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Old 10-29-2009, 02:47 AM    (permalink
Paranoidmoonduck
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Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
Made one of those avatars. People were dropping him out the top twenty in mocks.
Yeah, it got pretty crazy. I made plenty of arguments as to why Peterson worried me and why Lynch might wind up with the longer NFL career, but I never had Peterson slotted as being anything but the #1 runner in mocks.
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Old 10-29-2009, 02:51 AM    (permalink
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Damn, this thread makes me wanna rock that avy again. I never had Peterson as anything but the best pure RB prospect Id ever seen. Who still has one of those avys kicking around?
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Old 10-29-2009, 02:54 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck View Post
Yeah, it got pretty crazy. I made plenty of arguments as to why Peterson worried me and why Lynch might wind up with the longer NFL career, but I never had Peterson slotted as being anything but the #1 runner in mocks.
Lynch looked really, really good his last few years at Cal. Didn't have the injury history Peterson had, didn't run as upright, didn't have the same aggressive running style. Those were the arguments most people made, I think. A lot of them weren't wrong....but they completely glazed over just how freaky, freaky talented AD is.
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Old 10-29-2009, 08:11 AM    (permalink
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Damn, this thread makes me wanna rock that avy again. I never had Peterson as anything but the best pure RB prospect Id ever seen. Who still has one of those avys kicking around?
I remember I was extremely high on AP... one of the proudest things in my ''scouting'' life lol...
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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I remembered McFadden being compared to Peterson, maybe not on this site, not that they were exactly equal prospects.

Physically they are very similar except that DMC is not elusive.

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Old 10-29-2009, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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It's hard to compare because they came out in different drafts, but I thought McFadden and Peterson were on the same level, prospect wise. they drew obvious comparisons.

Peterson had injurie concerns and McFadden had character issues.

but, there were people that really didn't like Peterson because of his upright running style and injury history.
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
chester taylor averaged about 4.4ypc his final three years in baltimore. i hardly think the extra tenth of a yard in minnesota is all that relevant or indicative that dmc would suddenly turn into a competent back.
He wasn't the feature back in Baltimore.
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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Where were you prior to the 2008 draft? I'd say at least 60% of this board had McFadden as being a better prospect than Peterson.

The Vikings' offensive line might be a lot better than the Raiders, but it isn't like Minnesota had a competent passing game until this year.
IIRC some people on this board said that McFadden was a worse prospect than Chris Johnson.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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I though D-Mac would be a star back, but during evaluations one thing people messed up on is not realizing that he doesn't have much elusiveness at all. He's a downhill, straight line runner with a quality stiff arm, but his open field moves aren't really there.

Also consider how many snaps he got out of the Wildcat in college. Definitely helped create running lanes galore for him. That said, there are still lots of skills he brings to the table.
I would say the Wildhog with him and Felix Jones inflated him as a prospect, no doubt. No one knew how to stop it and it made McFadden a more productive and thus higher rated prospect.
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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i'm sure you'll be editing that post shortly to include the relevance.
Nah. He never carried the ball more than 160 times in his Baltimore years. YPC averages are very manipulative to runners with lower carry totals. 4.5 YPC on 160 attempts isn't as impressive as 4 YPC on 303 attempts. Attempting to compare them is ridiculous.

Given that he could stay healthy,McFadden would average far more than tenth of a yard per carry if he was the feature back in Minnesota.
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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chester taylor averaged about 4.4ypc his final three years in baltimore. i hardly think the extra tenth of a yard in minnesota is all that relevant or indicative that dmc would suddenly turn into a competent back.
I wasn't aware I was using Taylor's YPC as evidence of anything regarding McFadden. I pointed out that Taylor's YPC in Minnesota isn't lagging that far behind Peterson's despite Peterson's huge talent advantage. Then I suggested that even a great runner ("great" being anything short of Barry Sanders) on Oakland wouldn't be posting a YPC that a slightly above average runner (such as Taylor) is posting for Minnesota. Which seems pretty true to me.
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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When came out i said he had hall of fame potential....I didn't say that about DMC
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Wait, you guys mean the Marshawn Lynch hype was serious on this forum? I always thought that was just an elaborate joke by keak and his friends

Adrian Peterson was the best RB prospect I had ever seen after his freshman year (I'm 22 so, doesnt go back that far...). I wouldve taken him top 3 after that year and I am not big on taking RBs early. He was that good and anyone that watched college fb knew it

Darren McFadden headed a gimmick offense and looked like a WR when he ran. I dont remember anyone saying he was as good a prospect other than "well he's not as good as AD, but he doesnt have the injury concerns." Mayock absolutely destroyed him pre-draft and had him the #3 RB while a lot of people on this forum had either 1 or 2 other guys ahead of him. Come on

