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Old 10-22-2010, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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If Peterson is there, that'd be a boss pick. Prince might be palatable as well. However, I see Butler coming out of his struggles and becoming a damn good corner still.
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Old 10-22-2010, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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I could justify us taking either of those two, especially Peterson. We've taken a lot of corners, but we haven't taken any game changers at that position(or anywhere on defense for that matter).
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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Nick Fairley or Adrian Clayborn are my two current favorite players I want on NE with the Raiders pick. I could definitely go for a Patrick P or a Prince A, if available though. Both are legitimate shutdown corners.
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Old 10-24-2010, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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Fairley is interesting, but I'm starting to favor a Robert Quinn/JJ Watt first round with a Ryan Kerrigan/ Best Wide Receiver available second round.
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Old 10-24-2010, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by descendency View Post
Nick Fairley or Adrian Clayborn are my two current favorite players I want on NE with the Raiders pick. I could definitely go for a Patrick P or a Prince A, if available though. Both are legitimate shutdown corners.
Really impressed with Clayborn, to me he is by far the best of guys like Dareus, Quinn, Bowers... although those guys arent too shabby.
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Old 10-24-2010, 08:36 AM    (permalink
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Really impressed with Clayborn, to me he is by far the best of guys like Dareus, Quinn, Bowers... although those guys arent too shabby.
Clayborn could be the top end prospect, but he's more suited to a power end role in a 4-3 or maybe a one-gap role in a 3-4 defense (for a team like the Jets or Ravens, maybe.) New England's defensive linemen are expected to account for two gaps in the run game, and to try to command double teams so that our linebackers are free to roam around the field, making tackles and putting pressure on the quarterback. He's just not that great of a fit for the Patriots, and historically Belichick has been unwilling to change his defense to accommodate players who don't fit well into what's already there (see his historical unwillingness to draft a wide variety of skilled but undersized pass rushers.)

Bowers is another one-gap guy, so he probably won't be the pick either. Same could most likely be said for Allen Bailey, who fits much better into the defense of the Cowboys or Chargers than the Patriots. Marcel Dareus has got to be considered the front-runner for a 3-4 end in New England, assuming they have a top-ten draft pick. Otherwise, they could target a Heyward or Crick later on in the draft, who both have that height and length that Belichick found so appealing with Richard Seymour. If the team opts not to address the end position in the first round (entirely possible given the depth the team has already), they could potentially target someone like Christian Ballard later on.
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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Bowers would be an OLB for the Pats.
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Old 10-24-2010, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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Bowers would be an OLB for the Pats.
Honestly I don't see that at all. This guy is a defensive end in a 4-3 and a defensive end in a one-gap 3-4. There's not really any place for him in our defense.
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Old 10-24-2010, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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I actually disagree about Bowers. He came into this year in a lot better shape and condition and has cut his playing weight a bit. His quickness and lateral agility has improved this year.

What do the rest of you think about Watt? He seems to be the prototypical BB DE. Like his ability to handle the run better, but you lose something as a pass rusher. I actually think I like Watt a little bit better than Daerus right now just because of his length. He's not as stout or quick, but he uses his body so well and he's an excellent athlete in his own right.
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Old 11-17-2010, 01:35 AM    (permalink
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I think Watt could be a smart pick in the second round. I think there are too many 5-techniques this year to draft him much earlier.

It really depends on what the coaching staff thinks of Deaderick because I don't think they will look at him (Watt) as a nickel rusher, though he was impressive against OSU.

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Bowers would be an OLB for the Pats.
Bowers doesn't fit in NE's 34 defense or NE's nickel package. He might be able to play DT in the nickel, but he'll be gone way before that kind of specialized player is taken. His best fit is a 43 DE and someone in the top 10 will agree and probably take him as such.

---

Crick post-Suh doesn't impress me at all. I see a lot less from him.

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Same could most likely be said for Allen Bailey, who fits much better into the defense of the Cowboys or Chargers than the Patriots.
Bailey holds the point of attack, can bull rush anyone, has long arm and is a big guy. He'd be a good fit for either 34 defense. (either = 2 gap like us or 1 gap like dallas)

I've seen him play 2 gaps at Miami. I've seen him play UT, DE, and Rush Linebacker (yea, he played 7-tech in a 2 point stance a few plays). The kid improves every year. I really really think he could be a monster if Belichick can get a hold of him. He needs to work on his disengaging blockers to be more effective in a 2 gap system, but I don't see it as a huge problem. With his strength, he needs to just throw the blocker out of the way and swarm the ball carrier.

