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Old 09-27-2010, 05:29 PM    (permalink
LonghornsLegend
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Originally Posted by BlindSite View Post
Just because Clausen played worse than Bradford doesn't mean he didn't show promise. You didn't see the game, or any of the Panthers games, you've only seen the stat sheet.


Where did I ever mention that Clausen didn't show promise, or the stat sheet, or any of the other useless points you brought up? Where did I even act like I saw the game, or that I even commented on what happened in the game? way to jump to conclusions to be a homer as fast as you can and bring up irrelevant points to things I never even came close to mentioning.




Quote:
The offensive line that the Panthers relied on last year is missing Otah and have a 2nd year late round pick at guard, who's there for his run blocking ability.

What's happening is that they're stacking the box on the early downs, double covering smith and the back up RT isn't holding down his piece of the puzzle. Neither has Wharton for the most part this year.

For whatever reason, the play calling is allowing defense to readily key on what the Panthers are doing. Otah comes back the offense will look a little better, but Clausen showed a lot of promise and ffs it was his first NFL start.



Yea, because the Rams O-line is 10x better then the Panthers line right? Don't forget people were saying Clausen>Bradford and that they were in the same class, but a good QB makes a bad O-line better. The Rams are terrible in pass blocking, and run blocking.






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Peyton Manning didn't have a QB rating above 66 until his 7th start, no rookie QB regardless of their situation plays well the first three or four times they lace up their cleats in the NFL there's maybe two or three in the modern era and the only recent one is Matt Ryan.

He looked good where it counts, he was decisive, he lead the huddle, changed up some plays successfully at the line, drove down the field well on two occasions only to be let down by fumbles and dropped passes in the end zone.

He looked a lot better than Matt Moore give him some time.


Ah yes, the ol' "well Peyton Manning sucked as a rookie and look how he turned out" argument, we hear that every single year, about every single rookie QB, so that's nothing new.


Once again, where did I once mention how bad Clausen looked, played, or will be in my post? I'd love to hear what you come up with because I never did.


I responded to people talking so much about how all of a sudden Carolina is such a "difficult situation" for Clausen to step into. Oh yea what a poor guy. If only he had 1 above average RB to hand off too, because most QB's can do much much better then having Deangelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart.


Maybe if he had an elite WR to throw to? That's surely help. Maybe if he had 2 above average bookend tackles to protect him? Obviously if you don't have Oher and Gaither there your QB will play like a bum.


The irony of it all is you will hype up any Carolina player, to the max, even when he doesn't deserve it. But now to keep Clausen from getting trashed, all of a sudden your going to trash any and every Panther because they all just make him look bad.


APS hit the nail on the head. Bradford elevated the play of the entire team, that's what you want to see from a QB. But before you jump to the homer rage and start going into a rant over all the Panthers that magically suck on your team now, take the time to actually read what someone is saying, because I didn't even mention the play of Clausen, or what he did in the game, nor did I try and act like I watched the game.


I commented on the surrounding pieces. If you want a QB to step into a better team/situation/supporting cast then the one Clausen came into, you'd have to expect a playoff team to trade up, draft a QB in the top 10, and sit him 2-3 years until you filled every piece on the team in the process.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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You want to see ugly ? Imagine Clausen playing on the Rams with their line and WR's. Bradford's mobility, accuracy and smarts are making him into a top 5 future QB. Imagine if he had a couple weapons. The Rams could and should be 3-0, but playing Arizona, the Raiders and the Skins aren't real measuring sticks. Those 3 teams are bad, real bad.
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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MAn. Bradford has like 5 yards per pass, more ints than picks, sub 60% completion percentage.

The fellatio for young QBs that play below average instead of terrible is ridiculous on this site.

If a rookie QB comes in and completes more than 50% of his passes, he's Peyton MAnning, every year.
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fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
Where did I ever mention that Clausen didn't show promise, or the stat sheet, or any of the other useless points you brought up? Where did I even act like I saw the game, or that I even commented on what happened in the game? way to jump to conclusions to be a homer as fast as you can and bring up irrelevant points to things I never even came close to mentioning.
So you're getting angry because I said it's silly to comment on how he looked without seeing the game?

Relax, I'm not attacking you or your analysis, it was more directed at the fact that the perceived strengths of the team have failed at this point in the season. Which is having a massive impact.



