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Old 03-25-2010, 11:44 PM    (permalink
bored of education
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If I call this one of those another cry for help or being a money grubbing ***** scenarios I will not be subject to the wrath of njx
I stand by what I said. But this is sure getting fishy on many levels.
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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that's the exact ****ing implication of statements like that. 'well she was drunk, so she deserved it' or 'she was a **** anyways'. it's the same **** that was echoed at the beginning of this thread, and it's the same **** that gets said in just about every rape case about the girl (witness every idiotic post in this thread suggesting she was golddigging, when there was absolutely no civil case).

so again, your comment was completely irrelevant in the best case, and completely ****ing disgusting in the worst. i'm tending to believe both right now.
If I wanted to say 'the ***** had it coming for her' or that "she deserved it", I would have. I was just stating what I read which could have been a good piece of evidence. She got caught with a fake ID and had a BAC limit of something over the legal limit for a minor. Awesome, didn't mean it the way you took it. Also, is there one possible debate that you get into where you don't have a million astriks in them?

I never said she was golddigging either. Other people have, but I haven't. I waited till I saw evidence that leaked out and I voiced my opinion on whatever I posted or that I saw. The more and more that comes out shows that he MIGHT get off the hook. Did he do something? He might have, but I in no way did say she "deserved it".
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:51 PM    (permalink
bored of education
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and i will stand by what I said because I have a few personal experiences similar to this case and I have never been sexual assualted by big ben
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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You would like it anyway, so it wouldn't count.
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:54 PM    (permalink
bored of education
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You would like it anyway, so it wouldn't count.
na im actually not being a funny guy. i have personal experiences with this type of stuff whether myself or people i know, so I has the right to assume whatever the **** i want.
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 03-26-2010, 01:59 AM    (permalink
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why would the the police or whoever is investigating this case not have wanted the video evidence... obviously im not talking about in the bathroom because that isnt on video... but anyone who has ever worked in a video surveillanced(spelling?) environment(yes ive had a couple of those jobs), knows that unless upon request the video is not saved after 7 days and is erased to create more space by the system itself so it can record the next 7 days...
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Old 03-26-2010, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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almost all of them that don't involve making excuses for an alleged sexual assault. her BAC and fake ID have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CASE and anyone who suggests they do is trying to say that the girl was drunk, and thus it either didn't happen or it's ok. i don't really care what you 'would've done', you put that crap out there as if it were meaningful, you're now responsible for it's meaning. if you don't like it, you shouldn't post utter garbage.



nor did i accuse you of such. it's called 'using an example'.



but she was drunk! and had a fake id! and those are apparently highly relevant facts!

again, the only possible motivation behind posting that crap is to try to damage the girl's reputation, and thus, somehow, her case. none of it has any remote, vague relevance to whether or not your favorite-ist player ever assaulted her.

don't like the implication that you're blaming girls for getting assaulted? stop bloody doing it.
I totally get what you're saying. But with a BAC that high, you can bet your ass that investigators and Roethlisberger's attorney's are going to question her cognitive function and her ability to analyze the situation at that time. This is a criminal case, and if they decide to indict him it will be up to the state to prove without reasonable doubt that Roethlisberger sexually assaulted this girl.

I have no interest in the outcome of this case either way. I work in the legal field and have been trying to look at it solely as a legal analyst.
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Old 03-26-2010, 10:41 AM    (permalink
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Can we please atleast get the name of this thread changed, Ben has not been accused of rape.
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Old 03-26-2010, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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which has absolutely nothing to do with anything. but it's a really cute way to say 'she had it coming'. ****ing disgusting.
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that's the exact ****ing implication of statements like that. 'well she was drunk, so she deserved it' or 'she was a **** anyways'. it's the same **** that was echoed at the beginning of this thread, and it's the same **** that gets said in just about every rape case about the girl (witness every idiotic post in this thread suggesting she was golddigging, when there was absolutely no civil case).

