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Old 10-18-2010, 03:58 PM    (permalink
Macarthur
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I meant in the running game. There were no running lanes at all. The word "destroyed" is just fine to use in this regard. Where were the holes?
3.4 yards per rush is not good, but I just wouldn't use the term 'destroyed'.

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But the passing game wasnt all that much better. The stats dont paint an accurate picture in this game. We threw 17 screens or swing passes. 10 to a wide open, uncovered Felix Jones. We rarely tried to throw down field, most of the playcalling was designed to be short. The gameplan was as such, because there was no confidence for them to hold up against a much better defensive line. And when we rarely did attempt to throw down field, the O-Line were being bull rushed into the pocket, collapsing it. Romo had to take off several times.
The gameplan was to protect the OL; no doubt. Let's not forget that had Miles not made a stupid push off penalty, we got 60+ yards on that one play. That puts our yardage close to 400.

Frankly, I didn't have many issues with Garrett's game plan. I think they executed it fairly well with the obvious exception of the turnovers and penalties. I didn't mind going for that pass on 3rd and 1 that got picked off. I didn't like that play, but I didn't mind trying to catch them off guard there.

Again, I'm not saying they were great, but given the environment and the game plan, I thought they did okay. Minn didn't have a sack; I know Tony's elusiveness helped that.

If you had told me before the game that Kosier would go out and they would have over 300 yards and no sacks, I think most of us would have been okay with that.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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I really dont know what to tell you guys...re-watch these games if you have to. There were no running lanes. Give me any back on our team or in the league, they're not going to be successful in this game.
It's not just you guys. Our OL blocking has declined as well. There is a huge reason why Jacobs lost his spot. He needs perfect pristine blocking to get his 5 yards a carry. If not, then he is ineffective. The key is have an RB who can make stuff happen where there are no holes. That's what we are basically doing now. We are at the point where we run a play, and say Bradshaw make something happen, even if the play is dead.

That's what you need your RBs or one of them to do, especially if there is no run blocking. Just make something happen out of nothing.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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3.4 yards per rush is not good, but I just wouldn't use the term 'destroyed'.



The gameplan was to protect the OL; no doubt. Let's not forget that had Miles not made a stupid push off penalty, we got 60+ yards on that one play. That puts our yardage close to 400.

Frankly, I didn't have many issues with Garrett's game plan. I think they executed it fairly well with the obvious exception of the turnovers and penalties. I didn't mind going for that pass on 3rd and 1 that got picked off. I didn't like that play, but I didn't mind trying to catch them off guard there.

Again, I'm not saying they were great, but given the environment and the game plan, I thought they did okay. Minn didn't have a sack; I know Tony's elusiveness helped that.

If you had told me before the game that Kosier would go out and they would have over 300 yards and no sacks, I think most of us would have been okay with that.
That push off was the only reason Miles was even open, so lets not even count that.

A 300 yard game is nothing spectacular. That's essentially what the Vikes give up every game. And Romo normally can get that by himself. haha. And they completely shut down the run...without Romo's runs, the backs only averaged a good 2.6 yards per carry.

But, Garrett's game plan was horrendous. Seriously. 17 screens/swing passes? As Bob Sturm pointed out...the guy conceded to the Vikes D-Line before the game even started. The playcalling was hilariously bad. I've never in my life seen a pro team call that many screens and swings. It was embarassing. Yeah, there were no sacks...but there arent going to be many when you keep throwing screens. You just bait the o-line in and dump it off, same with those swing passes...they're quick throws. Not bad ideas to off-set an over eager defense and bad O-line...but you know, it's not going to continue to work when you call these plays a hundred times over. Garrett was over protective of the O-line. Sure, we more than likely would have given up some sacks and Free was getting push back fairly far on real drop backs, but we should have taken some real shots, against a banged up secondary. This type of timid playcalling wasnt exactly helping us, either. We dont even have a real offensive identity with Garrett. But in his defense, at least, and I rarely defend the guy. The offensive line largely hinders what he can do sometimes.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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It's not just you guys. Our OL blocking has declined as well. There is a huge reason why Jacobs lost his spot. He needs perfect pristine blocking to get his 5 yards a carry. If not, then he is ineffective. The key is have an RB who can make stuff happen where there are no holes. That's what we are basically doing now. We are at the point where we run a play, and say Bradshaw make something happen, even if the play is dead.

