round picks at receivers.
Ideally a veteran would be great, but what's the likelihood of the Rams nabbing a legit veteran #1 receiver either in free agency or in trade? Yes, the Lions struggled to find a receiver able to live up to his draft status for a while, but you can't let their example dictate what you do any more than you'd let previous QB busts prevent you from ever drafting a first round QB. You just have to evaluate these guys and trust what you see. If there's a wide receiver who grades out as being of good value for when the Rams ultimately select, I think he has to be a consideration. This team is desperate for a difference maker in the passing game. Trying to make a living off of other teams' practice squad guys or 6th receivers just isn't going to cut it.
__________________
NGSeiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2009, 10:22 PM    (permalink
stlouisfan37
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,230
Reputation: 163516
stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

NGSEILER,

You bring up some very good arguments. However, the underlying message that keeps coming through in your argument is filling needs. I am not suggesting that these needs do not need to be filled. In fact, quite the contrary. The fact is that this team has so many needs that there is no area where you could honestly say we are good on talent.

The theory behind drafting the best player available is that, through the course of variables, each position will eventually be addressed. Most of the strongest teams in the NFL use this philosophy, and it works because an injury or two does not ruin your whole season. Just take a look at the depth charts on the teams that consistently win 10 games every year...many of their backups could start for team like the Rams and Lions. Yet every year we go back to the draft and handpick player by player, and chalk them in as a "need filled".

What we really need to do is trade down at any time possible and accumulate picks along the way. Super Bowls are not won with hig draft picks, they are won with middle round picks, guys who have all the talent of the higher picks but haven't necessarily blossomed by the time they are 22. Take a look at the 2 drafts that are widely considered the best drafts in NFL history. The '74 Steelers got 4 HOFers from their draft; Lynn Swann was the only 1st rounder, and he was in the mid teens. The '86 49ers pulled 8 starters from the draft, none of them in the first round, and 7 of those players started in two Super Bowls. So I respectfully disagree when you say that we can't trade down when there is a highly talented WR or DE on the board. We don't need a handful of studs. We need a buttload of players who will become very good and bring us back to respectability. We have been pulling two decent players from the draft each year for way too long. We need depth at all positions. We can't afford to keep drafting a few "maybe stars" while we watch all our talent bolt in free agency.
stlouisfan37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 04:58 PM    (permalink
NGSeiler
Team Leader
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Morgantown, WV
Posts: 2,919
Reputation: 91178
NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
The theory behind drafting the best player available is that, through the course of variables, each position will eventually be addressed. Most of the strongest teams in the NFL use this philosophy, and it works because an injury or two does not ruin your whole season. Just take a look at the depth charts on the teams that consistently win 10 games every year...many of their backups could start for team like the Rams and Lions. Yet every year we go back to the draft and handpick player by player, and chalk them in as a "need filled".
Not sure I agree with this. It simply isn't a black and white issue, needs vs. BPA. There is nuance and gray area in both strategies. I think you would actually be pretty hard pressed to find a successful NFL franchise that drafts STRICTLY using a best player available theory. In the early rounds, I think most teams very strongly consider at least the long-term needs of their franchise when making those selections.

I mean, a strict BPA is pretty easy to shoot down. Unless you believe teams like KC, Tampa Bay, Detroit, the Giants, and the Steelers would all draft quarterbacks in the first round if a signal-caller was the best player available, then you have to acknowledge there is some nuance to the theory as well. Let's face it, the Minnesota Vikings aren't likely to spend a first round pick on a running back, even if a runner is the BPA when the Vikes are on the clock. And there are plenty of teams where one injury would probably ruin their season.

The Rams right now are very devoid of talent, and as you said, there are few if any areas where the Rams could pass on taking a player. But let's be honest, if the BPA when the Rams pick in round one is a franchise left tackle or a middle linebacker, are they making that pick? Probably not. Again, this is why a strict BPA approach does not hold water. There has to be some nuance and some wiggle room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
What we really need to do is trade down at any time possible and accumulate picks along the way.
Again, I'm not sure I'd agree. Trading down if you can get a good deal is fine, but at what point do you draw the line? I mean, "trade down at any time possible?" So, would you advocate trading down so much that we basically have every pick in the fifth and sixth round?