He's slowly becoming one of my favorite draft prospects even if I still think he needs some serious work on getting off the snap faster. But he plays faster now than he did last year and it's causing havoc.
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Old 11-17-2010, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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Honestly I don't see that at all. This guy is a defensive end in a 4-3 and a defensive end in a one-gap 3-4. There's not really any place for him in our defense.
He's not a DL in a 3-4 in any way. I'm not saying he'd be a fit at OLB or not for the Pats, but if they took him, that's where he'd play. Maybe he can be like Tamba Hali...
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:04 AM    (permalink
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After perusing internet sources for cap and contract info, I came to the following list of needs for NE in 2011. (obviously some can be met in FA, so don't think I am purely talking draft here)

1. Pass Rusher
I don't necessarily just mean an OLB either. I mean a 5-tech who can play UT in the nickel too. Our depth is just awful at pass rushing. Mike Wright went down and so did our pass rush in the nickel. We can't beat the Colts or anyone else consistently if we don't upgrade the pass rush. We need to shorten the amount of time QBs get to make throws on our putrid secondary.

2. Cornerback
Speaking of our putrid secondary, we need another cornerback. Sure, we get Leigh Bodden back, but can anyone in this group serious play nickel DB? I'd prefer not. Butler is just falling apart and Arrington and Wilhite just are not that good either. Arrington is an FA at the end of the year anyways.

3. Interior OL (G/C)
Logan Mankins is unlikely to return. Stephen Neal is retiring and injury prone. Dan Koppen is injury prone. Dan Connolly is a solid starter but would be a better backup. Ryan Wendell is a free agent. The rest of the depth are career backups at best. There are no true centers to backup Dan Koppen (Wendell has experience there, but is more of a guard). This could be a first round pick in 2011. Rumors are the Patriots targeted both Maurkice Pouncey and Eric Wood, but both were grabbed before NE picked.

4. Runningback
How many runningbacks do you think are currently signed to play in the 2011 season? If you guessed anything but zero, you're wrong. We have literally no one signed at running back past 2010. While I think we should definitely try to keep some of the guys on the roster, it may make better sense to go after a free agent or a draft prospect. We are going to need at least 3 RBs. Maybe more. (Obviously, everyone wants Faulk, Woodhead, and BJGE back right now, but it just may not happen. If they come back, I would think the team needs at least one more RB)

5. Pass Rusher #2
If we draft a DE who can play UT, we also need an OLB or visa versa. This might be too low. But I think a little improvement will go a long way in this category.

6. Right Tackle
I have no love for Matt Light in 2011 or beyond and no love for Nick Kaczur at all. Sebastian Vollmer needs to be the left tackle and the Patriots need a RT. To be honest, they need to start revamping the OL entirely (they're good at not making mistakes, but they are starting to pile up injuries and lose their athleticism)

7. Defensive back #2
My surprise pick for the Patriots (in the first two rounds) could be a safety. Brandon Meriweather seems to make stupid plays in games and the coaching staff doesn't like it either. I really see him on another team in the near future. and the Patriots going in another direction. This could be another CB, because our CBs suck.

8. Wide Receiver
We really don't have anyone over 6'1" that can catch a pass outside of Rob Gronkowski. Just need to find someone who can block, get separation, and catch consistently. A red-zone threat if you will.

9. Fullback
The patriots don't have a real fullback. We put Sammy Morris at that spot right now, but it would be so much better to put a guy like Stanley Havili there. Better lead blocker, better receiver, better running ability. Morris needs to be let go in 2010 (he's a FA). It's time to bring in a FB.

10. Quarterback
Brian Hoyer needs some competition to keep him going and god forbid someone get hurt. If nothing else, a camp arm should be brought in with a draft pick.

11. Nose Tackle
I don't think Vince Wilfork needs to be replaced, but who is the Patriots backup NT? Myron Pryor plays the nose. He's not very good at it and is more of a nickel UT (and not great at that either, but much better). Gerard Warren plays backup NT too, but he's a FA and not very good at it. A backup NT could be nice to have for when Wilfork needs a blow on the sideline. (and at like 370, I bet he needs them more often)
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:54 AM    (permalink
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How happy would you guys be with a 1st round of WR Julio Jones and RB Mark Ingram, then a second with DE Cameron Heyward and OG John Moffitt?
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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I just don't see this FO taking a RB high. The Law Firm (heretofore extending to include Woodhead because, let's face it "BenJarvis Green-Ellis & Woodhead sounds even more Law-Firm-ey than BJGE does alone) is a solid combination for NE given the passing ball control style of play. Resign them and hope for a return of Faulk, however unlikely that may be.

Target the later round RBs that always prove to be gems. *cough* *Blount* *cough*

I think what I like most about descendency's list is that WR falls so far down. That makes it a lock to be our first round selection. lol

The least obvious scenario based on our needs would be CB / WR in round one. Mark it down now.
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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How happy would you guys be with a 1st round of WR Julio Jones and RB Mark Ingram, then a second with DE Cameron Heyward and OG John Moffitt?
I think we're completely out of Mark Ingram mode here. I would rather get a better defensive end and look for a runner later.

