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Old 03-07-2010, 05:51 AM    (permalink
thule
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There's plenty of reasons to believe a rookie can have a more positive impact. Louis Delmas, Sean Smith, Jairus Byrd were all 2nd round safeties last year who burst on the scene. This year's safety class is talented too.

In fact, in some ways the top tier scare me more than the 2nd tier. Berry isn't a Top 3 prospect in most years. He's being highly overrated. Honestly, I don't think he separates himself that much from Delmas, Smith and Byrd. Also, Earl Thomas and Taylor Mays both have glaring weaknesses of their own.

The 2nd tier is where we may find more substance... I wouldn't be shocked at all if Reshad Jones, Chad Jones, and Nate Allen outshined their more highly touted peers.
Byrd played as a cover 2 safety....I don't think cover 2 safeties can really be judged against other teams. They almost always cover half the field and are never in man situations....Byrd in our scheme was as big of a concern if not more than Earl Thomas coming out...

I don't get all the 2nd tier love. I'm fine with Mays and Berry question marks...but Reshad was JAG in college...to be completely honest I didn't even know there was a Georgia safety in this class until the postseason started...that is how little I noticed the guy on the field. Atleast Berry and Mays and Thomas appeared on the camera....I can't get hyped up about a prospect from watching highlight videos....so maybe I'm missing the boat but I don't see anything from him.

Chad Jones...palease....this is the same guy that was suppose to blow up at the combine....hell he is a better baseball player then football and even voiced that baseball was his true love...a guy who can't even be in top shape for the combine that has a true love for another sport...no thanks.

Nate Allen is the only guy I see a legit arguement for....I'd also add Burnett to the discussion as they seem to be the clearcut 4-5 at this point. However I don't think either is available at our 2nd pick....and neither warrants 27. Allen had 2 premier NCAA pass rushers on his team yet still faded down the stretch? He didn't do anything to help/hurt his stock in the post season...I'm just not sold.

Burnett is the odd ball...yet him not going on the combine leaves some question marks at this point. He definitely has it on tape....so those numbers are pretty important for him...that said it's a pretty clear talent drop off from the top tier to the 2nd tier. That second tier looks like trash to me. I'd rather go into the season with Hamlin/Sensy/Ball/Hamlin/Watkins again...I don't see the increase in talent on the roster with those 2nd tier guys.
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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D has been down on Eric Berry for over a year...ever since the hype train started and he argued that Taylor Mays was a better safety. His views aren't going to change this late into the process. All you have to do to love this kid is listen to him talk. His physical attributes and on the field play speak for themselves. But an educated smart kid who has a good head on his shoulders...I see a Warrick Dunn type NFL contribution out of this kid...I love every single thing about him.
Why would you say that? I have changed my views. I don't sit here talking about how much Mays is better than Berry anymore.

I'm just being honest. Maybe Berry will have a great career, but it's hard for me to think he'll have a better rookie year than Delmas and Bryd. ...and if I can't think that, then hoping for a better career over the long term is also a reach.

...and honestly... Berry might not be a Top 3 pick this year. He's definitely not a Top 3 pick in most other years.

I'm not being down on the guy... but the hype on him is TOO much.
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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Byrd played as a cover 2 safety....I don't think cover 2 safeties can really be judged against other teams. They almost always cover half the field and are never in man situations....Byrd in our scheme was as big of a concern if not more than Earl Thomas coming out...

I don't get all the 2nd tier love. I'm fine with Mays and Berry question marks...but Reshad was JAG in college...to be completely honest I didn't even know there was a Georgia safety in this class until the postseason started...that is how little I noticed the guy on the field. Atleast Berry and Mays and Thomas appeared on the camera....I can't get hyped up about a prospect from watching highlight videos....so maybe I'm missing the boat but I don't see anything from him.

Chad Jones...palease....this is the same guy that was suppose to blow up at the combine....hell he is a better baseball player then football and even voiced that baseball was his true love...a guy who can't even be in top shape for the combine that has a true love for another sport...no thanks.