so again, your comment was completely irrelevant in the best case, and completely ****ing disgusting in the worst. i'm tending to believe both right now.
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of course they are. and it's still pathetic and disgusting that it's a remotely viable defense strategy. the fact that idiots on a jury are ok with blaming the victim is a direct result of society at large being ok with it.

regardless, it seems reasonable doubt went out the window the minute the bar tampered with the evidence. i sincerely hope that everyone involved with that crap is given the maximum sentence (dunno about the relevant state law, but would imagine it's not too different from texas [10 years]).
Every post you make ecourages the idea that you're a 20 year old girl from Georgia.
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Old 03-26-2010, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Every post you make ecourages the idea that you're a 20 year old girl from Georgia.
Yes. Damn you njx for not assuming every girl who gets assaulted or raped is a golddigging ***** who deserved it!
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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For real though njx is right. It's pretty natural for us, as fans, to assume that either
a) our football playing heroes can get any girl they want
b) anyone who accuses them of rape is just after the money.

But both of those things are obviously wrong. She was drinking, big whoop. I know in the states, underage drinking is way more frowned upon than it is here in Canada, but honestly if on the scale of crimes committed, underage drinking is above sexual assault, it's a joke. It's like if a drunk driver kills someone in an accident and it's reported the person who died wasn't wearing a seatbelt and that's supposed to make the drunk driver innocent. I know no one is saying that here, but like YFS said, they're gonna use the fact that she was drinking against her, fair or not.

Anyway, I don't know for sure what happened and I'm not going to blame Ben here, because we don't know what happened. But what njx is doing is 100% correct, because if he wasn't here there's a good chance this whole thing would just turn into a "oh, she was a drunk ho, and besides, who wouldn't sleep with Ben? I'm a straight man and I'd be honoured" and series of rape jokes.
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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it's pretty impressive that you were able to comb through some 19,000+ posts and come to that conclusion (you DID say 'every').

but really, is that the best you can do? 'you defend potential sexual assault victims, so you must be a girl! it's much more manly to make jokes about how funny rape is, lulz!'
i am sorry i wasn't specific enough. i thought for sure the three quotes i put in would be enough of an indicator. all i was trying to inflect with my post is that you are way to emotionally involved. seriously were you raped or was someone close to you raped?

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Yes. Damn you njx for not assuming every girl who gets assaulted or raped is a golddigging ***** who deserved it!
where have i advocated that stance?
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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For real though njx is right. It's pretty natural for us, as fans, to assume that either
a) our football playing heroes can get any girl they want
b) anyone who accuses them of rape is just after the money.

But both of those things are obviously wrong. She was drinking, big whoop. I know in the states, underage drinking is way more frowned upon than it is here in Canada, but honestly if on the scale of crimes committed, underage drinking is above sexual assault, it's a joke. It's like if a drunk driver kills someone in an accident and it's reported the person who died wasn't wearing a seatbelt and that's supposed to make the drunk driver innocent. I know no one is saying that here, but like YFS said, they're gonna use the fact that she was drinking against her, fair or not.

Anyway, I don't know for sure what happened and I'm not going to blame Ben here, because we don't know what happened. But what njx is doing is 100% correct, because if he wasn't here there's a good chance this whole thing would just turn into a "oh, she was a drunk ho, and besides, who wouldn't sleep with Ben? I'm a straight man and I'd be honoured" and series of rape jokes.
which that insensitivity(that i am guilty of) was probably one of the reasons AQ left and there aren't more female posters on here.

(if i'm wrong then please don't post the replies here, leave this discussion for Big Ben)
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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How many cases in the last 20 years dealing with sexual assualt have actually resulted in the athlete/person you or I know be indicted on charges and actually charged/brought to court for that offense?

I know it is an issue that has to be dealt on a case by case scenario. More often than not their are too many inconsistancies in the case against the accusee. Alcohol, drugs, entourages, etc.