At some point you've got to make some picks, and this team isn't talented enough (and may not be good enough yet from a scouting perspective) to trade down, trade down, trade down, and then find all the answers to their problems in the mid-round.

It's interesting that the two teams you brought up - the '74 Steelers and '86 49ers - were both already pretty good when they had the drafts you referenced. The '72 and '73 Steelers had a combined record of 21-7 in the two years prior to their '74 draft. The '86 49ers were 35-13 in their three previous seasons and had just won a Super Bowl in '84.

And let's face it, the Rams essentially did exactly what you're advocating in 2006 - they traded down with Denver and acquired an extra third round pick. Yet it didn't work, as neither their first round pick nor either of their third rounders are still on this team. So just trading down and acquiring more picks isn't really a solution all by itself.

The important lesson to learn from drafts like the '74 Steelers and the '86 49ers, and probably the '06 Rams draft, is how important it is to hit on every chance you get when making a pick. And that's the case if you're picking with your original pick or if you've traded up or down. The Rams' drafts in recent years have been abysmal, because so many of their picks have ended up as misses for whatever reason.

Now sure, the Rams could trade down any chance they get and just keep acquiring more picks. And sometimes trading down works. The Rams should always be open to trade offers. But at the same time, if there's a guy on the board that the Rams really think can fit what they want to do and help their franchise over the next decade, and he's good value where you're picking, you're going to tell me you don't make the pick because you'd rather have four picks in the fourth round or something like that? I just don't see it. If you're not in love with the guys currently available, and there's a trade offer that's solid, then sure, go for it. But don't just trade down simply to trade down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
So I respectfully disagree when you say that we can't trade down when there is a highly talented WR or DE on the board.
That's not really what I said, though. I said, "If there's a potential #1 receiver on the board, for instance, I think it's tough to move out of that spot. Same for a pass rushing DE or some help at TE." And going back to your claim, I don't think you'll find many successful teams who regularly pass on top talent that could help them so they can have more mid-round picks to experiment with.

And yes, I think this offense is certainly in need of a stud. The Rams' receiving corps is already filled with a bunch of depth guys. They may have a starter in either Robinson or Avery, but even when both of those guys were starting, this offense was sputtering and struggling to do anything through the air. This team simply does not have a true difference making #1 receiver, and it sorely needs one because this passing game doesn't scare anyone.

Now, that's not to say this team is 2-3 studs away from being a contender. I agree we have a lot of needs. But yeah, some of those needs are for difference makers, not just solid depth guys or situational players. So if there's a guy sitting at the top of the second round whom I think could develop into a difference maker for this team, who fits what I want to do schematically, then I do think it would be pretty tough to move out of that spot simply for the sake of collecting more picks.

The goal should be hitting on the picks you have, wherever you have them.
__________________
NGSeiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 05:06 PM    (permalink
GatorsBullsFan
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Petersburg, FL.
Posts: 445
Reputation: -3436
GatorsBullsFan GatorsBullsFan GatorsBullsFan GatorsBullsFan GatorsBullsFan GatorsBullsFan GatorsBullsFan GatorsBullsFan GatorsBullsFan
Default

I think you guys should trade Stephen Jackson for more picks...I know you could get a 1st and 4th for him right now...possibly more

lol I just feel bad for this team because as of right now Chris Long and Adam Carriker have looked like busts and to waste 2 first rounders like that is not good
__________________

Thanks BoneKrusher
IN SHAD WE TRUST
GatorsBullsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 07:50 PM    (permalink
holt_bruce81
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 9,147
Reputation: 627800
holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorsBullsFan View Post
I think you guys should trade Stephen Jackson for more picks...I know you could get a 1st and 4th for him right now...possibly more

lol I just feel bad for this team because as of right now Chris Long and Adam Carriker have looked like busts and to waste 2 first rounders like that is not good
That would be terrible. I would puke.
__________________
holt_bruce81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2009, 10:30 PM    (permalink
stlouisfan37
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,230
Reputation: 163516
stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.stlouisfan37 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Seiler,

Points well taken. I must agree somewhat.