Nate Allen is the only guy I see a legit arguement for....I'd also add Burnett to the discussion as they seem to be the clearcut 4-5 at this point. However I don't think either is available at our 2nd pick....and neither warrants 27. Allen had 2 premier NCAA pass rushers on his team yet still faded down the stretch? He didn't do anything to help/hurt his stock in the post season...I'm just not sold.

Burnett is the odd ball...yet him not going on the combine leaves some question marks at this point. He definitely has it on tape....so those numbers are pretty important for him...that said it's a pretty clear talent drop off from the top tier to the 2nd tier. That second tier looks like trash to me. I'd rather go into the season with Hamlin/Sensy/Ball/Hamlin/Watkins again...I don't see the increase in talent on the roster with those 2nd tier guys.
The difference is basically this: hype.

That's all. Berry had the large benefit of being overly hyped up in the beginning of the year. Heisman they said. So everything he did well, got exemplified 100 times over. ...every mistake was candy coded, and every invisible game gets attributed to the excuse that teams didn't come at him. Another guy could do exactly the same thing, but it would go unnoticed. It doesn't surprise me at all that you think Reshad is a JAG and he didn't do anything to stick out. Maybe you think I'm sold of Reshad based off a few highlight plays. To me it isn't about his "youtube highlight plays" as much as it is seeing the way he moves, thinks, reacts, hits and covers. I could watch a clip of 2 different guys coming away with INTs, but could come away with 2 totally different opinions. It's why I don't want to put Morgan Burnett in my 2nd tier. He has fantastic "youtube highlights"... but imo, he doesn't move well. He'll end up being more of that JAG type, imo. He doesn't have that x factor that makes him nasty like Resahd.

Chad Jones is near the same size as Taylor Mays, but it never got advertised, so that news might even shock people. Difference is Mays is ripped like a mother and had been locking guys out of the endzone up until this year. So the guy likes baseball and that's a bad thing? Why? If you want to question his passion for the game, then I think you'd be sorely mistaken. Jones oozes athleticism in his own right, and some scouts had him rising up the first round before our 27th pick as of late. This is the time of year when scouts put aside hype and start putting out their legit grades. That's why.

Nate Allen is in the same boat as Earl Thomas imo. Both self made this year off a stream of big plays. They emerged from the unknown into the known. To say Allen cooled off is a fair statement, but only because the guy was RED HOT. Teams learned to stay away from his direction as the season progressed. Read anything about him at the Senior Bowl and the guy outplayed a lot of corners and looked more fluid than them in drills. If we strictly want a man cover Safety, then Allen is a DEFINITE guy we want to target. The guy reminds me of Darren Sharper. He uses his head on the field. Intelligent player.

All 3 guys have weaknesses of their own, but is it that much of a difference? I would never pay the price of a Top 3 pick for Berry with how deep this safety class is. Put me in the boat that says these 2nd tier safeties could be equally good or better than their 1st tier counterparts in the NFL.
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Old 03-07-2010, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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Ok, it's officially time to be excited about this being a realistic possibility:


Quote:
After assigning him just a first-round tender, the Ravens are believed to be willing to move restricted free agent LT Jared Gaither.
Gaither would've gotten the first- and third-round tender if the Ravens were truly intent on keeping him. The Ravens want to move Michael Oher to left tackle. The Baltimore Sun suggests four possible destinations for Gaither: San Francisco, Indianapolis, Dallas, and Seattle. Teams targeting Gaither could probably work out a deal for less than the first-round pick.
Source: Baltimore Sun


What do you guys think? Gaither at LT, Free at RT? Gaither is exactly the type of lineman we love in Dallas, young, and definately a franchise LT. Is he worth 27 to you? Also key to note he could be had for a 2nd and something else.


I want it done, consider me sold, I'm on board :D


edit:


It's also been reported we have already contacted them regarding him:


Quote:
According to NFL Network and ESPN last night, the 49ers, Cowboys and Seahawks and contacted the Ravens with regards to Jared Gaither.
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Old 03-07-2010, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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There's plenty of reasons to believe a rookie can have a more positive impact. Louis Delmas, Sean Smith, Jairus Byrd were all 2nd round safeties last year who burst on the scene. This year's safety class is talented too.