That's what you need your RBs or one of them to do, especially if there is no run blocking. Just make something happen out of nothing.
There is a difference between your run blocking and our run blocking. Even a scrub like Jacobs is averaging 4.6 per. Our backs are having problems even getting out of the backfield. Kosier is always hurt, Gurode has regressed, and Davis is done. There is only so much one can do. We all have seen what Felix can do with huge holes and smaller holes, a like. But the guy was getting gang tackled as soon as he started running. On running plays yesterday, he wasn't even getting an opportunity to make people miss. So I dont know what people expect him to do. Juke out 3 oncoming defenders 1 yard pass the line of scrimmage? The Vikes clogged everything up yesterday.

Look no further than the Titans game to see what Felix can do with a little running room. You just cant expect huge games every week...especially with the o-line we're sporting. I just think it's funny that people keep yelling for the big play...when we cant even do the simple things to get him in space that we did last year. Dallas cannot even pull their guards correctly anymore.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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The Vikes D-Line completely destroyed our offensive line. I honestly dont know what you'd want Felix or Barber to do here. Choice wouldnt have done any better, AD wouldnt have done any better. They have one of the best D-Lines in the league, and we have a ****** offensive line, with three banged up interior lineman. It was a no win situation on the ground. And for the RBs, it was like running into a brick wall. It was a rare moment when our RBs got to the second level. Once again, our line was being killed at the point of attack. If you cant see that, you need glasses good sir. We have plenty of talent at RB, but without consistent run blocking, they're not going to do ****. I dont care who the back is. The line needs to be blown up.

And Roy is untradeable, due to that contract. He's playing well, but no one would take him at that price. It's a rare trade that you'd find any real help at O-Line or S at the deadline anyway.
I don't know if Roy is definitely untradeable. I don't know how the NFL works, but can Jerry agree to pay partial of his guaranteed money? Also, how is the money spread out? I'm assuming, the longer he's with us, the more that money is paid out to him. So that means, if we trade him later in the season then the team trading for him wouldn't have to pay him as much? The amount could be much more palatable, if that's the case. Make sense?
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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I still want to believe that if Felix loses weight then maybe he'll regain some of what he lost. But let's not deny...Felix was put in space and he did nothing.

BTW, I was not praising him after the TEN game either. So I haven't gone hot and cold on him yet. I'm not saying he's done either. I just want him fixed. Yes, part of it is the O-Line's fault, but you can't JUST blame them.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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I dont want it to come off as me making excuses...I def. think Felix should have made a little more of his receptions, as I said earlier. But I dont see how you can hate on him for not running well yesterday. Really...give me a break on that one. How many times did he even reach the LBs? Not many. There was nothing there all day. Brick freaking wall.

As for something else...

Looks like Miles' leap frog wasnt the penalty...it was Roy and Sam putting up the hook em horns at the same time? WTF is this ****? Wade said a ref told him Miles drew the flag. But the league told him that it was on Hurd/Williams today. Seems like they were just looking to penalize us again. Jesus. And the first one shouldnt have even been a penalty, either.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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There is a difference between your run blocking and our run blocking. Even a scrub like Jacobs is averaging 4.6 per. Our backs are having problems even getting out of the backfield. Kosier is always hurt, Gurode has regressed, and Davis is done. There is only so much one can do. We all have seen what Felix can do with huge holes and smaller holes, a like. But the guy was getting gang tackled as soon as he started running. On running plays yesterday, he wasn't even getting an opportunity to make people miss. So I dont know what people expect him to do. Juke out 3 oncoming defenders 1 yard pass the line of scrimmage? The Vikes clogged everything up yesterday.

Look no further than the Titans game to see what Felix can do with a little running room. You just cant expect huge games every week...especially with the o-line we're sporting. I just think it's funny that people keep yelling for the big play...when we cant even do the simple things to get him in space that we did last year. Dallas cannot even pull their guards correctly anymore.

Actually there isn't. We replaced our FB with a TE basically. Now we can actually do more things with Bear P. Jacobs is benefiting from Bradshaw and I hate that comment more than anything. But try running around chasing a rabbit and then have a fresher Jacobs. That's something that's helping him big time. I am not a fan of him, but I wouldn't call him a scrub. He is fresh and that's all the difference. No wear and tear because Bradshaw is holding down the fort.

