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Old 06-17-2010, 12:03 PM    (permalink
Jughead10
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
Yes a lot of that is tied into Pagan's defense. His bat has been like this for almost a full year now so maybe he's figured things out. He very well might turn back into a pumpkin at which he would become a 4th OF bt at this rate he's one of the better CR's in baseball.
There are a lot of CFers I'd rather have over him. I don't care how good his defense is, whether that data is right or not.

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Old 06-17-2010, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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So when Beltran comes back, does Francoeur get benched?
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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Note about the Mets and the draft: They might be one of the worst drafting teams in baseball. They tend to target low upside college players in the draft. Their lack of gamble and projection, along with below average development, is a big reason why they're not producing a lot of stars out of their farm.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Nieuwenhuis is a lousy defender and he didn't have 20 homers or 20 SB's in his first pro season, and he's not exactly tearing it up this year. I really doubt he's anything more than a fourth outfielder
Huh????

And you are basing this on various reports that suggest otherwise?
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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So when Beltran comes back, does Francoeur get benched?
Probably. Some have speculated Beltran might play RF for a bit when he comes back to ease his knees back into things.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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Note about the Mets and the draft: They might be one of the worst drafting teams in baseball. They tend to target low upside college players in the draft. Their lack of gamble and projection, along with below average development, is a big reason why they're not producing a lot of stars out of their farm.
That was my point. The Mets seem to have a lot of average looking prospects. Some of who may end up being better than most think. Such as Davis. But when making trades, teams don't want players with average ceilings. They want to take a chance on greatness with a prospect with the fallback being an average player if he doesn't pan out.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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Huh????

And you are basing this on various reports that suggest otherwise?
I don't usually put too much stock into total zone at Minor League Splits, but when it's THAT bad, you kind of take notice to it.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Did I miss a memo or something? Is this "pick on the Mets" day? :)

Ok then you guys should trade for these top pitchers if your prospects are so much superior.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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That was my point. The Mets seem to have a lot of average looking prospects. Some of who may end up being better than most think. Such as Davis. But when making trades, teams don't want players with average ceilings. They want to take a chance on greatness with a prospect with the fallback being an average player if he doesn't pan out.
They are routinely panned for filling their farm with college pitchers, so they then have to go buy players like Lee or mortgage their farm for players like Santana. It is just bad organizational strategy. It was bad before Minaya and hasn't improved. That leads me to believe that it is an ownership issue.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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Note about the Mets and the draft: They might be one of the worst drafting teams in baseball. They tend to target low upside college players in the draft. Their lack of gamble and projection, along with below average development, is a big reason why they're not producing a lot of stars out of their farm.
That's how Dave Littlefield drafted. I hated it.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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Did I miss a memo or something? Is this "pick on the Mets" day? :)

Ok then you guys should trade for these top pitchers if your prospects are so much superior.
I think the Mets have a pretty solid system, I just don't know why you had to bring up Kirk Nieuwenhuis.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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mortgage their farm for players like Santana.
Yeap, that's what happened.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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Did I miss a memo or something? Is this "pick on the Mets" day? :)

Ok then you guys should trade for these top pitchers if your prospects are so much superior.
My team doesn't need it. Although I wouldn't mind trading for someone like DeJesus. That's who I want this deadline season.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:17 PM    (permalink
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That's how Dave Littlefield drafted. I hated it.
Say what you want, but some of the talent he drafted is now in the majors. Part of your current core that will help the Pirates become less crappy.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Yeap, that's what happened.
No you certainly didn't mortgage the farm there. Santana was a gift to get him out of the AL. None of those prospects were ever good. The system wasn't great before that and it really didn't take much of a hit after.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Say what you want, but some of the talent he drafted is now in the majors. Part of your current core that will help the Pirates become less crappy.
Yes I know. The first rounders were usually good, but later on the draft wasn't that good although he had some gems here and there.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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I think the Mets have a pretty solid system, I just don't know why you had to bring up Kirk Nieuwenhuis.
He needs refinement in various areas, but scouts love him. I've read several quotes of praise for him.

I'm not the only one who thinks he has high upside.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Yeap, that's what happened.
Deolis Guerra could still turn out all right...
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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The Mets could have better players in their farm, but their organizational philosophy prevents them from capitalizing on this talent. Look at the Red Sox. They have just as much money as the Mets, yet their farm system churns out studs across the board. No reason why the Mets couldn't do this.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Pagan has been a decent player this year, but seems to be a guy having his best year with the bat. Just have fun while the ride is ongoing. It is rare for a guy to be about 29 and suddenly have a career renaissance, it could happen as its not unprecedented, but it is unlikely. Don't go all Gary Matthews Jr. on him, and ride the next year or maybe 2 out.


Also, as a Clevelander I really love when a New York team complains about needing cost controlled talent.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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Nothing wrong with having cost-controlled talent, no matter what your revenues. Those guys are essentially pure profit. Gives you flexibility to spend on holes...
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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The Mets could have better players in their farm, but their organizational philosophy prevents them from capitalizing on this talent. Look at the Red Sox. They have just as much money as the Mets, yet their farm system churns out studs across the board. No reason why the Mets couldn't do this.
The reason why the Red Sox have studs in their system is because they're willing to spend money in the draft for top players and go out in the International circuit and spend top dollar on them.

With Omar as GM for the Mets, I don't think I've seen that.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Mets farm system isn't bad.

They have PLENTY of high upside prospects. Granted, most of them are International signings, but oh well.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bsaza2358 View Post
Nothing wrong with having cost-controlled talent, no matter what your revenues. Those guys are essentially pure profit. Gives you flexibility to spend on holes...
You can't be not loving seeing a team who can give a huge Contract to Jason Bay, when they already have a few guys with big deals complain about cost controlled talent like they have a 45 million dollar budget
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:32 PM    (permalink
bsaza2358
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I'm a Phillies fan, and my team had a cost controlled budget for years. Then they started drafting better (see: Hamels, Happ, Utley, Rollins, Rolen, Burrell, Victorino, Howard, Myers, Madson, etc.) and paid to retain the talent.

Philly isn't the same as a town like KC, where the population is smaller, so it's a bit of a special case. Still, teams can win by building through the draft. See: Florida and Tampa.
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