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Old 10-19-2010, 03:48 PM    (permalink
Job
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Originally Posted by killxswitch View Post
So at what point do these guys stop being up-and-coming QBs and instead become players not living up to their draft position? After this season?
This guy's brains have been spoiled by too much Peyton Manning.
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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This guy's brains have been spoiled by too much Peyton Manning.
tell me about it...
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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I feel like Flacco always has to do a LOT more to get teh same recognition as Ryan.

When both play equally, Flacco is a game manager, and Ryan is dominating.
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Its simple folks. MATTY ICE is way better. Better stats less weapons=Better QB.
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Young, Favre, Vick, Cutler, McNabb and Orton over Ryan? Please. Not if you want to win games in 2010. I won't bother with the lame arguments people will make for why any of those guys is better than Ryan right now. If you can't see Ryan is better, I can't help you.
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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Young, Favre, Vick, Cutler, McNabb and Orton over Ryan? Please. Not if you want to win games in 2010. I won't bother with the lame arguments people will make for why any of those guys is better than Ryan right now. If you can't see Ryan is better, I can't help you.
Or maybe they've seen the absolutely absurd amounts of receivers Ryan has missed this year along with his lack of ability to hit on big plays.
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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Or maybe they've seen the absolutely absurd amounts of receivers Ryan has missed this year along with his lack of ability to hit on big plays.
Yep, and all those other QBs are perfect. They never miss passes and hit 20 big plays per game.
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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Or maybe they've seen the absolutely absurd amounts of receivers Ryan has missed this year along with his lack of ability to hit on big plays.
Ryan has not missed an absurd amount of open receivers. It seems like you are still reeling over the loss of Vick. The only deep pass I can honestly say Ryan ****** up bad this year is the one to Harry Douglas in overtime that should have ended the Saints game. For the most part he has had some throws on the money, alot of which were dropped. (ex: Tony G dropped ball that led to Philly pick)

Also, for all those touting Eli Manning as so much better at Matt Ryan at this point in his career, just at the stats. Eli Manning didn't have a QB rating over 80 until his FIFTH season as QB. Matt Ryan has never had a rating below 80 in his entire career. Even this season Manning is only like a point higher.

I honestly believe when I say this that Ryan will be an elite QB, and it's not far fetched at all to believe that he will be better than Manning in the future. He has been alot better than people are led to believe this season, but his last two games have been a little rough.
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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I feel like Flacco always has to do a LOT more to get teh same recognition as Ryan.

When both play equally, Flacco is a game manager, and Ryan is dominating.


I felt the same way, but I figurd it was my Ravens bias. Glad to see a Neutral fan think the same way.
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Old 10-19-2010, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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I feel like Flacco always has to do a LOT more to get teh same recognition as Ryan.

When both play equally, Flacco is a game manager, and Ryan is dominating.
This seems very true. Even in my mind just thinking about them, i see ryan as much more prototypical looking with great mechanics like tom brady. Flacco is so inconsistent play to play and game to game that it makes him seem like his success is an accident at times to those of us that dont see him particularly often. Add the 'big arm=no brains, just chucks it' stigma that surrounds guys like this when they come out (wrongfully sometimes, like in this case) which isnt accurate of him, its just that hes still progressing.

Cant really explain it, ryan just LOOKS the part more, think it influences people.

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Young, Favre, Vick, Cutler, McNabb and Orton over Ryan? Please. Not if you want to win games in 2010. I won't bother with the lame arguments people will make for why any of those guys is better than Ryan right now. If you can't see Ryan is better, I can't help you.
How is that not arguable? are you ******* kidding me? have you seen any/all of them play? pet peeve: i hate when people say 'i wont even argue it with you thats how wrong you are' when its very clear to everyone who isnt a homer that this is actually very arguable.

Mcnabb's team has been very inconsistent but hes played very well and looked like he is still every bit the QB he was in philly. he is at worst on Ryan's playing field, certainly arguable.

Cutler's line is horrendous, his coaching/playcalling is very spotty on a good day, and hes got average recievers. and hes still played fairly well this year though id say for him id take ryan over him. more safe and consistent.

Orton has been one of the best in the league this year. absolutely lights out. id take him over ryan everyday of the week

Vick looked really really good so far this year, definitely over ryan imo really fits in that offense well and just looks very solid and confident.

Favre has looked awful and like hes already quit on the team. yeah ryan everytime. and cause ryans not a douche. but mostly the first part.

Young: very tough for me, ive been believing in young this year and if you need a clutch play its tough to pick which guy cause young certainly has his moments too. id say its very tough call, guys in very similar situations. id say its a push, arguable either way.

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Yep, and all those other QBs are perfect. They never miss passes and hit 20 big plays per game.
yeah cause thats what he said. great way to not respond to his point though and make it seem like hes right and you couldnt think of a counterargument.
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Old 10-19-2010, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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Like I said, I'm not going to respond to every lame argument somemakes about why this or that QB is better. That just turns into a contest to see who can make stats say what they want.