You guys need to sack up and establish the run. An elite TE, 2 good rbs, and supposedly a talented OL can't open up a hole? They should be all kicked in the nuts. Get an RB who can run and make things happen on his own. If you watch our games, you will see Bradshaw getting owned couple years in the backfield, before putting it on his shoulder and doing his own thing. Find an RB like that. Screw it! If they cant block then make it on your own skill set.

Your issues are exactly like ours. Watch the bears game and see all game long people were in the backfield from Peppers to Harris to Brian U. Bradshaw is basically doing it on his own. So Jones is hit in the backfield. Good, now break that tackle, and find another hole or create something backside. Do that then! That's exactly what we are doing. It's musical OL with us. And we had no center! We are running around with O'hara! Be creative in your formations. We signed Andrews and put him in the TE spot. So we are basically code red situation and tossing in everyone trying to do well and even it's on Bradshaw to get something started.

That's what you need. You need a back who can create something out of nothing or start changing formations and personnel.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:55 PM    (permalink
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I dont want it to come off as me making excuses...I def. think Felix should have made a little more of his receptions, as I said earlier. But I dont see how you can hate on him for not running well yesterday. Really...give me a break on that one. How many times did he even reach the LBs? Not many. There was nothing there all day. Brick freaking wall.

As for something else...

Looks like Miles' leap frog wasnt the penalty...it was Roy and Sam putting up the hook em horns at the same time? WTF is this ****? Wade said a ref told him Miles drew the flag. But the league told him that it was on Hurd/Williams today. Seems like they were just looking to penalize us again. Jesus. And the first one shouldnt have even been a penalty, either.
Yeah, what you'll start to see more too now is that refs will start to give us less of a break. Once you build a reputation as a highly penalized team, then refs make your lives a living nightmare. They call stuff that is marginal, but you get called because... hey... you're one of those highly penalized teams the league knows you as.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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Actually there isn't. We replaced our FB with a TE basically. Now we can actually do more things with Bear P. Jacobs is benefiting from Bradshaw and I hate that comment more than anything. But try running around chasing a rabbit and then have a fresher Jacobs. That's something that's helping him big time. I am not a fan of him, but I wouldn't call him a scrub. He is fresh and that's all the difference. No wear and tear because Bradshaw is holding down the fort.

You guys need to sack up and establish the run. An elite TE, 2 good rbs, and supposedly a talented OL can't open up a hole? They should be all kicked in the nuts. Get an RB who can run and make things happen on his own. If you watch our games, you will see Bradshaw getting owned couple years in the backfield, before putting it on his shoulder and doing his own thing. Find an RB like that. Screw it! If they cant block then make it on your own skill set.

Your issues are exactly like ours. Watch the bears game and see all game long people were in the backfield from Peppers to Harris to Brian U. Bradshaw is basically doing it on his own. So Jones is hit in the backfield. Good, now break that tackle, and find another hole or create something backside. Do that then! That's exactly what we are doing. It's musical OL with us. And we had no center! We are running around with O'hara! Be creative in your formations. We signed Andrews and put him in the TE spot. So we are basically code red situation and tossing in everyone trying to do well and even it's on Bradshaw to get something started.

That's what you need. You need a back who can create something out of nothing or start changing formations and personnel.
We need to play Tashard Choice more. That is one of the few things we can do to fix our situation that I pointed out earlier.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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Actually there isn't. We replaced our FB with a TE basically. Now we can actually do more things with Bear P. Jacobs is benefiting from Bradshaw and I hate that comment more than anything. But try running around chasing a rabbit and then have a fresher Jacobs. That's something that's helping him big time. I am not a fan of him, but I wouldn't call him a scrub. He is fresh and that's all the difference. No wear and tear because Bradshaw is holding down the fort.

You guys need to sack up and establish the run. An elite TE, 2 good rbs, and supposedly a talented OL can't open up a hole? They should be all kicked in the nuts. Get an RB who can run and make things happen on his own. If you watch our games, you will see Bradshaw getting owned couple years in the backfield, before putting it on his shoulder and doing his own thing. Find an RB like that. Screw it! If they cant block then make it on your own skill set.

Your issues are exactly like ours. Watch the bears game and see all game long people were in the backfield from Peppers to Harris to Brian U. Bradshaw is basically doing it on his own. So Jones is hit in the backfield. Good, now break that tackle, and find another hole or create something backside. Do that then! That's exactly what we are doing. It's musical OL with us. And we had no center! We are running around with O'hara! Be creative in your formations. We signed Andrews and put him in the TE spot. So we are basically code red situation and tossing in everyone trying to do well and even it's on Bradshaw to get something started.