Let me please just qualify my statement about building a team by taking the BPA regardless of position by saying that, what I meant was, using this philosophy until a strong core of talent is developed. Once this has been achieved is when you can go ahead and hand-pick key players at certain positions.

True, we do have a few places covered, like LT and MLB. So what I am suggesting is that, if the BPA is an LT or MLB, then you trade down and acquire another pick. Does it really matter if we draft a linebacker or defensive tackle with a given pick, as long as we recognize that we need talent across the board?

Let me ask you this question: If you had the #1 pick, and you could choose between having the first pick in each of the first three rounds, or you could have two picks in each of the first three rounds. but all of the picks were at the end of the rounds, which would be more productive for building this team from the ground up?
stlouisfan37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2009, 03:03 PM    (permalink
NGSeiler
Team Leader
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Morgantown, WV
Posts: 2,919
Reputation: 91178
NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
Let me ask you this question: If you had the #1 pick, and you could choose between having the first pick in each of the first three rounds, or you could have two picks in each of the first three rounds. but all of the picks were at the end of the rounds, which would be more productive for building this team from the ground up?
The difference is that you're speaking in generalities whereas I'm speaking in specific situations. Generalities are fine, but if I'm sitting at the top of the second round with whom I consider a difference making WR available, then no, I'm not particularly inclined to trade down simply for the extra pick it may result in. If there's no one there whom I'm in love with and have a good offer on the table, then I'm more inclined to move. But having more picks just for the sake of having them isn't a gateway to success. Again, all we have to do is look back to the 2006 Rams draft to understand that trading down doesn't always work in the team's favor.
__________________
NGSeiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2009, 04:26 PM    (permalink
GatorsBullsFan
Rookie
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Petersburg, FL.
Posts: 445
Reputation: -3436
GatorsBullsFan GatorsBullsFan GatorsBullsFan GatorsBullsFan GatorsBullsFan GatorsBullsFan GatorsBullsFan GatorsBullsFan GatorsBullsFan
Default

It is always hard to trade the first overall pick because the teams that are trying to trade the first overall pick always want too much for it
__________________

Thanks BoneKrusher
IN SHAD WE TRUST
GatorsBullsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2009, 08:42 PM    (permalink
tfry
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 198
Reputation: 136
tfry hopes to escalate quickly but not get out of hand.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorsBullsFan View Post
lol I just feel bad for this team because as of right now Chris Long and Adam Carriker have looked like busts and to waste 2 first rounders like that is not good
Don't forget about the other busts of the decade:
2008 - Chirs Long: Jury is still out. But he hasn't shown much.
2007 - Adam Carricker: Injuries...
2006 - Tye Hill: Already off the team because he was so bad.
2005 - Alex Barron: Underachiever who is only on the team by default.
2003 - Jimmy Kennedy: I consider this the worst 1st round pick of the decade.
2002 - Damien Lewis: Another terrible pick!
2001 - Robert Thomas: Didn't do much while in St. Louis
2000 - Trung Canidate: I barely even remember this guy!

As it stands, the Rams have only landed one player that I consider decent or better in the first round and that is Sjax. That my friend is why the Rams are drafting in the top 3 for the third straight year. Yes, you need depth at all position, but talent is what wins and in the first round you can't afford to miss 8 out of 9 picks.
tfry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2009, 09:02 PM    (permalink
holt_bruce81
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 9,147
Reputation: 627800
holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tfry View Post
Don't forget about the other busts of the decade:
2008 - Chirs Long: Jury is still out. But he hasn't shown much.
2007 - Adam Carricker: Injuries...
2006 - Tye Hill: Already off the team because he was so bad.
2005 - Alex Barron: Underachiever who is only on the team by default.
2003 - Jimmy Kennedy: I consider this the worst 1st round pick of the decade.
2002 - Damien Lewis: Another terrible pick!
2001 - Robert Thomas: Didn't do much while in St. Louis
2000 - Trung Canidate: I barely even remember this guy!