Actually, maybe the gimmick offense is hindsight. But the running style, chicken legs, even fumbling problem were all well known. I remember every time I watched Arkansas being more impressed with Felix Jones as an RB but there were always doubts about how he'd do w/o the defense keying in on McFadden and after his poor combine numbers his hype really quieted down, but the evidence was out there on game tape
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Old 10-29-2009, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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Old 10-29-2009, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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I don't think McFadden gets a pass so much as it's just easier to say the Raiders are a joke. Actually breaking down the individual efforts (or lack thereof) seems like more work than a normal, average guy should bother undertaking.
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Old 10-29-2009, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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and i suggested that taylor's ypc in minnesota is entirely irrelevant, given past performance. i think an average runner would find more success on 90% of the teams in the nfl than they would in oakland (sorry). the fact that taylor is averaging 0.1 ypc more in minnesota than he did in oakland is irrelevant.
You mean Baltimore? Sure, but that (Taylor's historical YPC) wasn't the comparison I was drawing. I think you're right that basically any runner who was part of a more functional offense would have better numbers and so I could have drawn a line to any runner who wasn't on Oakland. But Halsey brought up Peterson as part of his pretty illogical argument and so I drew the closest line there was to draw there, which was Taylor.

I'm still confused as to what in my post you take issue with.
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Old 10-29-2009, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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Except that's not what I was responding to. I was responding to the question of how Peterson would fair in Oakland versus how he has fared in Minnesota and was drawing a comparison to the other runner who had run behind that Minnesota line during Peterson's three years.

I didn't mean that Chester Taylor's last 2.5 seasons in Minnesota indicate anything about McFadden, but they do indicate that not all of Peterson's awesome yardage is a result of his willpower or standards of excellence (like Halsey implicated in his first post). I was taking exception to the idea that the only difference between Peterson's and McFadden's respective NFL careers to date was drive and talent, when the functionality of their offenses is such an obvious factor. Taylor was a way to show that Minnesota had less than stellar runners who were effective in that offense.
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he is comparing anything to Baltimore, just saying that an average back (Taylor, who is an average RB) is putting up decent stats in the same offense than Peterson plays in, so it's not all Peterson completely dominating everyone by himself.
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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but that doesnt lead to any conclusion about oakland
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Old 10-29-2009, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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Chester Taylor isn't a good example; Baltimore had a very good O-Line at the time.
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Old 10-29-2009, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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I had McFadden as the best running back prospect by a lot that year, but had JStew as being a much more pro-ready back with all his bulk. I had Peterson as my number 1 overall prospect when he came out but didn't have McFadden that far behind him as a prospect. I've said since I started watching McFadden highlights and probably 4 of his games in his last year at Arkansas that he isn't thick enough, I thought that if he could add to his frame he could be the exact same player as AD is.

I've given McFadden a pass because hes on the Raiders and teams know that all they have to do is shut down the running game and throw an 8 man front in there every single play and play the run first. Oakland actually has a really good rushing system that they use, but the passing game is so awful that it isn't working anymore. Anyone remember when they were pumping out great yardage from their running game for the two previous years under Lane and Art Shell? They actually had a potent rushing attack and you all saw it in the season opener this year against San Diego for the first quarter of the game when they literally ran it every single play because the Bolts weren't stacking the box on them. Add to that minor injuries and teams acknowledging the fact that the Raiders offense literally is just running the ball at this point. I remember last year the Bills had 8 in the box against the Raiders every play of the game and played with both safetys closer to the play than any other game of the season (why Higgins turned a slant into like a 60 yard score :( )

I'll give McFadden a pass until the Raiders have something that resembles a passing attack better than non-existent or he is on another team.
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Old 10-29-2009, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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McFadden last year was hurt all year. He had a turf toe and didnt get healthy until the offseason.
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Old 10-29-2009, 06:22 PM    (permalink
Vox Populi
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i'm also curious how people reconcile justin fargas with the dmc-product-of-his-situation argument (seriously, not trying to make a back-handed point or catch anyone).

dude ran for 1000 yards with 4.5ypc the year before mcfadden came in, with an also not stellar (though granted, much better than current) passing attack. the following season, iirc, he replaced mcfadden in the lineup towards the end of the season. i don't recall mcfadden being hurt (he logged 13 games that year).

so, why was fargas able to run fairly effectively 3 years ago? why was dmc only getting (in say, week 17) all of one total carry in some games? he blasted KC, then progressively got the ball less and less every week (more or less) thereafter.
He got hurt in that KC game (turf toe I think? something with his foot iirc), and its been said in this thread that Fargas averages more because he is a more decisive runner. Fargas hits the hole at full speed (which is why I loved him as a runner when they started giving him carries, but also ends up with him also getting injured usually unfortunately...) while McFadden will try to run around everyone to the outside. Call it indecisive or say he wants to break a long one every play rather than taking the shorter gain, idk. I don't watch that much Raider football unless I'm surfing between games, not that I want to watch them much anyways...

Thats my take on it at least.
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Old 10-29-2009, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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It's amazing how your epic homerism is turning out to be spot on.
I know, I tend to win at things.

I remember getting rep raped for having Rice as 1a and J-stew 1b in my RB rankings. sometimes, just sometimes, scotty knows what he's talking about
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:00 PM    (permalink
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I know, I tend to win at things.

I remember getting rep raped for having Rice as 1a and J-stew 1b in my RB rankings. sometimes, just sometimes, scotty knows what he's talking about
Ray Rice!!! I wish we had him back.
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