That's what you need. You need a back who can create something out of nothing or start changing formations and personnel.
Easier said then done. Our guys are getting beat consistently...you shouldnt even be asking your back to break multiple tackles in the backfield. If this is happening, your RB is the least of your problems. And it is happening.

And good luck, trying to get Garrett to change anything for the better. We barely even run out of power run formations anymore. We see the double TEs in the running game less and less. I'd love to run out of single WR/Double TE looks, but it aint happening all that much. And what happened to all the presnap motion? It's all but gone. Things we used to do, either arent being used or dont work anymore, because the O-Line has regressed immensely. And Garrett aint much for making adjustments.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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That push off was the only reason Miles was even open, so lets not even count that.

A 300 yard game is nothing spectacular. That's essentially what the Vikes give up every game. And Romo normally can get that by himself. haha. And they completely shut down the run...without Romo's runs, the backs only averaged a good 2.6 yards per carry.

But, Garrett's game plan was horrendous. Seriously. 17 screens/swing passes? As Bob Sturm pointed out...the guy conceded to the Vikes D-Line before the game even started. The playcalling was hilariously bad. I've never in my life seen a pro team call that many screens and swings. It was embarassing. Yeah, there were no sacks...but there arent going to be many when you keep throwing screens. You just bait the o-line in and dump it off, same with those swing passes...they're quick throws. Not bad ideas to off-set an over eager defense and bad O-line...but you know, it's not going to continue to work when you call these plays a hundred times over. Garrett was over protective of the O-line. Sure, we more than likely would have given up some sacks and Free was getting push back fairly far on real drop backs, but we should have taken some real shots, against a banged up secondary. This type of timid playcalling wasnt exactly helping us, either. We dont even have a real offensive identity with Garrett. But in his defense, at least, and I rarely defend the guy. The offensive line largely hinders what he can do sometimes.
I disagree on Miles. If you look at the DBs position, I think Miles already had the post open. All he had to do was drive hard to the post and he's open. Now, he might not have scored, but they would have been able to complete that pass.

As for the 300 yards, I think gaining 300 yards is still a pretty decent benchmark.

I agree that the RBs didn't do much, but we'll just have to agree to disagree with the game plan. I think Garrett knew that Romo would get killed if they went in with the normal game plan of throwing the ball 35-40 times.

And how often have we killed Garrett for not getting Felix the ball out into space? I think that's what he was trying to do. Felix looks a little top heavy to me and if I have to watch Barber go through the line and trip with no one around him again, I'm going to puke.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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What does Wade Phillips have to do to lose his job haha.

He has officially entered the norv zone
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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I disagree on Miles. If you look at the DBs position, I think Miles already had the post open. All he had to do was drive hard to the post and he's open. Now, he might not have scored, but they would have been able to complete that pass.

As for the 300 yards, I think gaining 300 yards is still a pretty decent benchmark.

I agree that the RBs didn't do much, but we'll just have to agree to disagree with the game plan. I think Garrett knew that Romo would get killed if they went in with the normal game plan of throwing the ball 35-40 times.
Well yeah, Miles could have been open...but he stupidly pushed off for no reason, before he broke. I love Miles, but he commits some of the stupidest penalties. He's pretty heavily penalized for a WR. Still wouldnt trade him for the world...I just wish he'd learn to block better.

And I have no problem...not throwing 40 or so times. The problem, was the lack of shots down the field, or I dont know, "real" passing plays. lol. 53% of our 32 passing attempts were screens or swing passes, how's that for a stat? That's not good.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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Easier said then done. Our guys are getting beat consistently...you shouldnt even be asking your back to break multiple tackles in the backfield. If this is happening, your RB is the least of your problems. And it is happening.

And good luck, trying to get Garrett to change anything for the better. We barely even run out of power run formations anymore. We see the double TEs in the running game less and less. I'd love to run out of single WR/Double TE looks, but it aint happening all that much. And what happened to all the presnap motion? It's all but gone. Things we used to do, either arent being used or dont work anymore, because the O-Line has regressed immensely. And Garrett aint much for making adjustments.
You're right you shouldn't ask that for any back. But then again, that's the reality of the situation. So you're going to have to make due. In the pre season we had our RG, center, LG and RT having issues. Now we have people back but not 100%. O'hara came back, first time, this past game. But this OL isn't 2007, or 2008. Factor in our changed offense and now it screwed with our running concepts. So what do you do?

