Dallas Cowboys Discussion

[thule]

Originally Posted by CDCB14

I haven't really been studying this years upcoming prospects yet, what about Safeties?

Safety class appears to have good talent. I have a feeling it might be a bit top heavy. Reminds me a lot of last years class. Unless Ball has a terrible year I think we are confident in Hamlin and Ball tho with AOA as developmental...not sure I buy safety at this point in the process.

[thule]

Tony Curtis just got released I wonder if he might not find his way back to dallas.

[thule]

Jason Spitz from GB is another name to look out for...I think we might have our eye on him...he might be released.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by M.O.T.H.

We get a 6th round pick if Crayton catches 40 or more passes.

Awesome. Reason being is I feel like he can do that being their #3 WR, Chargers pass the ball alot. Granted he's behind Gates, Sproles, Floyd and probably Nanee(sp?), that's a number he can reach. 7th was cool also. I mean he was our 4th WR this year, he's not starting, next year he wouldn't either because he's not getting any better and while some people are afraid to go with the unproven guy Hurd and Ogletree both can provide what he would this year, and their gonna both be better next year.

Originally Posted by CDCB14

I haven't really been studying this years upcoming prospects yet, what about Safeties?

I don't know if the 2011 draft thread is stickied or not yet, but wherever it is in here I talked about the top few prospects at Safety. I really need to see more, but it at least looks at guys like Rahim Moore who I would like here.

Originally Posted by thule

If I'm predicting the draft I think it goes something like this.

DE - one of the nasty 5-tech's in this years class will fall. If I had to pick a name I thought would be available here it's probably Allen Bailey Miami. I think someone better will be available..but he's a safe bet...Don't buy top 15 talk regardless of workouts.

Thule I would LOOOVE it if Bailey was there, I know you said don't buy top 15 hype but I feel like a GM will. I just can't see him being there past the first 25 picks of the draft, he'd have to have a really down season because he blew up last year.

[LizardState]

Look at the effect Pouncey is having on the steelers. Interior o-line picks are almost automatic. It isn't sexy, but it needs to be done. Unless an unbelievable value has fallen, just take the best C/OG.

That's the exception, not the rule. The Steelers are one of the few throwback teams who draft & start pure centers, most teams like to have a swingman/converted OG who has the versatility, hence Gurode & Kosier with Dallas.

Maybe it's b/c of the high injury rate among centers, a lot of whom end up playing hurt all season with those nagging ones -- centers ankles & hands tend to take a real beating.

[xxxxxxxx]

Anyone consider picking up hartwig?

[herniateddisc]

1) Colombo was a great pick up by Parcells and guess what so was Kosier.
2) Rivera messed up his back the minute he came to Dallas and was never the same.
3) All these late rounders have not worked b/c we have put first/second rounders in front of them. Not an indication of their quality in so much as we do have talent on the OL. Except Kosier, all are high picks.
4) Part of issue with the OL is the fact (which I have pointed out) that we changed OL Concepts when we changed from Sparano to Houck -- and fact is it takes 3-4 years to get an OL that makes sense as a unit. We are starting in year 2 and I still don't get this line. Kosier and Free can move. Gurode, Davis and Colombo can't. What kind of line do we want????? Mobile or mountain movers?????
5) Many of these late rounders got caught in point 4.
6) I want the team to get Gurode back to guard and get us a Center who can pull and do a shot gun snap properly. In fact, I love the big as a house Tackles with the smaller, pulling interior lineman who can move their feet though with Davis and Gurode as Guard that ain't happening.
7) Our OL is getting old all at the same time and that is a problem.

But anyway.