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Yea, because the Rams O-line is 10x better then the Panthers line right? Don't forget people were saying Clausen>Bradford and that they were in the same class, but a good QB makes a bad O-line better. The Rams are terrible in pass blocking, and run blocking.
I agree Roethlisberger and Rogers have both made their lines look worse holding on to the ball too long and Moore did the same thing to the Panthers' line. Sure the Panthers line is better than the Rams' but right now the right side needs Otah back if it's going to return to form.

Any line missing it's right side starters from last year is going to have some inconsistency early in the season. In fact, Clausen was sacked once yesterday and that's when Crocker came flying in unblocked on a blitz. The previous two weeks, moore's indecision caused 4 per game.

I know a QB makes an offensive line look better, I saw a huge difference when the QB makes a read and passes the ball instead of getting happy feet. Clausen made the line look a world better.



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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
Ah yes, the ol' "well Peyton Manning sucked as a rookie and look how he turned out" argument, we hear that every single year, about every single rookie QB, so that's nothing new.
DeAngelo Williams sucked for 2 years too, Sanchez looked pretty terrible last year, Matt Ryan seemed to regress his second year, Mario Williams didn't light it up as a rookie, the majority of players take time, that was my point. It doesn't matter how bad a rookie looks on the stat sheet early on in their career regardless of position it matters what you can see. That's the point I was trying to make. I didn't exactly go godwin with it.

I'm sorry for pointing out the obvious it wasn't necessarily directed just at you.

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Once again, where did I once mention how bad Clausen looked, played, or will be in my post? I'd love to hear what you come up with because I never did.
I perceived that you were saying that because Bradford's situation is worse and he performed better than Clausen did yesterday stat wise that it's a foregone conclusion Clausen won't develop as armageddon and Brodeur were so quick to declare Bradford the best QB from the class. If my perception was wrong, I wholeheartedly apologise for jumping to unfair conclusions.

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I responded to people talking so much about how all of a sudden Carolina is such a "difficult situation" for Clausen to step into. Oh yea what a poor guy. If only he had 1 above average RB to hand off too, because most QB's can do much much better then having Deangelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart.
I'm not saying he doesn't have it easier than some walk into, but take into account that the right hand side of his line, what was the bull dozer side is missing, he's got rookies as his wide receivers outside of smith and he's facing a stacked box it's not as great a situation as it appeared on the surface.

With the line and the backs it was natural to assume that the Panthers could run on anyone, arrogant, homerish, whatever, it wasn't exactly an inaccurate assessment based on the last two seasons. Bad Play calling, bad execution on the line has prevented that from happening, when it comes time to pass, play calling keeping the backs and tight ends into block instead of using them as receivers where they'd be better served has forced Gettis a late pick and LaFell and dinged up 3rd rounder into the roll opposite a double covered Smith. Even Ronde Barber said "there's not much outside of Smith". They're just too inexperienced and that's causing some issues on the drives.

The way the team is built by Fox and Hurney this year is failing, Richardson refused to open the cheque book and we dumped our veterans. What more do you want me to say? What should be happening isn't.


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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
The irony of it all is you will hype up any Carolina player, to the max, even when he doesn't deserve it. But now to keep Clausen from getting trashed, all of a sudden your going to trash any and every Panther because they all just make him look bad.
I'll hype any player if I think they're going to be good, I'm an optimist. I'll openly and freely admit when I'm wrong. I was wrong about Delhomme, I was wrong about Moore and I was wrong about the ability of the defense to cover the mistakes of the offense this year. The reason why I'm defending Clausen is because when I hated the pick I went back and watched his games at ND, anything I could acquire and I grew to like it, yesterday I saw a lot of promise, more than I've seen from anyone to play the position for Carolina.

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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
I commented on the surrounding pieces. If you want a QB to step into a better team/situation/supporting cast then the one Clausen came into, you'd have to expect a playoff team to trade up, draft a QB in the top 10, and sit him 2-3 years until you filled every piece on the team in the process.
See above, the pieces on paper look good based on the past two years, but for a reason I cannot quantify they're not playing well. I'm not saying they magically suck, quite the opposite, just that they're not playing well. Which is why I mentioned the issues with the line and the play calling. Good pieces don't mean much if they're playing badly.

I think part of it has to do with coaching, bad camp for key guys and lack of chemistry. It sucks but the pieces around Clausen while better on paper than Bradfords aren't playing like it.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
MAn. Bradford has like 5 yards per pass, more ints than picks, sub 60% completion percentage.