You can change formations.. More I formations. Basically install the whole family of I in the game plan.

Personnel changes in creative ways. How good is your FO at identifying personnel?

We had to sign Andrews who was an all pro and one of the best guards in the NFL. We developed him and molded him to play both OT positions and LG just in case. We took our RT back up Koets and he had to learn center along with our LG Rich S. So he is the 3rd backup center. So you see the trend is for versatility.

Can your OL people play other positions? Have they? Are you guys good at scouting the free agents or cut people for talent? We just got a cast off with great potential. Just release Shane G. who kicked for Tynes.

We basically are changing and still it's a VERY tough fight. If Jacobs started for us this year. We'd be losing yards because he'd be getting decked in the backfield. If there is any good thing to this it's:

Versatility of our OL
Personnel ( TE moved to FB while Madison H is hurt. Signing Andrews and sticking him as a 2nd TE.)
Formations:

1 Wide and rest TE and wings. We haven't done that since the Plax and Toomer days. And still we barely get a push! That's how much we are struggling.


So lucky for us Bradshaw has the skill set of an elite RB, with the main feature of creating positive runs out of nothing. That's our offensive MVP thus far.. Bradshaw. Without him, we'd be horrible at running the ball.

Our two teams are alike, except for the RB position. We do have a better front office I feel. That's debatable I guess. I do like the experience of Gilbride AND Coughlin. They both have decades of experience over Jason G. It helps our HC is an offensive coach while yours is not.

So Tubby has to really trust Jason G, while Coughlin can add input based on experience. In the end however, it comes down to making positive runs out of nothing. It's not fair to ask an RB to do that, but it's the reality of the situation for us. We need to do that to be successful. You guys need to scour the league for a back like that, OR replace the whole damn offensive line, or get a new OC. All of the above perhaps...
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Felix is the least of my worries, Boss. As is Choice, Barber's pretty shot, but great in short yardage, as he proved this week. But yeah, I'll gladly take a new O-Line or Coordinator. I wish it was that easy to accomplish. Might take a while. haha.

As for the comparability between our O-Lines. I dont see it still. Bradshaw may not be running through truck sized holes, but I've seen him get more space than we've had this year. And you give a guy like that a little space, he's going to make something good happen, just like Felix or Tashard. Bradshaw is a very good back, but he's not doing everything by himself, a great deal...yes. But he's getting a little help, at the very least. There were some big ole holes this week...granted, it was the Lions. haha. But yeah, maybe you'll see how bad it can get for us against tough run defenses this week, since you'll be playing us. Hopefully not, though.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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Felix is the least of my worries, Boss. As is Choice, Barber's pretty shot, but great in short yardage, as he proved this week. But yeah, I'll gladly take a new O-Line or Coordinator. I wish it was that easy to accomplish. Might take a while. haha.

As for the comparability between our O-Lines. I dont see it still. Bradshaw may not be running through truck sized holes, but I've seen him get more space than we've had this year. And you give a guy like that a little space, he's going to make something good happen, just like Felix or Tashard. Bradshaw is a very good back, but he's not doing everything by himself, a great deal...yes. But he's getting a little help, at the very least. There were some big ole holes this week...granted, it was the Lions. haha. But yeah, maybe you'll see how bad it can get for us against tough run defenses this week, since you'll be playing us. Hopefully not, though.
Haha. Barber is shot, but Felix gets a pass. I get the bias, but you don't even judge Barber correctly. Even when I started pointing out how he runs North-South you had to reneg. Felix wishes he had the heart that Barber has when he's carrying the ball.
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Old 10-18-2010, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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Haha. Barber is shot, but Felix gets a pass. I get the bias, but you don't even judge Barber correctly. Even when I started pointing out how he runs North-South you had to reneg. Felix wishes he had the heart that Barber has when he's carrying the ball.
ugh. Barber is done. He's good for short yardage situation and the goal line, and that's where he has been spending his time the last two weeks. He's good in that role. I meant done as an every down type of back...he shouldnt be seeing the bulk of the carries. I love him in a short yardage role. If you havent noticed, I included Barber's name when talking about the run blocking all year. Neither guy has much of anywhere to run. I've maintained that fact all year. But Barber is nothing like he was...everyone knows this. And as I've said a billion times, Barber has been bouncing runs outside forever...he even did yesterday, once or twice and gained nothing on each of them. He loves going outside, he just doesnt have the speed out there anymore and for whatever reason, he keeps falling on his face a lot this season. Losing his footing for whatever reason.