Once I hear of stories where charges are brought forward, people are convicted and jailed then I won't be on the sidelines waiting for things to play out. My personal experience with this issue(not me myself, but those close to me) make me apprehensive in thinking this girl, whom ever it may be has a valid case. But I will state it is something dealt on a case by case scenario. Innocent until proven guilty works for both accuser and accusee. Bring forward a case that is substantiated with a consistant story where someone actually is charged and incarcerated then I'll take off my pom poms.
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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which that insensitivity(that i am guilty of) was probably one of the reasons AQ left and there aren't more female posters on here.

(if i'm wrong then please don't post the replies here, leave this discussion for Big Ben)
Please. AQ didn't leave because of rape jokes. She left because she was a psycho hosebeast who pulled the sexist card every opportunity she got.

She freaked out on a fellow poster who put up a gif from a scene from It's Always Sunny where a biker almost gets run over by a car. Why? Because [i]she's[/b] rides a bike everywhere so she knows how it feels to not be respected on the road. Therefore, nobody should be allowed to laugh at it because SHE deemed it cruel and insensitive to people who ride bikes.
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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still, my attempted point is that having a ''wolf pack'' of male posters already leads itself to a gender insensitive environment. because of the nature of this topic, any gender sensitive remarks will be taken a closer look at than say in the locker room discussions. if we happen to have a pittsburgh steeler female fan sign up and look at this thread, then she will most likely be outraged and will not post here again.

and yes i am guilty as hell of being insensitive. look at my prowler's guide to women in one of the relationship threads....but i see i should temper my comments in this thread.
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Old 03-26-2010, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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still, my attempted point is that having a ''wolf pack'' of male posters already leads itself to a gender insensitive environment. because of the nature of this topic, any gender sensitive remarks will be taken a closer look at than say in the locker room discussions. if we happen to have a pittsburgh steeler female fan sign up and look at this thread, then she will most likely be outraged and will not post here again.

and yes i am guilty as hell of being insensitive. look at my prowler's guide to women in one of the relationship threads....but i see i should temper my comments in this thread.
I would love to look at your Prowler's Guide to Women, but I don't have Off-Topic viewing or posting priviledges.
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Old 03-26-2010, 01:12 PM    (permalink
bored of education
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
relevance? (not trying to be a prick here, even though it likely sounds that way)



how many of those were hushed over because said athlete had the money to buy off a legitimate case, or because he or she was able to intimidate the accuser ('i have nearly unlimited funds and will destroy you in court, etc.')? how many people STILL think mike tyson was innocent?

none of this is relevant to this/any other case.
if this is not relevant to this case then fine, the girl is obviously a money grubbing ***** because this has been going on this long and its getting no where.

the facts presented so far screams prom queen screaming rape
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 03-26-2010, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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there's a shadow over too much of this to really see anything clearly in this situation. there's a very very real chance that this woman was actually either pushed or struck by roethlisberger in a locked bathroom that was being guarded by his bodyguard. and there's a chance that this was atleast partially caught on video and then covered up. there is also a chance that roethlisberger has made her life a living hell for these past few weeks and has now offered her money to refuse to cooperate and to make the press stop hounding her.

and yeah there's also a chance that this never happened and was a bad dream.
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Old 03-26-2010, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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money grubbing? based on the complete lack of a civil suit? that's an intriguing interpretation of how the criminal courts work.

also, i don't understand how an irrelevant comments leads to "she's obviously scum based on the complete lack of knowledge i have regarding this case", but to each their own, i guess.
ok maybe just a ***** works.

It's not my fault more than half of sexual assault cases are not reported but the ones that are the lead to conviction then jail time are about 10%. IS that because of the judicial system?
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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Originally Posted by Hermstheman83 View Post
What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

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Old 03-26-2010, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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citation needed. regardless, there are a substantial number of arguments for. given that neither of us sat on a single one of those juries, any theorizing otherwise is pure conjecture and AGAIN completely irrelevant to THIS CASE.

you're basically arguing that q implies p because p implies q. it's a ridiculous way to construct an argument.