In fact, in some ways the top tier scare me more than the 2nd tier. Berry isn't a Top 3 prospect in most years. He's being highly overrated. Honestly, I don't think he separates himself that much from Delmas, Smith and Byrd. Also, Earl Thomas and Taylor Mays both have glaring weaknesses of their own.

The 2nd tier is where we may find more substance... I wouldn't be shocked at all if Reshad Jones, Chad Jones, and Nate Allen outshined their more highly touted peers.
There are reasons to think that a rookie can have a more positive impact than Sensy, but there still is a large lack of a guarantee. Those guys you listed had good rookie years, but that's not always a certain thing. You also have to remember who is on the Cowboys' defense. You've got two pretty good corners, and an experienced safety. The rookie is going to get picked on far more than Jenkins, Newman, and Hamlin or Sensy. I want a safety picked high, but there needs to be some vet insurance in case he isn't ready yet. I think Sensy is pretty valuable in that regard, because he's a good starter that could help ease the transition if they aren't going to cut Hamlin.
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Old 03-07-2010, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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Ok, it's officially time to be excited about this being a realistic possibility:






What do you guys think? Gaither at LT, Free at RT? Gaither is exactly the type of lineman we love in Dallas, young, and definately a franchise LT. Is he worth 27 to you? Also key to note he could be had for a 2nd and something else.


I want it done, consider me sold, I'm on board :D


edit:


It's also been reported we have already contacted them regarding him:
I like this idea a lot better than the idea of trading or signing for A. Bethea which has also been floating around. I guess with any restricted signing we have to consider then what linemen might be available if we picked in the late 1st. That list might include Iupati, Campbell, Pouncey, and Williams. Predicting their potential for development and Gaither's current skill set makes this a little complex. Gaither is a solid pass blocker and could hold down the left side adequately for another 6-8 years, but one of those four might reach a higher ceiling at their position down the road. All in all, signing Gaither makes a lot of sense especially if we can somehow still hold onto our first.

By the way, the Ravens are looking for a Defensive End aren't they? If by trade we can get him for say Marcus Spears and maybe a third or fourth rounder or something of that nature, hell I'd definately be on board too.

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Old 03-07-2010, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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Good find LL. I'm all for Gaither.
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:23 AM    (permalink
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Can someone explain what the go is with something like that. Say this situation where three teams are willing to trade there first to sign the player. Does the offering team just take the highest draft pick or does the player get any say in the decision for trade?
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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Can someone explain what the go is with something like that. Say this situation where three teams are willing to trade there first to sign the player. Does the offering team just take the highest draft pick or does the player get any say in the decision for trade?
Alright i'm going to try my hand on this and hopefully not muck it up. From my understanding of how NFL.com explains restricted free agency the player can negotiate with teams for a contract as any other free agent can. the player has the right to accept any offer of their choosing, but the catch is that the owning team first has a chance to match that offer. In this case I believe it would just come down to the team that makes Gaither the best offer...(Hopefully Jerry would make Gaither an offer he couldn't refuse, but that Final 8 crap might restrict matters.)

Now my understanding is kind of hazy in the situation where the player accepts an offer and during the window of time (a week i think) when the owning team can match the offer they instead try to quickly trade him to another team that also wants him and could offer more than what they would get for compensation from the team who is making the offer for the RFA. Theoretically it seems like the owning team could pull off a trade during this time period since they still own the rights to the player.

Of course if nobody offers him a contract that he accepts, it would be dependent on who makes the best trade offer with the team...
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:23 PM    (permalink
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Alright i'm going to try my hand on this and hopefully not muck it up. From my understanding of how NFL.com explains restricted free agency the player can negotiate with teams for a contract as any other free agent can. the player has the right to accept any offer of their choosing, but the catch is that the owning team first has a chance to match that offer. In this case I believe it would just come down to the team that makes Gaither the best offer...(Hopefully Jerry would make Gaither an offer he couldn't refuse, but that Final 8 crap might restrict matters.)

Now my understanding is kind of hazy in the situation where the player accepts an offer and during the window of time (a week i think) when the owning team can match the offer they instead try to quickly trade him to another team that also wants him and could offer more than what they would get for compensation from the team who is making the offer for the RFA. Theoretically it seems like the owning team could pull off a trade during this time period since they still own the rights to the player.