Reneg? The guy does it all the time...I said he doesnt do it on every play, D. But he does it a lot. I hate being that guy...but if you just watch the games, you'd see it. I know you're watching, so it shouldnt be hard to see him do it. And Barber has been known to do this for years. Like even through the media...talked about many a times. It's not a well kept secret or fallacy, that he's liked to bounce it outside in his career. And again, he used to be able to do it with regularity.

As for when Felix is running...the guy fought hard yesterday. He's no stranger to barrelling into defenders these days. He doesnt have Marion's power, but Felix def. runs with heart and def. loves the game a great deal. I love the attitude both play with. Barber just has less tread on those tires now. I didnt even mean to be hard on Marion with that previous comment...I def. like him better in his current role the last few weeks. I was just talking more about the future going forward with Felix and Choice.
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Felix is the least of my worries, Boss. As is Choice, Barber's pretty shot, but great in short yardage, as he proved this week. But yeah, I'll gladly take a new O-Line or Coordinator. I wish it was that easy to accomplish. Might take a while. haha.

As for the comparability between our O-Lines. I dont see it still. Bradshaw may not be running through truck sized holes, but I've seen him get more space than we've had this year. And you give a guy like that a little space, he's going to make something good happen, just like Felix or Tashard. Bradshaw is a very good back, but he's not doing everything by himself, a great deal...yes. But he's getting a little help, at the very least. There were some big ole holes this week...granted, it was the Lions. haha. But yeah, maybe you'll see how bad it can get for us against tough run defenses this week, since you'll be playing us. Hopefully not, though.


Yea I knew Bradshaw could own the Lions. We had a great game running the ball, however teams like bears, colts and Titans proved to be tougher. Bradshaw had to do most of the work.

It's so bad that even the players and coaches talk about why bradshaw is in there and how his skill set is perfect for this. It's pretty much like, "hey we are not as good, so we toss him in there, and he makes everything fine."

I hope bradshaw can take off this week. I know not a lot of people seen him play, so from our perspective hopefully you can see his skills.
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Old 10-18-2010, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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As for something else...

Looks like Miles' leap frog wasnt the penalty...it was Roy and Sam putting up the hook em horns at the same time? WTF is this ****? Wade said a ref told him Miles drew the flag. But the league told him that it was on Hurd/Williams today. Seems like they were just looking to penalize us again. Jesus. And the first one shouldnt have even been a penalty, either.

If this is true, that's BS. This crap is getting out of hand.


And onto Felix Jones, ok you made me do it :)





Very first play, pause at :05 secs, there is a lineman 2 yards into the backfield, Felix barely even got the handoff without a guy in his face. That qualifies as ****** blocking right? Of course, how do you let a guy 2 yards deep before the runner even takes 2 steps, yet Felix eludes the defender without him touching him.


Now the next cut he makes is in space but defenders were all around him, I haven't seen him make a cut that nice this entire season I'm sorry, but yes that does qualify as him being in space to make this cut, not the 1st one. He created the space on his own.



I won't deny that on alot of his highlights there were huge lanes, but I do disagree with the thought that he needs that space and those lanes to be there to be successful, though there isn't much to go off of from that season.




Now this is probably my favorite Felix Jones highlight ever in his entire career. He's made bigger, and longer plays, but this was our first pre-season game vs the Chargers after the 2008 draft, when we all knew he was special:






Now on the first play at :025 where are the lanes at? He was thrown a toss play and there was literally no hole, pause it if you don't believe me. He split 3 defenders and ran past a 4th, this year he's making that a solid gain and people are just saying "but there are no holes there".


Same goes for :45 secs, a swing pass, you can't tell me he didn't have this much room on none of those 10 passes Sunday. At :48 secs he has 4 Chargers around him about to make the tackle, and 2 others closing, make it 6 defenders forming a circle around him who could easily make the tackle, he blew past all 6(who all got within arms reach), out ran a 7th who came into play, and was a stiff arm away from breaking the tackle on the 8th guy.


Yes he was in space initially but it's not like he had picked up a ton of speed, he had only took a few steps before a guy was in his face, but have we seen this same open field agility this season? No, not even close.


I don't want to pull up a ton of plays or clips because I'm just not in the mood, but again i don't want to make it seem like I'm bashing him because I'm not, he did have a good game last week. What I'm saying is he is not the same explosive Felix Jones that we have seen previously, that doesn't mean he's trash. He's still our best RB, he's still very good and effective, but the big plays in limited touches are not there, and there IS something there.