if you want to say 'i think this woman, in spite of having no knowledge of anything in this case, other than that evidence has been tampered with and that the cops are not asking for DNA evidence anymore, is a worthless ***** and should be thrown in jail posthaste for false reporting', just say it. trying to couch it in an actual argument is counter-productive to your cause.
i think this woman, in spite of having no knowledge of anything in this case, other than that evidence has been tampered with and that the cops are not asking for DNA evidence anymore, is a worthless ***** and should be thrown in jail posthaste for false reporting
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 03-26-2010, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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References
U.S. Department of Justice.2005 National Crime Victimization Study. 2005.
Bureau of Justice Statistics. Rape and Sexual Assault: Reporting to Police and Medical Attention. 1992-2000.
National Center for Policy Analysis. Crime and Punishment in America. 1999.
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<+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
<+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
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What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 03-26-2010, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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money grubbing? based on the complete lack of a civil suit? that's an intriguing interpretation of how the criminal courts work.

also, i don't understand how an irrelevant comments leads to "she's obviously scum based on the complete lack of knowledge i have regarding this case", but to each their own, i guess.
The civil suit doesn't always have to be filed in conjunction with the criminal charge. In fact, it's usually done because her attorneys will have to assess what the totality of the claims filed will be and how much to ask for in damages. This isn't usually known until months after the incident, when they can claim that she's suffering mental and emotional imstability as a result of the incident or if she becomes the target of public scorn.

I don't know if the accuser has retained an attorney or not so maybe someone can confirm if she does or doesn't. But if she has retained legal counsel you can almost guarantee a civil suit will be eventually be filed. Firstly, the attorney will see a potential goldmine and will probably pressure her into it, and even if Ben is not indicted criminally, she will still have attorney fees and costs to pay for (again IF she has retained an attorney - I currently have no idea if she has).
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Old 03-26-2010, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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were nicole brown's (and the other dude's, can't remember his name) family a bunch of gold diggers, then? i don't buy it. they went through the proper criminal channels first.

i think it's personally ridiculous that the wrongful death verdict could be guilty when murder wasn't, but i'm not intending to debate the nuances of civil v. criminal proceedings.
I never insinuated that. I'm simply stating that the fact that she hasn't filed a civil suit doesn't mean that she won't. It's almost guaranteed to happen - regardless if her motive is to just get paid off or if he really did it and she does deserve monetary compensation. I'm not taking a side either way because I don't know anything about this case. I also don't know enough about the OJ case to compare it to this one, as I was still very young during that trial. I don't remember if the Goldman's filed their civil suit in conjunction with OJ indictment or after he had been acquitted.

Interesting that you use the OJ comparison, though because at this point, it looks like the case is being completely bungled by investigators.

And regarding the wrongful death vs murder...that's just how it is. Two different courts of law, two different standards of innocence and guilt, and two differerent sets of rules regarding how much protection the defendant has.
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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i'm certainly nott trying to pin that point of view on you, so much as highlighting the ridiculous way the girl has been portrayed here. regardless of whether a civil suit *ever* emerges, calling her a 'gold digger' for initiating criminal proceedings is ******* idiotic.

as i remember the OJ case, the civil trial wasn't initiated until he was pronounced innocent. as i remember, it was initiated to 'punish' OJ because everyone 'knew' () he was guilty.

i'm unsure why they'd need to press to recoup legal fees, however. as i understand it, the DA should be prosecuting the case, and as far as i'm aware (obviously, IANAL) the state would be the one pressing the case, not her personal attorneys. (assuming, of course, that she hasn't retained her own representation for some reason)



yeah, i'm not sure why, even if one has to go investigate a second case, one would leave what might be the only copy of crucial evidence at the scene. whatever.



yup.
It just depends on if she has retained legal counsel or not. If she did, she'll still be on the hook for a retainer agreement that could be anywhere from $1000 to $5000 whether she decides to file a suit or not (nothing outrageous, but still a lot of money to a twenty year old college student). That's why I said a big clue to whether there will be a civil suit or not is if she has already hired an attorney.

Also, there needs to be a complete overhaul of the judicial system, but that's a post for a whole other day.
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