As it stands, the Rams have only landed one player that I consider decent or better in the first round and that is Sjax. That my friend is why the Rams are drafting in the top 3 for the third straight year. Yes, you need depth at all position, but talent is what wins and in the first round you can't afford to miss 8 out of 9 picks.
Alex Barron is a very good Offensive Tackle.
__________________
holt_bruce81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2009, 09:04 PM    (permalink
holt_bruce81
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 9,147
Reputation: 627800
holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Anyone see the new mock? Sam Bradford......

I'm a Mizzou guy but I'm still a big Bradford fan. But with the Shoulder injuries, I don't know, I would rather take Clausen or Locker if they come out. I just think Bradford has bigger bust potential, and a bust at the Quarterback position for the Rams could mean bye bye St. Louis.
__________________
holt_bruce81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2009, 01:42 AM    (permalink
NGSeiler
Team Leader
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Morgantown, WV
Posts: 2,919
Reputation: 91178
NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tfry View Post
2008 - Chirs Long: Jury is still out. But he hasn't shown much.
He hasn't shown up as much on the stat sheet as you'd like, but he's very active if you're watching the games, especially against the run. I think as he continues to learn some more pass rush technique, he'll have a good chance to grow and potentially be a special player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 View Post
Alex Barron is a very good Offensive Tackle.
...when he wants to be, which is the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 View Post
Anyone see the new mock? Sam Bradford......

I'm a Mizzou guy but I'm still a big Bradford fan. But with the Shoulder injuries, I don't know, I would rather take Clausen or Locker if they come out. I just think Bradford has bigger bust potential, and a bust at the Quarterback position for the Rams could mean bye bye St. Louis.
The injuries worry me, sure. When you're going to drop $60-70 million on a new QB, you want to make sure he's going to be on the field. And it's not as if the AC joint has been Bradford's first collegiate injury. So durability is a concern. Right now I'd probably prefer Locker but I need to sit down and watch more of his games. I'm not really in love yet with any of these guys, and if the Rams end up feeling the same way come April, I hope they pass and take someone they are in love with, even if he's not a QB. This team needs a QB of the future, but that's no reason to take a QB just for the heck of it. Make sure he's the right guy, and if he is, then make the pick.
__________________
NGSeiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 09:27 PM    (permalink
holt_bruce81
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 9,147
Reputation: 627800
holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

What's everyones thought on taking Eric Berry or Taylor Mays? I know the Rams have solid safeties, but I wouldn't call them elite safeties, and we've seen how an Elite Safety can change an Entire Defense (Bob Sanders, Troy Polamalu)
__________________
holt_bruce81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2009, 09:11 AM    (permalink
NGSeiler
Team Leader
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Morgantown, WV
Posts: 2,919
Reputation: 91178
NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.NGSeiler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 View Post
What's everyones thought on taking Eric Berry or Taylor Mays? I know the Rams have solid safeties, but I wouldn't call them elite safeties, and we've seen how an Elite Safety can change an Entire Defense (Bob Sanders, Troy Polamalu)
I think it would be tough to pull the trigger on either of them with a Top 3 pick, which is what the Rams appeared poised to have at this point. But I'd prefer Berry moreso than Mays, and I guess you could argue that if you let Atogwe walk, it's easier to draft Berry and give him a $50-60 million deal. Still, that's a lot for a rookie, especially a safety.
__________________
NGSeiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2009, 03:53 PM    (permalink
holt_bruce81
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 9,147
Reputation: 627800
holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.holt_bruce81 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NGSeiler View Post
I think it would be tough to pull the trigger on either of them with a Top 3 pick, which is what the Rams appeared poised to have at this point. But I'd prefer Berry moreso than Mays, and I guess you could argue that if you let Atogwe walk, it's easier to draft Berry and give him a $50-60 million deal. Still, that's a lot for a rookie, especially a safety.
Yeah I'd prefer Berry over Mays as well. And I agree, it is tough to give a rookie Safety 50-60 million.
__________________
holt_bruce81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.