I love Felix, he deserves to start and deserves to get his touches, and while I'm sure he'll have good games AND plays this year, I just don't see the same explosiveness, nor do I see the same lateral agility to blow by defenders as previous. There is no way he would have gotten 10 catches in 2008 in a game and not had a huge play, I don't care if it was against the Steelers.



I don't know how you can look at those plays, and tell me he's running the same, or that he needs a huge lane to run past everyone.
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Old 10-18-2010, 08:09 PM    (permalink
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If this is true, that's BS. This crap is getting out of hand.


And onto Felix Jones, ok you made me do it :)





Very first play, pause at :05 secs, there is a lineman 2 yards into the backfield, Felix barely even got the handoff without a guy in his face. That qualifies as ****** blocking right? Of course, how do you let a guy 2 yards deep before the runner even takes 2 steps, yet Felix eludes the defender without him touching him.


Now the next cut he makes is in space but defenders were all around him, I haven't seen him make a cut that nice this entire season I'm sorry, but yes that does qualify as him being in space to make this cut, not the 1st one. He created the space on his own.



I won't deny that on alot of his highlights there were huge lanes, but I do disagree with the thought that he needs that space and those lanes to be there to be successful, though there isn't much to go off of from that season.




Now this is probably my favorite Felix Jones highlight ever in his entire career. He's made bigger, and longer plays, but this was our first pre-season game vs the Chargers after the 2008 draft, when we all knew he was special:






Now on the first play at :025 where are the lanes at? He was thrown a toss play and there was literally no hole, pause it if you don't believe me. He split 3 defenders and ran past a 4th, this year he's making that a solid gain and people are just saying "but there are no holes there".


Same goes for :45 secs, a swing pass, you can't tell me he didn't have this much room on none of those 10 passes Sunday. At :48 secs he has 4 Chargers around him about to make the tackle, and 2 others closing, make it 6 defenders forming a circle around him who could easily make the tackle, he blew past all 6(who all got within arms reach), out ran a 7th who came into play, and was a stiff arm away from breaking the tackle on the 8th guy.


Yes he was in space initially but it's not like he had picked up a ton of speed, he had only took a few steps before a guy was in his face, but have we seen this same open field agility this season? No, not even close.


I don't want to pull up a ton of plays or clips because I'm just not in the mood, but again i don't want to make it seem like I'm bashing him because I'm not, he did have a good game last week. What I'm saying is he is not the same explosive Felix Jones that we have seen previously, that doesn't mean he's trash. He's still our best RB, he's still very good and effective, but the big plays in limited touches are not there, and there IS something there.


I love Felix, he deserves to start and deserves to get his touches, and while I'm sure he'll have good games AND plays this year, I just don't see the same explosiveness, nor do I see the same lateral agility to blow by defenders as previous. There is no way he would have gotten 10 catches in 2008 in a game and not had a huge play, I don't care if it was against the Steelers.



I don't know how you can look at those plays, and tell me he's running the same, or that he needs a huge lane to run past everyone.
Alright I'll play this game.

Run #1...that little chip by Anderson, was just enough to get Felix enough room. Today, he's seeing guys directly in his face right at the snap, there is a difference.

Run #2...something I've talked about all year. We cant seal the edge off like that anymore. Colombo pulls and makes a nice block. Have we been able to do that successfully at all this year? No. There was also pre-snap motion with Witten on that play. Something we've also seen a lot less of. That run has nothing to do with "the cut", he just rounds the edge. The blocking got him out in space and there was no one down field. Very good execution, Felix does the rest.

Run #3...Witten motion again. Big hole.

Run #4...Gorgeous blocking gets him to the next level.

etc...Huge holes throughout.

As for the preseason game...there is space, not much, but some and that's all he needs, and this is against backups, mind you. But anyway, Felix doesnt need a lot of space, but like every RB, he needs a little help. Just get him past the D-Line, at least. And he'll make good things happen, like so. He's done some of that this season.

Seriously...you've probably been looking at these clips for a while...does our line look even remotely close to what it looked like back then when run blocking? Hell no.

And I agree that I wish Felix would have done more with the receptions. He got tackled by some corners in the open field, but something needs to be said about their tackling and the repetitiveness of all those same exact throws. It's not going to be overly effective, if you keep calling it. They werent even buying it, by the end of the game.

