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Old 03-26-2010, 05:02 PM    (permalink
RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES
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I am going out to chill with Mr. Marley but I shall return to add more of my opinion
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Just let it go RWO.
We as Ravens fans are clearly scum of the earth, and should just be happy that these great people, who cheer for nothing than the finest, morally impeccable players, playing on the finest, most morally impeccable teams, will grace us with their presence, and words of wisdom.

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Old 03-26-2010, 05:07 PM    (permalink
yourfavestoner
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I am going out to chill with Mr. Marley but I shall return to add more of my opinion
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Old 03-27-2010, 08:44 PM    (permalink
Dam8610
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
no they wouldn't, that makes zero economic sense. i'm going to go with whatever decision makes me the most money, period. if i can make more because people want to watch peyton manning and tom brady, that's my decision. and you're seriously deluded if you think more people want to watch jason campbell just because the skins can sell more apparel.
How is an owner going to make more because people want to watch other team's players, unless that team acquires those players? I understand a lot of the NFL's revenue is shared, but all of it isn't, so each team that gives to the revenue sharing pool gets to keep the remainder of its profits. Obviously each club is limited in revenue streams at some point, economically it has to happen, so how does an owner maximize the potential of his franchise to earn? Market well and provide a quality product, aka a winning team. If one of those ingredients are missing, then revenues won't be at their best.

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i'm also curious where you think the vast majority of a team's revenue comes from.
I can't say that I know for certain, but I'd imagine most of it comes from TV contracts, ticket sales, sponsorships, apparel, etc. I don't see how a loss is going to make revenues go up though, as the only things from the list I can see increasing revenue independent of the shared pool would be apparel and sponsorships, and both would likely go down in the event of a losing team.

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but tom brady beating your team in overtime increases its exposure and guarantees more people tune into your games, thereby increasing the amount of money you make.
So you're saying that the leaguewide TV contract revenue isn't divided equally, but distributed based on ratings? Even if that were the case, it would still be in the best interest of the team to field a winning product, as that would maximize their TV revenue. And if it's not the case, then TV revenue would be distributed equally and again sponsorship and apparel sales would likely fall due to the negative exposure of a loss, so either way, a loss hurts the bottom line.

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ah, right, precedent doesn't matter in business. i totally forgot. people always exhibit revolutionary thinking in business. i'm glad your opinion is "i'm right in spite of any evidence to the contrary because i'm right."
Well, there are two flaws to this statement. The first is you've provided no evidence to back your claim, so your little parody quote, while amusing, is inaccurate. The second is that while precedent does matter in business (and I never said that it doesn't), those that escalate commitment to poor decisions usually don't stay in business very long, and given that most of these men are billionaires, I'd imagine they understand how to make smart business decisions.
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Old 03-27-2010, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
didn't you already mention the washington redskins? how do they make more money than any other franchise (yes, even the yankees) in spite of not having done anything for nearly two decades?

"Under Snyder's tenure, the Redskins have been a testament to the fact that in the NFL, winning and making money can be mutually exclusive goals." - http://www.newsweek.com/id/227815

but yeah, the only teams people give money to are winning teams. that's why, in 2009, the texans were the 6th most valuable, right? (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/30/...ions_Rank.html)

please let me know when you have some vague understanding of the topic at hand. then we can continue.
I'd call what Snyder did marketing well, which, had you read my last post, you'd see that I clearly stated that part of the equation of maximizing revenues was to market well. To quote your article:

Quote:
Since buying the team in 1999 for $800 million, Snyder has doubled its value by saturating every orifice of the D.C. area with Redskins' burgundy and gold. He's bought radio stations, charged fans to watch players sweat through training camp, and opened 14 Redskins retail stores to sell as many jerseys, hats, and Redskins' paraphernalia as possible. Snyder was even rumored to have considered selling a brand of Redskins cola at one point.

...

"Snyder took a very under-marketed asset and squeezed every last cent out of it," says Dan Kaplan, finance editor at The Sports Business Journal. "He's turned the Redskins into a cash machine. And the result is a completely soulless, corporate product."
The other part of the equation you're missing is market size and demographics, both of which play key roles in the baseline and maximum potential earnings of a franchise. Don't you think Snyder's bottom line would be even higher if the Redskins had the track record of the Colts, Patriots, or Steelers over the last 10 years?

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
yes, the tv contract. which is shared revenue. which means that if peyton manning and tom brady playing overtime increases viewership, i greatly enhance the value of my franchise the next time we negotiate a contract. but again, the redskins sure have had a hard time selling their apparel. see the link above.
You also lose sponsorships, apparel sales, and potential playoff home game revenue, and one particular game outside of the Super Bowl likely has very little if any correlation to the increase or decrease in revenue the NFL collects from TV contracts. Again, Snyder marketed the hell out of the Redskins, but I'm sure his apparel sales would go up at his 14 stores if the Redskins were a consistent winner, and he'd probably be able to squeeze a few more dollars out of those luxury suites, PSLs, radio station ads, etc. as well.

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
when did i remotely imply that?
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
but tom brady beating your team in overtime increases its exposure and guarantees more people tune into your games, thereby increasing the amount of money you make.
What exactly do you expect people to infer from the bolded portion? That seems to be what you're trying to say.

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
it's not the case. stop inventing things to argue against.
Next time express your point clearly and I won't have to demonstrate that all possibilities fail.

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
no, it quite frankly doesn't. demonstrably. from nearly every source that discusses team revenue and value.
Sure, if you exclusively consider a winning team as the only variable to the equation, not one of a multitude of variables that contribute to the equation of maximizing potential earnings.

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
why the hell would *i* provide evidence?
Because it was your assertion that precedent would play a large factor in the NFL's decision making, as evidenced here:

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
yes, there's a strong history of the nfl realizing it made a mistake and reverting back to the way things were.
How many times have you asked people to back up their claims with evidence? Are you holding others to a higher standard than yourself?

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i asked for a specific piece of information, you responded with "well these guys are smarter than me". what do you want me to do, provide the evidence for you so there's actually an argument? again, provide me with at least 3 examples of rule changes that've been rolled back. we've already discussed instant replay, so there's your freebie.
Why should I provide the evidence for or against the assertion that you made? You simply can't prove what someone or a group of someone's WILL do, I just trust business minds that have obviously made smart decisions in the past to continue to do so, the best proof I can provide for my argument is the net worth of the NFL owners, which is probably as high as the GDP of some decent sized nations. Your precedent argument would be the one that requires the proof you asked for, so go find it.

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i mean, remember when i said this:



and you failed in literally every way possible to come up with a remotely reasonable response to it? right, that's still going on.
Yes, I remember when you tried to pass the burden of proving your argument to me, I just refuse to do it.

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
oh, right, they're just not *necessary*. well that's meaningful.
No, they're not necessary, because again, you can't prove what people will do. Precedents do play a factor in some business decisions, but smart businesses and smart businessmen will look past precedents that don't produce the results they want.

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
yeah, still waiting for the examples or any proof that you have any vague idea what you're talking about. none has been forthcoming.
There's a plethora of books out there that deal with decision making in business and the pitfalls of basing decisions on biases (primacy effect and recency effect, or essentially precedents being part of those), any one of those books should explain the concept I'm trying to get across here.

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
should i simply assume that this is all a knee jerk response to some perceived criticism of bill polian and peyton manning?
If you want to ignore the entire discussion, sure, go ahead. I don't think any of my points have been based around a defense of either of them, but you can think what you want.
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The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

Quote:
<Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
<Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge

Last edited by Dam8610 : 03-27-2010 at 11:06 PM.
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