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Old 10-26-2010, 12:20 PM    (permalink
MetSox17
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Ive seen Andre Johnson beat him this year
Can't take srs after that.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by scottyboy View Post
or the Saints CB's.

boosh.
The Saints are the 6th ranked D while also being the worse D on the planet, and the reason we are losing.

When you hear people legitimately arguing for Porter, Greer, or Robinson, like they are for Revis, Cromartie, or Webster, you come back to me.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Honestly, I think Nmandi is overrated by this forum. I think ppl dont' watch the Raiders enough, and just assume Nmandi does his thing and mentions his name.

Ive seen Andre Johnson beat him this year and Ive seen Malcolm Floyd eat his lunch. He got destroyed by SD.

He's great, but he's not this unstoppable force that people make him out to be. Yeah, he doesn't get targeted much, but that's bc Oakland is ******** and only line him up on one side of the field much of the game.

But when he has been lined up with some #1 WRs, I have seen him get beat. The whole "ppl throw away from him" mumbo jumbo works both ways. He's not even covering the best WR on the opposition for most of the game, so of course they'll throw away from him.

That also makes his game look better than it really is. Put him 1 on 1 with Andre Johnson all game, and he'd get burned.

SD wasn't afraid to line up Floyd on him and Floyd burned him.

Nmandi is great, probably top 5 in the league, but he's overrated on this message board.
The chiefs do the samething to Brandon Flowers thats why Andre Johnson lit them up for 130 yards but no puts him down for that.
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Old 10-26-2010, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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Nnamdi has been moved around and tailed the best receiver a lot of the time this year anyway, as Paranoidmoonduck noted already.
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Old 10-26-2010, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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aso is still the best in my eyes. i think the whole "teams don't throw to his half of the field" is an overused phrase for most corners, but with him it's absolutely true. i was reading a q&a with titans OC mike heimerdinger not too long ago that focused on kenny britt and jared cook, and he mentions it during the interview. these quotes are very telling to me, coming from someone like dinger, who is very blunt and to the point, and never mixes words.

Quote:
After Oakland everybody told me [Britt] didn't have a good game because he didn't have a catch, but in that game plan we didn't throw left. Our reads weren't going to No.21 [Nnamdi Asomugha]. We did what everybody else in the league does and not throw at that guy, and that's where Kenny got stuck a few times on the left.
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We have a package for [Jared] Cook every week. I had one against the Raiders because they never play zone, and they switched to zone. I had Cookie out there, but four times he was matched up against No. 21. I don't want a receiver matched up against that guy, I sure don't want Cookie matched up against him.
http://ten.247sports.com/Article/A-o...merdinger-2467
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Old 10-26-2010, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
The Saints are the 6th ranked D while also being the worse D on the planet, and the reason we are losing.

When you hear people legitimately arguing for Porter, Greer, or Robinson, like they are for Revis, Cromartie, or Webster, you come back to me.
well, considering Revis is easily a top 5 CB an Webster is top 10-15 (playing like top 10 this year) they deserve to get mentioned. Cro still sucks, not sure where his love is coming from.

but people tried to tell me Porter and Greer were upper echelon in the preseason. that's just silly.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 10-26-2010, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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Cro still sucks, not sure where his love is coming from.
He's played great ever since Revis went down. One might even say he's been dominant, and I hated the Cro trade when it first happened.
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Old 10-26-2010, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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Calling Jabari Greer an upper echelon corner in the preseason would not have been silly at all. I honestly have barely seen the Saints the past few weeks, but are you saying that people shouldn't talk about Greer even when the discussion includes "top 10-15"?
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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Greer deserves as much talk as Webster, if not more. Porter not so much.
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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I think if anything Cro is getting underrated. Hes played better then Revis this year outside of the Ravens game thus far.
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Old 10-26-2010, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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He's played great ever since Revis went down. One might even say he's been dominant, and I hated the Cro trade when it first happened.
sucks is too strong a word, but he's still been inconsistant. He's had some ridiculous flashes of excellence and then some of just trbl Cro.
And I do not think Greer is top 10-15. Close, but not there and he is not better than Webster. Webster has been just an absolute monster this year. He's been incredible since Spags turned him around
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 10-26-2010, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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Brandon Flowers, because he is the second coming of Ty Law.
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Old 10-26-2010, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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Greer deserves as much talk as Webster, if not more. Porter not so much.
Not for his play. Greer's a wonderful corner but he's not playing as well as Web right now and in general I think Web is more talented because he absolutely more blanketing when you let him just run with a guy. Granted huge targets like Vjax can beat him, but Greer can't shut down Vjax 1 on 1 either, so that one really weakness of his isn't a strong point for Greer. Now Greer certainly deserves some top 15 love, but that doesn't mean he deserves more talk than Web who's more talented and playing better.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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Not for his play. Greer's a wonderful corner but he's not playing as well as Web right now and in general I think Web is more talented because he absolutely more blanketing when you let him just run with a guy. Granted huge targets like Vjax can beat him, but Greer can't shut down Vjax 1 on 1 either, so that one really weakness of his isn't a strong point for Greer. Now Greer certainly deserves some top 15 love, but that doesn't mean he deserves more talk than Web who's more talented and playing better.

