New York Jets Discussion - Page 237

Hurricanes25 · 12-09-2009, 06:04 PM

I don't think Clemens will have a problem. He's getting a full week of practice with the starters and Rex and Schotty will actually let him play this week unlike last week when they told him to go out and just don't lose the game. Plus, this is Tampa and as Crickett pointed out it will be our rushing attack against ther run defense. The Jets should not have a problem running the ball. And Clemens knows this is pretty much an audition for next year with hopes of starting for somebody else.

josh07039 · 12-10-2009, 11:47 AM

If you are looking ahead to the future or looking for a playoff berth, having Clemens play against the Bucs isn't the worst thing in the world. As you guys have said, the Bucs are terrible against the run. Whether it was Sanchez or Clemens, it is clear that the coaches wouldn't have any confidence in the teams ability to throw the ball, so either way it would have been all about the run. If Clemens can play and look decent, he may be able to get his trade value up.

TimD · 12-13-2009, 01:26 AM

whats going on with Kerry Rhodes? i used to really like him... i have his jersey. i wouldnt be surprised to see him moved this year.

Hurricanes25 · 12-13-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimDris

whats going on with Kerry Rhodes? i used to really like him... i have his jersey. i wouldnt be surprised to see him moved this year.

According to his twitter, it sounds like he doesn't want to be here. It would be a shame to because if he ever plays up to his potential, he can be a pro bowler.

derza222 · 12-13-2009, 12:32 PM

I think Ryan really buys into having unity as a team and Rhodes just doesn't fit into that with the way he's been acting recently. Definitely agree that he might be gone this offseason...I just hope that if they decide to dump him he's traded and we can get something in return instead of having him cut outright. Bummer because I was a big fan of his and have his jersey as well...actually the only current Jet I've got.

Wonder if that would open up FS as another need or if Smith would continue to start. There are enough positions that need a look this coming draft. Would make Taylor Mays slipping or Earl Thomas coming out a lot more interesting though...

msolimani · 12-13-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derza222

I think Ryan really buys into having unity as a team and Rhodes just doesn't fit into that with the way he's been acting recently. Definitely agree that he might be gone this offseason...I just hope that if they decide to dump him he's traded and we can get something in return instead of having him cut outright.

I agree, its a complete surprise to me because I always thought of Rhodes as a team type of guy but from what I've been reading lately he's been a big baby. I think once he got paid he started to focus a little less on the game and a little more on off the field activities. I too have his jersey and would like to see this get worked out but its not looking promising.

BroadwayJoe10 · 12-14-2009, 12:06 AM

Kerry "Hollywood" Rhodes is all about him and that showed as soon as he got his big contract.

He is just one of those players who takes it to heart what his fans say. He has been quoted on twitter saying that "NY is a great place to live and an OK place to play."

I really cannot stand the guy. He was bitching a few weeks ago about how if the Jets don't like him pursuing an acting/modeling career than they should help pay his bills etc. (i'm paraphrasing) Last time I checked, he signed a 33 million dollar paycheck, with 20 million guaranteed. What the hell kinds of bills can't that pay??

This is the #1 reason that Revis and him are no buddy buddy. Revis takes football seriously, whereas Hollywood is a joker.

That having been said, I wouldn't mind seeing him moved for a solid draft pick. The one thing about Rex' scheme, is that he is able to maximize the potential out of anyone who wants to play football. Ie. Devito, Douglas, Green and Pouha. Ever since Big Jenks went down, our defense hasn't really skipped a beat. I'd even argue that it's gotten stronger. I see no reason Eric Smith or a draftee couldn't fill Kerry's shoes. It's a shame to, because he has the ability to be playing in hawaii...err miami is it now??

gsorace · 12-14-2009, 09:11 AM

Clemens is going to be a beast in the UFL next year.

Hurricanes25 · 12-14-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsorace

Clemens is going to be a beast in the UFL next year.

If Bollinger can win a MVP in the UFL, Clemens could make it into the UFL Hall of Fame.

But seriously, Clemens was not good at all yesterday but I think a large part of it was due to rust. On some of the throws he was missing by a lot and I know he ain't that bad. Sanchez should be ready to go so to all of the Clemens haters, don't worry.

And on the Rhodes situation, he is still one of my favorute players but he needs a serious attitude adjustment. On all 3 of picks this year, he walks around afterwards with some sort of swagger. Come on now, he is playing like ****. If we replace him, I think we need to draft somebody. Smith is more of an in the box saftey and I dont think he has made much plays in the defensive backfield.

bigbluedefense · 12-14-2009, 12:06 PM

Clemens sucks so bad. It was painful watching him play.

I love Rex's schemes. Its almost like you don't even need pass rushers. He manufactures a pass rush on his own.