Also, descendency, it's not just a red zone type we need. We have those already in Gronk, Hernandez, and the improved short yardage running game. We need a guy who can actually beat a corner on straight route against man coverage and not in an option route/zone coverage situation.
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Just throwing a name out there: Justin Houston. Can play all 3 downs without being a liability.

Another potential (longer shot): Marcel Dareus. Could play DE+UT. Not having the best year and guys like Nick Fairley will get drafted higher because of that. I just don't know if that's enough to push him into the Patriots range.

And yea, we need someone who can consistently beat man coverages too because our offense is predicated on zone beatting WRs now right. The only way to force teams into zone blitzing is to have a down the field threat. I guess I have a bit too much optimism for Brandon Tate so far.

Just a thought on potential picks (4 rounds deep):

1. Justin Houston, OLB, Georgia
A 3 down OLB. The only player at Georgia doing anything right now. May get drafted before this sadly. I think he has special written all over him in the Patriots D.

1. Stefan Wisniewski, C/G, Penn State
Fills a potential need at Guard and a future center. Not quite in the Eric Wood or Maurkice Pouncey mold, but definitely a very good technician with good athleticism for a guard (and obviously a center)

2. Jon Baldwin, WR, Pittsburgh
He has all of the physical talents you could possibly want. His QB sucks too. This kid reeks of future great WR and just hasn't had the production to get drafted in round 1. If NE lets him fall any farther, it will be insane. When he's catching 50-60 balls from Tom Brady in 2011, don't be surprised. At 6'5", 230, 4.4*, he's a man and zone coverage beater. He will demand double teams. Think young poor mans' Randy Moss who isn't afraid to go over the middle. (and if NE is paying attention, we might have Randy Moss to tutor him too lol)

2. Trade out/down
There just isn't anything on the board that I consider reasonable that should be taken by NE at this point. I'd love to use this pick to get a RT or a player like DeAngelo Williams (who will likely be tagged and traded). But a second next year and a 5th or something would be nice as well.

3. Davon House, CB, NMSU
While he's not playing top tier talent regularly, this guy could be an excellent value here. He's an All-Conference CB who owns all of his schools CB records.

3. James Carpenter, G, Alabama
While he plays LT for Alabama, I seriously question whether he has the atheleticism to play LT in the NFL. However, I don't question whether he has it to play G. He is a perfect ZBS guard and is being rated too low in my opinion. Good pass protector and powerful run blocker. Right Tackle may be an option.

4. Stanley Havili, FB, USC
While it's not a need, I think it gives NE some serious scheme versatility to draft a guy like this. He's basically an upgrade to Sammy Morris. He'll play all 4 downs.

I didn't draft a running back because there will likely be either a trade or a FA brought in. Quite frankly, this running back class sucks in the late second to early 4th. Lots of skinny legs and guys with no burst. I'd almost sacrifice a 1st next year and a second this year to get Ingram, but then I remembered our team is built on undrafted free agent running backs.
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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I love the way Houston plays ball, but I can't see him falling to us unfortunately. :( That's why I have Kerrigan in my sig who would also be a great pick. Wisniewski would be nice to get, but I'm completely off Baldwin in the first two rounds. Imo he has bust written all over him, but it seems I stand alone with this opinion. Trade out/down seems like a very plausible scenario when it comes to all of our picks haha. House in the third is OK by me, we could use another body at CB. Also, Havili in the fourth would be a good pick.
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Thanks for the feedback, fellas!
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Old 11-23-2010, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Kerrigan would not be a bad consolation prize for Houston in the slightest.
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Kerrigan might be too similar to Cunningham, but I'll sure as hell take him.
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Old 11-23-2010, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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Kerrigan might be too similar to Cunningham, but I'll sure as hell take him.
You say that like it's a bad thing ;)
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Old 11-23-2010, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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You say that like it's a bad thing ;)
It's not, but you need one of them to be able to be effective in pass coverage. Maybe Cunningham will get to that point by next year... Not saying I wouldn't take the Prince of Blades, though...don't get me wrong.
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Old 11-24-2010, 03:23 AM    (permalink
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Kerrigan might be too similar to Cunningham, but I'll sure as hell take him.
I'll give that they are similar but Kerrigan is a far better pass rusher than Cunningham imo.
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Old 11-24-2010, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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I would agree with that. Kerrigan has more moves and plays more intensely, not that that's an issue with Cunningham, it's just such a positive for Kerrigan. Similar athletes though.
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Old 11-28-2010, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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So this is the first two rounds scenario I'm thinking right now...
1a. Prince of Blades
1b. Lee Ziemba
2a. Stefan Wisniewski
2b. DeMarco Murray
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