Of course if nobody offers him a contract that he accepts, it would be dependent on who makes the best trade offer with the team...
If the Cowboys have contacted the Ravens about Gaither, it's likely that the way they'd acquire him would be by trading for his rights with the Ravens, rather than signing him to an offer sheet.

If, as you suggest, it comes down to offer sheets, then the pick that the Ravens acquire obviously would depend on the team whose offer sheet Gaither signs.

I believe, according to recent history, that directly trading for Gaither's rights would be much more likely, as we've seen very few teams give up high round picks in offer sheet-type deals. There have been some examples of teams signing players to an offer sheet for whom the compensation is a lower round pick, but for players who have been tendered in the top 3 tiers (that is, usually non-draft level tenders), trades have been the rule. The obvious example is Wes Welker to the Patriots a couple of years back where the Dolphins tendered Welker at the 2nd round level, and the Patriots, rather than signing Welker to an offer sheet and then sending the 2nd round pick to the Dolphins, instead traded with the Phins to acquire Welker's rights. In that case they thought Welker valuable enough to even send along a 7th round pick to facilitate things.

Edit: Just for clarification, the Final 8 rule does not apply here, because we're talking about Restricted Free Agents, and the rule only applies to unrestricted free agents. If Gaither had not been tendered by the Ravens, he would become unrestricted, and then the Final 8 rule would come into play.
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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If the Cowboys have contacted the Ravens about Gaither, it's likely that the way they'd acquire him would be by trading for his rights with the Ravens, rather than signing him to an offer sheet.

If, as you suggest, it comes down to offer sheets, then the pick that the Ravens acquire obviously would depend on the team whose offer sheet Gaither signs.

I believe, according to recent history, that directly trading for Gaither's rights would be much more likely, as we've seen very few teams give up high round picks in offer sheet-type deals. There have been some examples of teams signing players to an offer sheet for whom the compensation is a lower round pick, but for players who have been tendered in the top 3 tiers (that is, usually non-draft level tenders), trades have been the rule. The obvious example is Wes Welker to the Patriots a couple of years back where the Dolphins tendered Welker at the 2nd round level, and the Patriots, rather than signing Welker to an offer sheet and then sending the 2nd round pick to the Dolphins, instead traded with the Phins to acquire Welker's rights. In that case they thought Welker valuable enough to even send along a 7th round pick to facilitate things.

Edit: Just for clarification, the Final 8 rule does not apply here, because we're talking about Restricted Free Agents, and the rule only applies to unrestricted free agents. If Gaither had not been tendered by the Ravens, he would become unrestricted, and then the Final 8 rule would come into play.
Point taken. Forgot that the final 8 applied only to unrestricted. But I could see a team like the 49ers or Cowboys sending a first round pick. Considering that he is a solid young left tackle and the inherent risks you take with drafting someone like Trent Williams, Bruce Campbell, or an Anthony Davis in the first round, I think he would be well worth it.

But I'm also starting to think that if Dallas can't get a favorable trade for Gaither, they might end up just starting Free at left tackle this year and releasing Adams. Sounds like a risky move to me, but Jerry didn't sound too certain about Adams future with the team when asked at the combine. Adams would be too costly as a backup and I'm sure Jerry wants to see what he has with Free at left tackle if given more reps.
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Old 03-09-2010, 05:26 AM    (permalink
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I think if you're looking at making a Super Bowl run, which no doubt, Jerry is--the big game is in his stadium after all and his team was certainly hitting its stride at the end of the season--then you cannot go into the season with such tremendous uncertainty at one of the three most important positions in the game. Flozell might be getting old, and he can be mistake prone, but he is, according to many analysts' views, an above-average starting left tackle in this league. I have to think that Jerry will not want to go into the season with a risk like Free at a crucial position like left tackle, even though he played so well on the right side. As we all know, right and left tackle are COMPLETELY different positions, and it's very hard to project a move from one side to the other.