The fellatio for young QBs that play below average instead of terrible is ridiculous on this site.

If a rookie QB comes in and completes more than 50% of his passes, he's Peyton MAnning, every year.


Stats aren't everything. You are discounting his leadership and poise. The kid has the "it" factor.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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Jeez njx, completely dodging the point that you have sand paper tampons.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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ah, the always brilliant 'ad hom attack in place of saying anything substantive, or admitting that i'm playing the victim because i'm incapable of doing anything else.' nice work.



and SO many people made conclusions. so no, awesome work. thanks for the input. maybe you can add on another few pages about how we should stop talking so much **** about the panthers. i mean, you might as well point it out, even though it hasn't happened.



yippee.
You're crawling up my ass about ad hom attacks then in the very next paragraph go on about how I'm going insane over non-existent conclusions, two of which are abundantly clear on the same page, the third for which I apologised in my post...

What more do you want, I apologise to the person whose post I misinterpreted and rebutted the two that weren't really open to interpretation?

Just looking to but heads today huh.
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Just heard on NFLN that Matt Moore was named the starter for next week.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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Just heard on NFLN that Matt Moore was named the starter for next week.
I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing for the niners.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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The Panthers are going to be so screwed up....Unless Moore plays well enough to take them out of the top 5 or so draft picks, they're not going to know what they really have in Clausen in order to decide whether or not to take one of the top QBs if available. I don't like it.....

I think the Panthers really should stick with Clausen all year and the Browns with McCoy. Both are bad teams who need to see what they have at QB so they can decide whether to go after someone new or not.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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Clausen is terrible, they know what they have, that's why he's sitting.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Clausen is terrible, they know what they have, that's why he's sitting.
I'd still give him another week or two, but I pretty much agree.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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I think the Panthers really should stick with Clausen all year and the Browns with McCoy. Both are bad teams who need to see what they have at QB so they can decide whether to go after someone new or not.
Agreed. If they show you something you give them another season. If not, then they can join the Luck, Locker and Mallet sweepstakes.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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The Panthers are going to be so screwed up....Unless Moore plays well enough to take them out of the top 5 or so draft picks, they're not going to know what they really have in Clausen in order to decide whether or not to take one of the top QBs if available. I don't like it.....

I think the Panthers really should stick with Clausen all year and the Browns with McCoy. Both are bad teams who need to see what they have at QB so they can decide whether to go after someone new or not.
I completely agree. The only sliver of a chance either has to keep their job is if Clausen or McCoy shows a ton of progress and looks on the way to stardom. An organization would be hesitant to fire a coach who has made great improvement with a rookie QB. Winning a game or two more with a mediocre QB isn't going to save them.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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I think the problem here is that McCoy actually showed something against the best defense in the NFL, and Clausen has looked like ****.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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Both McCoy and Clausen have been working with a lot of garbage too. The Panthers especially, should have a good run game but they get behind so quickly, they have to throw it and the Panthers just have nothing at WR or TE to help him out.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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Colt McCoy would look like Peyton Manning if he had Deangelo Williams and Steve Smith.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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Colt McCoy would make Peyton Manning look like Jimmy Clausen if he had Deangelo Williams and Steve Smith.
I think this is better.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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I think this is better.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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so clausen is the new brady quinn? i haven't been able to watch a panthers game... well, at all this season. is this the start to another 3 years of 'it's not that notre dame qb X sucks, it's that he wasn't given enough chances'?
I think people will learn from Brady Quinn's total ineptitude.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Clausen hasn't played as poorly as people are making it out to be. He hasn't been good, but with the pass rush that is coming through, he's had a few solid games.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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yeah, I think he actually played pretty well against my saints
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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yeah, I think he actually played pretty well against my saints
To put it in perspective he didnt play better than max hall did against us though
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Old 10-18-2010, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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To put it in perspective he didnt play better than max hall did against us though
So you can beat Peyton Manning, Brett Favre and Kurt Warner to win a Superbowl, but you'll just be damned vs. those rookie QBs eh?
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Old 10-18-2010, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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so clausen is the new brady quinn? i haven't been able to watch a panthers game... well, at all this season. is this the start to another 3 years of 'it's not that notre dame qb X sucks, it's that he wasn't given enough chances'?
Stop hating. Real weapons at WR would be able to catch balls thrown 5 feet over their head in the flat.
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do i tell you when to flip the burger?
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