[xxxxxxxx]

Originally Posted by herniateddisc

1) Colombo was a great pick up by Parcells and guess what so was Kosier.
2) Rivera messed up his back the minute he came to Dallas and was never the same.
3) All these late rounders have not worked b/c we have put first/second rounders in front of them. Not an indication of their quality in so much as we do have talent on the OL. Except Kosier, all are high picks.
4) Part of issue with the OL is the fact (which I have pointed out) that we changed OL Concepts when we changed from Sparano to Houck -- and fact is it takes 3-4 years to get an OL that makes sense as a unit. We are starting in year 2 and I still don't get this line. Kosier and Free can move. Gurode, Davis and Colombo can't. What kind of line do we want????? Mobile or mountain movers?????
5) Many of these late rounders got caught in point 4.
6) I want the team to get Gurode back to guard and get us a Center who can pull and do a shot gun snap properly. In fact, I love the big as a house Tackles with the smaller, pulling interior lineman who can move their feet though with Davis and Gurode as Guard that ain't happening.
7) Our OL is getting old all at the same time and that is a problem.

But anyway.

Solid points, Texico. Solid points.

I think we all agree, we need to pick a philosophy with this offensive line and stick to it. Free is the LT of the future, by the looks of it. Now, we have solid veterans in place for now, but we need to build around that. Do we try to get Barron to realize his talent on the right side? I think Sam young can step in in a year or 2 and be a Colombo clone.

As for the interior, guards can last a while, but it's time to take a blue-chip young prospect and plug him in. We just have to. It's long overdue. I don't want free agents. Just draft a 1st or 2nd rounder and let him develop for the next year or 2 while these guys can still play. It seems like a pop warner coach could manage that..

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by LizardState

That's the exception, not the rule. The Steelers are one of the few throwback teams who draft & start pure centers, most teams like to have a swingman/converted OG who has the versatility, hence Gurode & Kosier with Dallas.

Maybe it's b/c of the high injury rate among centers, a lot of whom end up playing hurt all season with those nagging ones -- centers ankles & hands tend to take a real beating.

Pouncey can play anywhere on the interior, same for the one on the Steelers and the one coming out this upcoming draft. Pitt just needed him more there. We absolutely need a guy who can play G/C and be a stud anywhere we needed him. We got lucky with Davis in FA because he was a former tackle who we found a better fit at Guard. Columbo was coming off a big injury and some thought was done, we always can't rely on those types of chances, I want some premium picks there.


I guess I'm different then a few others here in that I would not be upset at all with a G in the 1st, just like I would have liked Iupati if he was there and he's gonna be a pro bowler. You wait on a guy and end up with a bust like Duke Robinson who alot of people wanted on the Cowboys.

[herniateddisc]

Originally Posted by CDCB14

Solid points, Texico. Solid points.

I think we all agree, we need to pick a philosophy with this offensive line and stick to it. Free is the LT of the future, by the looks of it. Now, we have solid veterans in place for now, but we need to build around that. Do we try to get Barron to realize his talent on the right side? I think Sam young can step in in a year or 2 and be a Colombo clone.

As for the interior, guards can last a while, but it's time to take a blue-chip young prospect and plug him in. We just have to. It's long overdue. I don't want free agents. Just draft a 1st or 2nd rounder and let him develop for the next year or 2 while these guys can still play. It seems like a pop warner coach could manage that..

Personally, there is always a 30+ year-old lineman who are cut b/c of contracts. They always become available for ONE SEASON at decent money. That is what we should do and then supplement with some high draft choices.

But

Brewster, a reach who was really and UDFA, is a question mark.
Colombo who knows.
Kosiers now is getting injured regularly.
Free is a who knows on performance.
Davis is getting up there in age and does not move well -- he can't get to LB in space

Lots of issues.

PS, I am Texico now????????? Dear Lord.

[herniateddisc]

Hope we can also trade MBIII. Some rumors going around.

Pick up 3 late rounders .... be nice. Maybe this time genius can use them to trade up and get some quality over quantity.

[xxxxxxxx]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Pouncey can play anywhere on the interior, same for the one on the Steelers and the one coming out this upcoming draft. Pitt just needed him more there. We absolutely need a guy who can play G/C and be a stud anywhere we needed him. We got lucky with Davis in FA because he was a former tackle who we found a better fit at Guard. Columbo was coming off a big injury and some thought was done, we always can't rely on those types of chances, I want some premium picks there.


I guess I'm different then a few others here in that I would not be upset at all with a G in the 1st, just like I would have liked Iupati if he was there and he's gonna be a pro bowler. You wait on a guy and end up with a bust like Duke Robinson who alot of people wanted on the Cowboys.