I'll even admit that I had a hope, in the back of my mind, that Flozell might be injured in the Vikings game because I thought Free might be a better matchup against Jared Allen. We all saw how wrong I was. To go into a season with such uncertainty at a premium position is simply ridiculous if you want to make a Super Bowl run. At safety, it's ok. At left tackle, it's not.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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I agree. I don't want Adams to be released this year either unless Jones has got a pretty certain backup option and to me Free is an uncertainty there. I just point this out as a possibility because Jones sounded pretty concerned whether Adams would be able to play at the same level as he did in 2009.

In unrelated news, it seems that Martellus Bennett is making the appropiate comments to position himself for a trade with the draft approaching. Wonder if Jones will ship him out if someone offers a shiny second rounder. Doubt it, but I think we could find some decent blocking tight ends later in the draft anyhow and John Phillips seems to be catching on.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:53 AM    (permalink
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If Jerry drafts a STUD LT like Bryan Bulaga or Russell Okung in the draft this year, though, I think the Cowboys can go into 2010 pretty confident that he'll contribute, and can *probably* cut Flo without hesitating too much.

If they go OT in the 2nd or 3rd round, however, you're right - you won't be able to count on that guy to be a starter from the get-go.
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Old 03-09-2010, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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Okung and Bulaga are way out of Dallas' range. As are Davis and Williams.

We're looking more at Bruce Campbell, Mike Iupati (LT potential), or a Charles Brown if we go tackle in the 1st.

And even if you draft any of those guys...none would be handed the reigns right away. Campbell is one of my favorites, but needs a lot of work, Iupati has no business playing LT right out of the gates, and Brown is a bit of a project as well.

Unless we get Gaither, I envision Flo being back for this upcoming year. And I'm just fine with that. He actually had a good season, despite what a lot of people will tell you. We probably should have never started Colombo in the playoffs. Yeah, he did well in the Eagles game but, he looked slow/injured against the Vikes still. While Flo didnt play great when he was out there either, Colombo was the one getting embarrassed.
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Old 03-09-2010, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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Why does everyone think Free got manhandled vs Allen? Other then the very first play, I thought he did a very good job vs him especially considering he's one of the best DE's and Free's first start at LT. He didn't get beat since that first play, and Allen was mostly neutralized unless the play ran right into him.


Charles Brown would be a nice pick, Bruce Campbell sucked on film and everyone loves him because he continued the Maryland trend and was a workout warrior. I'd be fine with him, but he would need to sit at minimum a year before throwing him out there, he needs ALOT of coaching.


Free is an amazing LT, but he showed me he can play LT very well also, he won't be an Orlando Pace top 5 LT over there but he can be a very good starter so unless we see someone topping that, give him the reigns. The guy is a natural LT and played there his whole life, RT is what's new to him.


RT is also easier to find and draft and Columbo has more years left then Flozell does.
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Old 03-09-2010, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Free is an amazing LT? Not sure if that was a typo...but, first of all he has no career starts at LT. And secondly, he's barely played LT in the NFL. We dont know what we have there yet. He could certainly play RT, I like him but, I'm not sold on the guy at LT. Dallas wants to win right now and Flo may give them the best chance to win, right now. Perhaps they still like Free as the future at LT but, I dont think he'll be getting those reigns this year at all.
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Old 03-09-2010, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
Okung and Bulaga are way out of Dallas' range. As are Davis and Williams.

We're looking more at Bruce Campbell, Mike Iupati (LT potential), or a Charles Brown if we go tackle in the 1st.

And even if you draft any of those guys...none would be handed the reigns right away. Campbell is one of my favorites, but needs a lot of work, Iupati has no business playing LT right out of the gates, and Brown is a bit of a project as well.

Unless we get Gaither, I envision Flo being back for this upcoming year. And I'm just fine with that. He actually had a good season, despite what a lot of people will tell you. We probably should have never started Colombo in the playoffs. Yeah, he did well in the Eagles game but, he looked slow/injured against the Vikes still. While Flo didnt play great when he was out there either, Colombo was the one getting embarrassed.
I agree with this right here. Flo could easily come back and I wouldn't mind it. However, I'd like at some point to see Free get a chance at LT.