Me and my brother were talking about this earlier, and i wanna ask you guys this question:

What do the Jets address in the draft? I can't think of any "pressing" need right now on the team.

Is it BPA? The team is aging, and can use some youth in several positions, but there is no singular position that screams upgrade. They Jets are pretty much a complete team.

They just have to play like it now. But on paper, theyre complete.

I think if you keep Edwards, WR is set. Youre set at TE. Oline is fine for the immediate future, you can use some youth to develop, but you don't need an immediate starter.

Qb and RB is fine.

Defensively, you can use a pass rusher, but the way Rex draws up the blitz, it doesn't really matter. Dline is a need on paper, but I think your line is underrated, it performs very well despite any name talent.

ILB is set.

CB is fine, although it wouldn't be a bad idea to grab a CB. Safety is fine if Rhodes gets his act together.

So whats it gonna be? I can't figure it out right now.

josh07039 · 12-14-2009, 12:26 PM

A couple things:
1.Bollinger did a lot more with much less than Clemens had to work with. I firmly believe that Bollinger is a much better quarterback than Clemens. Obviously its not huge praise, but true nonetheless.

2.I think one of the big reasons the defense has been arguably doing better since Jenkins went down is because of Lito Sheppard returning. The team is getting more sacks because they can allow be more aggressive since they have someone across from Revis that is decent.

3. I don't really want to give up on Kerry just yet. He has so much talent and if he is motivated can be one of the best in the league. With what I have read and heard about him, his attitude has been pretty crappy. Despite his attitude, I would only get rid of him if we can get something in return.

4. For the draft, the team needs to look for depth/BPA. There aren't any glaring needs in terms of starters, but there are several positions with little depth or aging starters with no obvious successor. If the team is able to keep Braylon for a reasonable salary(if we actually want him), there really is no glaring need.

5. I was watching the Redskins game and it hurts me to think that Orakpo was compared to Gholston. I hate Vernon Gholston so much.

Hurricanes25 · 12-14-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Clemens sucks so bad. It was painful watching him play.

I love Rex's schemes. Its almost like you don't even need pass rushers. He manufactures a pass rush on his own.

Me and my brother were talking about this earlier, and i wanna ask you guys this question:

What do the Jets address in the draft? I can't think of any "pressing" need right now on the team.

Is it BPA? The team is aging, and can use some youth in several positions, but there is no singular position that screams upgrade. They Jets are pretty much a complete team.

They just have to play like it now. But on paper, theyre complete.

I think if you keep Edwards, WR is set. Youre set at TE. Oline is fine for the immediate future, you can use some youth to develop, but you don't need an immediate starter.

Qb and RB is fine.

Defensively, you can use a pass rusher, but the way Rex draws up the blitz, it doesn't really matter. Dline is a need on paper, but I think your line is underrated, it performs very well despite any name talent.

ILB is set.

CB is fine, although it wouldn't be a bad idea to grab a CB. Safety is fine if Rhodes gets his act together.

So whats it gonna be? I can't figure it out right now.

We don't need any "major" upgrades but there are a few positions that can use some upgrading. Right now I think our biggest need is OLB. Thomas hasn't been doing anything recently and he does not get any presseure on the QB.

I think Edwards comes back so no need for a WR.

I was pretty dissapointed with Sheppard's play earlier in the season but he has really turned it around the last few weeks. If we let him go, CB will be a first round need.

Damien Woody has been the weakest link of what has been a strong O-line. He is slowing down so I think RT is a need.

I thnk DE is a big need. Douglass hasn't done much so an upgrade can be made there.

Overall, we are pretty much set. Our biggest problem is depth.

Crickett · 12-14-2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I love Rex's schemes. Its almost like you don't even need pass rushers. He manufactures a pass rush on his own.

Me and my brother were talking about this earlier, and i wanna ask you guys this question:

What do the Jets address in the draft? I can't think of any "pressing" need right now on the team.

Is it BPA? The team is aging, and can use some youth in several positions, but there is no singular position that screams upgrade. They Jets are pretty much a complete team.

They just have to play like it now. But on paper, theyre complete.

I think if you keep Edwards, WR is set. Youre set at TE. Oline is fine for the immediate future, you can use some youth to develop, but you don't need an immediate starter.

Qb and RB is fine.

Defensively, you can use a pass rusher, but the way Rex draws up the blitz, it doesn't really matter. Dline is a need on paper, but I think your line is underrated, it performs very well despite any name talent.

ILB is set.

CB is fine, although it wouldn't be a bad idea to grab a CB. Safety is fine if Rhodes gets his act together.

So whats it gonna be? I can't figure it out right now.