Thank you. We may get by this year... but o-line is holding this team back. Especially in the future.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by herniateddisc

1) Colombo was a great pick up by Parcells and guess what so was Kosier.
2) Rivera messed up his back the minute he came to Dallas and was never the same.
3) All these late rounders have not worked b/c we have put first/second rounders in front of them. Not an indication of their quality in so much as we do have talent on the OL. Except Kosier, all are high picks.
4) Part of issue with the OL is the fact (which I have pointed out) that we changed OL Concepts when we changed from Sparano to Houck -- and fact is it takes 3-4 years to get an OL that makes sense as a unit. We are starting in year 2 and I still don't get this line. Kosier and Free can move. Gurode, Davis and Colombo can't. What kind of line do we want????? Mobile or mountain movers?????
5) Many of these late rounders got caught in point 4.
6) I want the team to get Gurode back to guard and get us a Center who can pull and do a shot gun snap properly. In fact, I love the big as a house Tackles with the smaller, pulling interior lineman who can move their feet though with Davis and Gurode as Guard that ain't happening.
7) Our OL is getting old all at the same time and that is a problem.

But anyway.

1) Columbo was a nice pet project... but come on now... He's only given us 3 and half good years and we're already talking about the need to replace him. Good short term pick up, nothing more.

2) Rivera is still another BP OL folly. I don't care if he got hurt. I wanted Wahle.

3) Parcells flopped early and late in the draft on our OL...not just late. Jacob Rogers...2nd rounder. Stephen Peterman.. 3rd. Al Johnson... 2nd (the year after we drafted Gurode, mind you). In fact, Parcells wanted to move Gurode to Guard, then late got credit for moving him back to Center... where Jerry originally planned for him in the first place.

4) I think if you look at the OL that we have brought in (Brewster/Young) and the ones that we have shown interest in (Unger/Iupati), then you can quickly realize what kind of OL that Houck wants to build here. There has been no confusion. The 2 guys you mention (Free/Kosier)... they aren't guys brought in during Houck's reign. Yes, the OL is a work in progress... but Free is here to stay... even if he doesn't work out on the left side. We know he can start on the right.

5) Many of the "late" rounders??? As if to filter them out? Hmmm... How about every single Parcells OL draft pick failed. Early and late. Jacob Rogers, Stephen Peterman, Rob Petitte, Pat McQuistan, EJ Whitley. I don't think I can blame the system for any of their failures.

6) The moment Gurode no longer serves us well at Center is the day we need to cut him. He's not worth the money to keep him on at Guard. I think Guards are easily found in the draft and FA.

7) OL can generally play longer than most other positions. Kosier, Gurode, Davis and Colombo aren't retiring before their contracts run out. Nobody ever knows how good your young OL are until they actually face live bullets.

8) Parcells did the most amazing job turning this team around, and I love him more than any coach we've had (since I've been cheering for the Cowboys) for it. But I'm not going to generalize everything in saying it was awesome, and not point out any of his mistakes either.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by CDCB14

Thank you. We may get by this year... but o-line is holding this team back. Especially in the future.

The future is unclear, the but the future is not holding us back now. We have enough talent for this team to win the SB.

Garrett is the only one that really scares me.

[LonghornsLegend]

Someone should really look at how bad Parcells has drafted since going to Miami, since some people act like he is such a better football guy then Jerry. Yes Miami has been turned around but they have had some HUGE bust early into the draft that people would have been killing Jerry over.


Pat White in the 2nd round, Patrick Turner in the 3rd round was waived, Donad Thomas released, Jalen Parmele was a bum, those are just off the top of my head but I bet if someone looked at their draft classes since he's been there it would be pretty bad. Henne and Jake Long pretty much gives you a good base because the positions are so important but other then that nothing to get excited about.


People just love to focus on Jerry's mistakes sometimes(typical for certain Cowboy fans) but ignore how bad other people draft who are supposed to be "football" guys. We would have a million threads talking about "FIRE JERRUH NOW" if some of our classes looked like those.

[xxxxxxxx]

Herniateddisc... you kinda just got dominated... lol.