Columbo was totally at fault against Minny. I too agree that he should've stayed on the bench. It was a tough situation for the coaches to deal with, but they should've made the right choice for the team... and that was to keep Free in at RT.
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Old 03-09-2010, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Free is an amazing LT? Not sure if that was a typo...but, first of all he has no career starts at LT. And secondly, he's barely played LT in the NFL. We dont know what we have there yet. He could certainly play RT, I like him but, I'm not sold on the guy at LT. Dallas wants to win right now and Flo may give them the best chance to win, right now. Perhaps they still like Free as the future at LT but, I dont think he'll be getting those reigns this year at all.
Yea it was a mistake, I meant RT. I fully agree with that as far as him as a RT. I still stand by him being a natural LT and he had to get used to playing RT since he had been at LT so long prior.
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Old 03-10-2010, 05:31 AM    (permalink
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I just wanted to point out that in the same "Around the Web" that LL mentioned earlier in his reference to Gaither's potential availability, that a Buffalo News report is also quoted as stating that Donte Whitner may be available with the Bills resigning two other safeties who can adequately play strong safety while Jairus Byrd holds down the free safety spot. Whitner is definitely a guy who I'd be interested, and I'm sure that D and Thule will remember the rather large man crush I had on him when he came out (what was it, 3, 4, years ago? Wow. Time flies).
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Old 03-10-2010, 08:20 AM    (permalink
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I just wanted to point out that in the same "Around the Web" that LL mentioned earlier in his reference to Gaither's potential availability, that a Buffalo News report is also quoted as stating that Donte Whitner may be available with the Bills resigning two other safeties who can adequately play strong safety while Jairus Byrd holds down the free safety spot. Whitner is definitely a guy who I'd be interested, and I'm sure that D and Thule will remember the rather large man crush I had on him when he came out (what was it, 3, 4, years ago? Wow. Time flies).
I guess if Whitner is available for a sixth rounder or something i wouldn't mind, but he hasn't really turned into a playmaker/ballhawk type for the Bills and that's one of the biggest complaints on Hamlin (along with his questionable tackling). Whitner's also has had various injury issues over the last couple of years or so. I think the rumor for the Colts Antoine Bethea interests me more, but only in a trade scenario not as a RFA.
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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this is the least active Jerry's been in FA in quite some time. we're well into week 3 and not even a wisper of activity... If we don't make a move for O.J. (only a 3rd round compensation) we better land Mays or Thomas on draft day. Ken Hamlin is so bad.
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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OJ has no compensation actually. And he is set to become a FA if he doesn't sign a deal by May 5th I believe is the day. Something to watch for.
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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There is nothing out there except kickers for us. O.J. Probably isnt going anywhere and other than that, the unrestricted market is pretty terrible.
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:09 AM    (permalink
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How about this one

I believe we will sit tight on Atogwe and see how the draft shakes out. If we dont get ET round 1 or Nate Allen round 2 then we go hard after Atogwe.

People become furious/confused w/ projected trades so Ill just bypass that. Lets just say AD is worth a trade up at a few spots.

1. Anthony Davis- Rutgers - The Mother ****ing ****
Height: 6-5 | Weight: 323 | 40-Time: 5.40



Take your pick year one and he will fill that role. And by this time next year, when he will be 21, well have our LT for years




2. Akwasi Owusu-Ansah - CB/FS/KR
Height: 6-0 | Weight: 207 | 40-Time: 4.47



We know he can return kicks, but there tons of potential here as a CB or FS. If we dont sign Atogwe you can cut Ken Hamlin move Ball over to FS and play AOA at CB.




3. JD Walton - C
Height: 6-2⅝ | Weight: 300 | 40-Time: 5.15


How about a smart linemen for a change? Might not be a mauler but is a future starter and perhaps team leader.


4. Lets just say I lose this in some trade up. No details b/c it makes peoples heads explode




6. Antonio Brown - WR/RS
Height: 5-10⅛ | Weight: 186 | 40-Time: 4.54


More quick than fast. Another returner w/ some upside at slot. Hes adding weight to his frame w/o losing speed.




7. Vince Oghobase- DL
Height: 6-5 | Weight: 303 | 40-Time: 5.49

Some potential here if he gets his head out of his ***
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