And ATL's point was not worth a long argument over. Claiming that Ryan has missed receivers and not made big plays doesn't provide any evidence that any of those QBs is better.
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Old 10-19-2010, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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What's funny is, this is the first year I feel that Flacco has better weapons, and this is the first year I feel like Ryan is outperforming him so far.
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Old 10-19-2010, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan is a stud, the Falcons are going to be serious contenders for a while now and he is the main reason why. I've always liked Ryan but he looks like he is taking his game to a whole new level this season.
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Old 10-19-2010, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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Really? I don't see Matt Ryan taking his game to a new level at all. Granted he had a dreadful year last year and is performing much better this year, but I'm not seeing anything out of him this year that I didn't see in his rookie year.
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Old 10-19-2010, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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Really? I don't see Matt Ryan taking his game to a new level at all. Granted he had a dreadful year last year and is performing much better this year, but I'm not seeing anything out of him this year that I didn't see in his rookie year.
He had a great rookie year and went through a bit of a sophomore slump, but the Falcons keep finding ways to win games. He isn't putting up eye-popping stats, but he is certainly putting up respectable numbers and to me has improved. The team didn't play well against Philly and a lot of this may be because I am slightly a Ryan homer, but I think this is going to be his breakout type season and he could lead the Falcons to a run in the playoffs. His rookie year he played well but he was a rookie so nobody really expected a big run by Atlanta, last year Ryan struggled a bit, and this year he is performing very well and I think he and that team are in a great position to make a run in the NFC.

Flacco is a good young QB too, but I would take Ryan over him with the game on the line ten times out of ten.
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Old 10-19-2010, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan went 9-5 last year, through for 22 TDs and nearly 3,000 yards. It's a myth that Ryan was bad last year. You either didn't watch him or play too much fantasy football if you think he was terrible.
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Old 10-19-2010, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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He wasn't bad at all, it's just he didn't take the step a lot of people were expecting him to make.
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Old 10-19-2010, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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ryan has been pretty erratic with his accuracy this year. he's been high on his throws a lot of times. at first i thought it was cause he was throwing to small harry douglas but he overthrew tony gonzalez a couple times and has been bailed out by some amazing catches by roddy white as well. he's only sharp on third downs. it's SO weird.
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Old 10-19-2010, 08:46 PM    (permalink
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Ryan has not missed an absurd amount of open receivers. It seems like you are still reeling over the loss of Vick. The only deep pass I can honestly say Ryan ****** up bad this year is the one to Harry Douglas in overtime that should have ended the Saints game. For the most part he has had some throws on the money, alot of which were dropped. (ex: Tony G dropped ball that led to Philly pick)

Missing receivers doesn't always mean overthrowing them, even though he's done that quite a bit too. I'm sure you watched how on countless replays there was a WR running wide open and Matt could never find him. Now that's partially on Sam Baker being horrendous, but Matt sucks **** this year.


And I suppose I am still missing Vick, and that's because A. It'd be nice to have a good QB and B. He's the ************* man.
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Old 10-19-2010, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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I don't like it when people say stuff I don't agree with so I'm just gonna say you're WRONG and not back it up.

Nice.

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Old 10-19-2010, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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I think both Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco are basically your typical above-average quarterback - nothing more, nothing less. They're not elite, but they're not scrubs. They can potentially win a Super Bowl if they are given a solid running game and a good defense, but they won't carry a whole team like a Peyton Manning or a Drew Brees.

For instance, against the mediocre Eagles defense, a Peyton Manning or a Drew Brees would have lit them up like a Christmas tree. Matt Ryan, however, was merely decent with what he had to work with. Same goes for Joe Flacco against a terrible Pats defense.

Last edited by Morton : 10-19-2010 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Morton View Post
I think both Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco are basically your typical above-average quarterback - nothing more, nothing less. They're not elite, but they're not scrubs. They can potentially win a Super Bowl if they are given a solid running game and a good defense, but they won't carry a whole team like a Peyton Manning or a Drew Brees.
I think that is a decent assessment. They're not scrubs or busts. Somewhere along the line my argument apparently magically switched from "these guys aren't living up to their draft slot" to "I hate them and hope they DIE!!!!"

And yeah, if I picked a QB at #3 overall, or #18 overall and surrounded him with the most complete team in the NFL, I would expect more than slightly above average. Maybe Manning has clouded my judgment, but maybe not having a decent QB, EVER, has clouded the judgment of some others on this board.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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I do think that Flacco is hurt by not having a vertical threat considering his deep ball is one of his biggest strengths. Boldin, Mason, Housh, Heap they are all great possession receivers but they don't stretch it vertically. He might be underrated as a deep threat because he wasn't used that way in Arizona but Boldin should not be your deep threat, he doesn't have the speed for it. I don't know if Stallworth would have been that but he's out for the season, but I think Joe Flacco will take that next step once he gets a true vertical threat which will open things up further as well as a new OC as Cam Cameron is garbage right now with his run, run, pass, philosophy and inability to adjust his gameplan to the defense. Right now everything is about the run game, screens, and intermediate passes that defenses can sit down on the Ravens and play up on them. The defense needs to be stretched out more. They don't need a stud but just someone who gives the defense the threat of beating them deep. Also in terms of record the Ravens would be undefeated right now if they had the old Ravens defense. Yeah the offense stalled a bunch but their defense has really allowed teams to march up and down the field.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by killxswitch View Post
I think that is a decent assessment. They're not scrubs or busts. Somewhere along the line my argument apparently magically switched from "these guys aren't living up to their draft slot" to "I hate them and hope they DIE!!!!"

And yeah, if I picked a QB at #3 overall, or #18 overall and surrounded him with the most complete team in the NFL, I would expect more than slightly above average. Maybe Manning has clouded my judgment, but maybe not having a decent QB, EVER, has clouded the judgment of some others on this board.
Since that Bengals game Flacco has had a 103.6. So perhaps that game was the best thing that happened to him and he turned the corner after that. If he can keep that up he will be better then above average and should end up with a top 8 QB rating. Time will tell....





Also STRIP, Stallworth isnt out for the season. But Flacco deep ball accuracy has improved a lot from last season so I do see improvement from the years
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Old 10-19-2010, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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