The Jets starting defensive line is entirely 30 and above while Rex's scheme does generate a pass rush all on its own...... it would be nice to have two outside linebackers who could help that out. Bryan Thomas was the worst draft pick the Jets have made since I have been a Jets fan. Yes, worse than Robertson and worse than Gholston. And Gholston has been invisible since he was drafted hence the nickname Ghost. To put it in perspective, Vernon Gholston was a player drafted for his pass rushing ability. As an NFL player, he has zero career sacks.

Zero

career

sacks.

While the Jets defense has still done well, they're not the same unit they were while Jenkins was in there. He was a force of nature and thats something I think the Jets have been lacking since he went on IR. Thats why my personal preference is Terrence Cody. I see Cody as someone who can spell Kris Jenkins, eventually replace Kris Jenkins and at least some of the time spell Marques Douglas or Shaun Eliis and play sort of a Haloti Ngata role in the Jets defense.

Unfortunately, when I have a preference for a Jets draft pick, they tend not draft 'em. :(

So I figure they'll go

Safety is they dump Kerry Rhodes.

Wide receiver if they don't retain Braylon Edwards.

Cornerback if they release Lito Sheppard and DON'T resign him like the Saints did with Jonathan Vilma. I'm hoping they do re-sign him.

Otherwise 3-4 DE, 3-4 OLB or right tackle as Damien Woody will be 33 next year.

msolimani · 12-14-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crickett

Bryan Thomas was the worst draft pick the Jets have made since I have been a Jets fan.

That's crazy talk man. Thomas has been a little disappointing at times, but he's still a solid player who contributes to the team. If you would've told me before the 2002 draft that whoever we picked would be a constant starter and put up solid numbers for us in the next 8 years I would take it. Especially when so many of our picks this decade are helping other teams right now.

I'll agree that he hasn't been stellar and maybe he's a little overpaid right now, but he has given this team many good seasons. He's not a flashy stat guy but he's a great team guy and will play hard until the whistle blows.

With names out there like Santana Moss, Dewayne Robertson, Victor Hobson, Mike Nugent, Justin Miller, Kellen Clemens, and the one and only Vernon Gholston, I can't see how Bryan Thomas even fits into this category.

Hurricanes25 · 12-14-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msolimani

With names out there like Santana Moss, Dewayne Robertson, Victor Hobson, Mike Nugent, Justin Miller, Kellen Clemens, and the one and only Vernon Gholston, I can't see how Bryan Thomas even fits into this category.

Are you really saying that Santana Moss was one of the worst picks we ever made? That's crazy.

msolimani · 12-14-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurricanes25

Are you really saying that Santana Moss was one of the worst picks we ever made? That's crazy.

No no no, I loved Santana. What I was trying to say was at least Thomas is still contributing to the team (even though it may be minimal contributions), while Santana only played for us for 4 years and was hurt for a decent amount of it.

Crickett · 12-14-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msolimani

That's crazy talk man. Thomas has been exactly what you expect when you draft someone late first round, a solid player who contributes to the team. If you would've told me before the 2002 draft that whoever we picked would be a constant starter and put up solid numbers for us in the next 8 years I would take it.

Well, the reason I call it the worst, is because afterwards Ed Reed & Lito Sheppard were drafted. But its not just that a pro bowl corner and a hall of fame safety were drafted right after the Jets selection. Its that the Jets NEEDED secondary help after losing Glenn and Coleman to the expansion draft. And also that the Jets had Ellis and Abraham who had been drafted a mere two years earlier in the first round.

To me, that sets him apart.

DeWayne Robertson was a bust, but at least the pick made sense.

Justin Miller was a bust, but at least the pick made sense after not sufficiently addressing cornerback after they lost Aaron Glenn and Marcus Coleman all the way back in 2002.

Vernon Gholston made sense because the Jets pass rush was so awful the year before.

Bryan Thomas just made no sense. To me, it was what we could later be referred to as "An Isiah Thomas move".

As for Thomas' numbers, well, to me solid numbers would be what Thomas did in 2006. Unfortunately, 2006 was by far his best year and he never really got close to that statistically again.

if you told me in 2002 that the Jets would draft a defensive end who managed 6+ sacks once in his career, I'd just go watch that draft blunder video again.

msolimani · 12-14-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crickett

Well, the reason I call it the worst, is because afterwards Ed Reed & Lito Sheppard were drafted. But its not just that a pro bowl corner and a hall of fame safety were drafted right after the Jets selection. Its that the Jets NEEDED secondary help after losing Glenn and Coleman to the expansion draft. And also that the Jets had Ellis and Abraham who had been drafted a mere two years earlier in the first round.

I agree with you there that we didn't need a DE at all that year, I bring that up all the time that we could've had Ed Reed. But you can do that for every draft with every team so I don't know if it's fair to single out Thomas in that one season. Its not like the top 32 players in each draft get picked accordingly.