But anyway... INTERIOR O-LINE ONE OF THE FIRST 2 ROUNDS!!!

FTW.

And yes, Garrett is what will hold us back for THIS season.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Someone should really look at how bad Parcells has drafted since going to Miami, since some people act like he is such a better football guy then Jerry. Yes Miami has been turned around but they have had some HUGE bust early into the draft that people would have been killing Jerry over.


Pat White in the 2nd round, Patrick Turner in the 3rd round was waived, Donad Thomas released, Jalen Parmele was a bum, those are just off the top of my head but I bet if someone looked at their draft classes since he's been there it would be pretty bad. Henne and Jake Long pretty much gives you a good base because the positions are so important but other then that nothing to get excited about.


People just love to focus on Jerry's mistakes sometimes(typical for certain Cowboy fans) but ignore how bad other people draft who are supposed to be "football" guys. We would have a million threads talking about "FIRE JERRUH NOW" if some of our classes looked like those.

Jerry has actually developed into a pretty damn good GM. His past couple of drafts have been pretty good.

That said, BP has done great with Miami too. Every GM is gonna miss some times.

[M.O.T.H.]

I guess we'll find out how much the Cowboys like Sam Hurd now. Since he turned down a pay cut. I dont blame the guy at all, either.

Thule's boy, Myron Rolle, was released.

No. That's all I have to say about picking him up. :)

[Macarthur]

You know, the boys have been getting grilled for shipping out Crayton. I like Crayton and would have preferred to keep him.

However, I find many of the people criticizing the team for this are the same people that have killed Jerry over the years for not having a more NE approach and getting rid of guys that either stop progress or are reaching the end of their career. JJ has done just this and gets criticized for it.

[M.O.T.H.]

Keeping Crayton is so unnecessary. He'd just be pissed off riding the bench all year. $2 million isnt a lot for most players, imo. So I wouldnt even have cared paying that much for a #4. But the guy has a big head and isnt even as talented as Hurd, so why did we need to keep him? It's not like he's a great punt returner, either. He had a flukey season last year, but we have much better options now.

We have plenty of depth at the position, assuming we keep Hurd. Hell, Hurd/Oggs may end up being an upgrade over Crayton or even Williams down the line.

[M.O.T.H.]

ugh. Dallas sure is taking their time to announce the 53.

[M.O.T.H.]

We cut Bryan Mccann according to his agent. Offered PS if he gets through waivers. Looks like we're going with 6 safeties.

edit...

Cuts are in

OT Will Barker
OG Travis Bright
DE Marcus Dixon
RB Herb Donaldson
TE DajLeon Farr
CB Cletis Gordon
WR Jesse Holley
WR Manny Johnson
OLB Curtis Johnson
CB Bryan McCann
RB Lonyae Miller
LB Steve Octavien
TE Jason Pociask
TE Martin Rucker
DT Jimmy Saddler-McQueen
LB Brandon Sharpe
NT Junior Siavii

uhhhh....we only kept three corners. Roster move bound to happen. Brent kept over Siavii, Leon Williams made it for now, Costa, Church, Mccray, Gronkowski kept.

edit 2...

Rams cut Carp. lol.

[E-Man]

Looks like they have a lot of faith in Brent. I figured they'd keep him and Siavii just in case Rat went down. I like Brent though, so I'm happy he'll get some snaps.

I wonder what Cletis Gordon is doing on the cut list. He knows the system, is a vet, and is a pretty nice for a 4th guy. That's weird.

[M.O.T.H.]

Lissemore made it too. I totally spaced on him. I didnt think he had a shot and he wasnt great or anything, but they must truly like him. nice.

This isnt final, though. We cant go in the season with 3 corners...despite the fact that AOA and Ball can play corner.

One more cut to make, at least.

[E-Man]

Lissemore shocked me too. I had high hopes for him when he got drafted. I figured he could be a nice rotational guy, so it's good to see him on the team. I didn't see much of him actually playing, but I guess they really have a lot of faith in him.

3 corners is too little. Even if Ball and AOA can play corner, I'd still rather them have another guy. Gordon was perfect for that spot, but I guess the coaches love McCray, Leon, and Lissemore too much to cut.