How can I say Felix is still running the same? Did you not watch the Titans game? Looked like classic Felix all game. The speed, the quickness, the cuts, it all looked just fine.

http://prod.www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-g...es-34-yard-run

And it's a stupid play to bring up...but Felix looked like he shot out of a cannon on that last play of the game against Minny. He's still just as quick as ever if you get the guy some room.

Our run blocking is horrendous. It will probably run hot/cold all year. But I have no faith in them at all right now. Those holes you're seeing in those past videos are no longer there and there is no disputing that.

And as for the hook em horns celebration being the actual penalty. Yeah it was and it's complete BS.
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Old 10-18-2010, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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Robert Brewster was re-signed to our practice squad today, by the way. I just heard this.
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Old 10-18-2010, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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Seriously...you've probably been looking at these clips for a while...does our line look even remotely close to what it looked like back then when run blocking? Hell no.
I only looked at those plays for a few mins as I was making a post, my cpu is on wireless at my school so youtube videos have to load and takes too long to spend time trying to watch videos. I remembered the plays but wasn't looking at them long.


I agree on the plays with great blocking, which is why I left those out. Our line blocked better last year and he did have more lanes, my only point was that I felt he was still making something out of nothing which we aren't seeing. I don't think anyone can be honest with themselves and say out of all 10 of those receptions he was hit as soon as he caught the ball. You just said yourself he was wide open on a majority of those plays which we all know he doesn't need much space, just a little to make a big play happen. That's my point, but well just agree to disagree on this point.
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Old 10-18-2010, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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I agree...with agreeing to disagree. haha.

He wasnt tackled as soon as he got the ball...he gained an additional few yards on each. But the first few could have worked well, but after a while...they didnt bite on any of that junk. Vikes tackled very well, as well. Something our team isnt too hot at, most nights. My main beef right now, though...is the lack of running room, when he's on the ground.

Hopefully we can have some clear cut, consensus conclusions with a few more weeks. lol.

Anyway, didnt realize you were at school...what are you studying?
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Old 10-18-2010, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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ugh. Barber is done. He's good for short yardage situation and the goal line, and that's where he has been spending his time the last two weeks. He's good in that role. I meant done as an every down type of back...he shouldnt be seeing the bulk of the carries. I love him in a short yardage role. If you havent noticed, I included Barber's name when talking about the run blocking all year. Neither guy has much of anywhere to run. I've maintained that fact all year. But Barber is nothing like he was...everyone knows this. And as I've said a billion times, Barber has been bouncing runs outside forever...he even did yesterday, once or twice and gained nothing on each of them. He loves going outside, he just doesnt have the speed out there anymore and for whatever reason, he keeps falling on his face a lot this season. Losing his footing for whatever reason.

Reneg? The guy does it all the time...I said he doesnt do it on every play, D. But he does it a lot. I hate being that guy...but if you just watch the games, you'd see it. I know you're watching, so it shouldnt be hard to see him do it. And Barber has been known to do this for years. Like even through the media...talked about many a times. It's not a well kept secret or fallacy, that he's liked to bounce it outside in his career. And again, he used to be able to do it with regularity.

As for when Felix is running...the guy fought hard yesterday. He's no stranger to barrelling into defenders these days. He doesnt have Marion's power, but Felix def. runs with heart and def. loves the game a great deal. I love the attitude both play with. Barber just has less tread on those tires now. I didnt even mean to be hard on Marion with that previous comment...I def. like him better in his current role the last few weeks. I was just talking more about the future going forward with Felix and Choice.
Barber's speed was never a reason why he was good. His speed is not holding him back now. I know you want to think he's done, but he's not. Should he be the main ball carrier? That's a tricky statement. It depends on the game situation. I don't think you can go into the game with a predetermined amount of times you will run the ball with x RB. You go by the flow of the game. I will agree that Barber is a situational runner. That said, so is Felix. The only everydown back that we have is Choice. ...and I'll say it again. He needs to be featured A LOT more. He's a guy that can get tough yards despite holes not being there. His time is NOW. Period.

Felix has always been best as a situational rotation back. He was used properly at Arkansas. He was used properly the first couple years of his career. Problem is everyone wanted to see his best on every down, but now we're seeing... he's not like that on every down. He is still at best a situational rotation back. He needs fresh legs. He's not an every down back. You're not going to ask him to go straight up the field and expect him to drive the pile. However, that is Choice.
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