Also, I acknowledged that Thomas wasn't a big stat guy. And as much as I hate to quote this douche bag Bilichick said today that "stats are for the losers" and I kind of agree with him. It's not like Thomas is Vernon Gholston out there who just looks lost and makes no impact what-so-ever.

Basically, I agree Thomas wasn't a great pick. But looking at where he was drafted and the fact that he's still on our team starting 8 years later he isn't the worst draft pick in recent memory. Im still awaiting #6 pick in the '07 draft Vernon Gholston's first sack....it should be exciting!!

Crickett · 12-14-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msolimani

But you can do that for every draft with every team so I don't know if it's fair to single out Thomas in that one season. Its not like the top 32 players in each draft get picked accordingly.

No, you can't. The Jets passed on players who turned out better to draft DeWayne Robertson, but they needed a defensive tackle and he was the top rated one. The Jets passed on players who turned out better for Vernon Gholston, but the Jets needed help in the pass rush and Gholston was a top 10 prospect based on his pass rushing skills and workout numbers.

Those picks at least made sense even if they didn't turn out well.

The Jets needed secondary help. And then they drafted Bryan Thomas.

For analogy purposes, I'll say this. Drafting Bryan Thomas in 2002 ahead of Ed Reed and Lito Sheppard would be like passing on a pro bowl defensive lineman for a middle linebacker next year. The Jets have Harris and Scott. Just like they had Abraham and Ellis.

msolimani · 12-14-2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crickett

No, you can't. The Jets passed on players who turned out better to draft DeWayne Robertson, but they needed a defensive tackle and he was the top rated one. The Jets passed on players who turned out better for Vernon Gholston, but the Jets needed help in the pass rush and Gholston was a top 10 prospect based on his pass rushing skills and workout numbers.

Those picks at least made sense even if they didn't turn out well.

I don't know how many times you want me to agree with you that we obviously should've taken Reed or Sheppard, but hindsight is always 20/20. You can get caught up on Thomas being the worst pick you can remember all you want, I just think your logic is a little off because basically what you're saying is it's ok to draft bad players as long as the intention is good and it fits a need.

Also, I get your main point with the analogy but it doesn't apply at all. Defense line is an area where depth is so important especially when Abraham had always been labeled as only a pass rusher and had durability problems. So I guess I can see wanting to draft someone to play the other half of the time Abraham wasn't on the field, and also to spell Ellis. Again, there was obviously better players out there but just like with Gholston and D-Rob they thought Thomas was the best value there (not saying it was our best pick, but it wasn't the worst).

Crickett · 12-14-2009, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msolimani

I just think your logic is a little off because basically what you're saying is it's ok to draft bad players as long as the intention is good and it fits a need.

Well, I'm not saying its ok to draft bad players as the intention is good and it fits a need. I'm just saying its worse when you draft bad players when it doesn't fit a need. And even worse when the guys who would have a fit a need all turn out great (or in the case of Reed, legendary).

I'll make a second point though. Unless you're drafting #31 or #32, drafting entirely for depth in the first round is not a good idea. I mean, I could see it if you have an aging starter that the pick would eventually replace in short order. Something like Steven Jackson and Marshall Faulk. But John Abraham and Shaun Ellis had been in the league for a whopping two years.

msolimani · 12-14-2009, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crickett

I'll make a second point though. Unless you're drafting #31 or #32, drafting entirely for depth in the first round is not a good idea. I mean, I could see it if you have an aging starter that the pick would eventually replace in short order. Something like Steven Jackson and Marshall Faulk. But John Abraham and Shaun Ellis had been in the league for a whopping two years.

Again don't agree with what they did, anyone in the NFL would take Reed over Thomas today but you have to remember it wasn't as clear back then as it is now. Thomas wasn't a draft pick that we are gonna go brag about or anything, but I think you're being a little dramatic when saying he's the worst pick. Our worst pick in recent memory does play DE/OLB and was a first round pick but it wasn't Bryan Thomas.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this topic. Go Jets!!!

bigbluedefense · 12-15-2009, 10:37 AM

Wow...i haven't been keeping up with Kerry Rhodes comments lately but wow...

What is up with this guy? What the hell is his problem?

AlexDown · 12-15-2009, 12:45 PM

See BroadwayJoe's post a little ways up on the page. Thats how I see it at least.

Also, I still am not sure what the future is with Thomas Jones or Leon Washington. RB is a position we may need to address in the draft, besides our aging front lines.

gsorace · 12-15-2009, 08:32 PM

Thomas Jones is having another pro bowl year, I don't think there is any way we let both him and Leon walk, RB is the position i'm the least worried about.

The Jets D needs a 5-tech in the worst way.