One guy has probably the top pass rush in the league, and the other plays with a team that can't get any sort of push.

Unless you have something other than Giants fan-itis that shows WEbster is so clearly better, it's just blowing smoke.

I'm not trying to be a dick, I just don't see what else Greer could be expected to do with a poor pass rush.
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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well, considering Revis is easily a top 5 CB an Webster is top 10-15 (playing like top 10 this year) they deserve to get mentioned. Cro still sucks, not sure where his love is coming from.

but people tried to tell me Porter and Greer were upper echelon in the preseason. that's just silly.
Just two years ago, Corey Webster was a top 5 CB and had an amazing season. Last year was a huge drop off (kind of like what we're seeing with Mike Jenkins or Charles Woodson), but he is back to that shutdown caliber mode right now. I wouldn't put many CBs ahead of him based on this season alone, and certainly not the injured Darrelle Revis. I'd say the CBs having the best season are:

1. Brandon Flowers, Kansas City
2. Nnamdi Asomugha, Oakland Raiders
3. Leon Hall, Cincinnati Bengals
4. Corey Webster, New York Giants
5. Vontae Davis, Miami Dolphins

Top 2 could go either way and 3 through 5 could be rearranged. Davis goes at 5 for me for hurting himself while celebrating an INT. Reminded me of this moron:


I've never hated a kicker more than Gramatica. 1st QT of a nothing-nothing game and he jumps around after hitting a routine 43 yard field goal... what a ******* joke.


DeAngelo Hall and Antonio Cromartie were such garbage over the last few years (Hall has been redeeming himself since getting out of Oakland and into Washington), so, for that alone, I can't call those guys anything close top 10 CBs when there are so many good CBs in the NFL. Cromartie is having a career year since his All-Pro, 10 INT season and Hall is playing fairly well. Hall is and always will be overrated for getting a bunch of INTs. He's a pretty average player that gets beat a lot, but I'll take Asante Samuel or Aqib Talib if I want that.
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:36 AM    (permalink
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How's McKlevin doing? Wasn't he the first CB taken in that rich CB draft?
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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How's McKlevin doing? Wasn't he the first CB taken in that rich CB draft?
That CB class was pretty awesome, well honestly if you needed a RB or CB that year it be hard to go wrong. He had so much potential, his career hasn't started off the way I thought it would but he has still looked good in glimpses to me.


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says the cowboys fan...one great game huh? remind me how the dallas washington game ended this year?

What's being a Cowboy fan have to do with anything? Deangelo is not even close to a top 10 CB, he still gets burned repeatedly.
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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Oh, to Rosebud:

I will say this, the Saints D is ranked high, and they've been excellent, but we've played some real dogshit at QB so far, so I guess we can take our secondaries performance with a grain of salt(though when the starters are on the field, they've been excellent since opening week last year.)
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Old 10-27-2010, 01:38 PM    (permalink
yourfavestoner
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Oh, to Rosebud:

I will say this, the Saints D is ranked high, and they've been excellent, but we've played some real dogshit at QB so far, so I guess we can take our secondaries performance with a grain of salt(though when the starters are on the field, they've been excellent since opening week last year.)
To be fair, they did last year too.

Kolb in his first start, Sanchez, Trent Edwards, Henne, Bulger, Jason Campbell, Freeman (twice), Delhomme, and Matt Moore.
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Old 10-27-2010, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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How's McKlevin doing? Wasn't he the first CB taken in that rich CB draft?
He had a great start to the year. Jets game was a little rough on him as he got beat bad by Edwards for a TD. Seems like there's been some miscommunication between him and the safeties lately, but he's been our top corner all year. Even when McGee was healthy, McKelvin was drawing Marshall and Moss and doing very well (Moss' touchdowns came at the expense of Florence, who has come back down to earth).

He looked fantastic in both coverage and run support early in the season, he just had impeccable timing and instincts. People have been throwing at Florence a lot more and abusing us with tight ends, so not as much of the action has been at him in the past couple of games. Some of that is due to his own good coverage, but he's still getting beat more than when people were trying to take shots at him early on. He doesn't seem to be a step ahead of the play like he was in the first couple of games.

To sum it up, he has been our best player on defense this season. But that's dropped off from amazing to "less bad" in recent weeks.
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Old 10-27-2010, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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To be fair, they did last year too.

Kolb in his first start, Sanchez, Trent Edwards, Henne, Bulger, Jason Campbell, Freeman (twice), Delhomme, and Matt Moore.

True enough, but Greer did his damn thang against Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and Peyton Manning too.

The worst thing I really remember against Greer in the playoffs was Sidney Rice's TD, but he was silent other than that. I remember in the Superbowl he came out for one play... ONE and Indy hit us with a TD throw to Garcon I believe.

Bills fans said that Greer was an amazing man to man cover guy, and I was skeptical, but he's been spectacular on an island here. He's in single coverage virtually the entire game, and he's an excellent tackler. I love the guy.
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Old 10-27-2010, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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True enough, but Greer did his damn thang against Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and Peyton Manning too.

The worst thing I really remember against Greer in the playoffs was Sidney Rice's TD, but he was silent other than that. I remember in the Superbowl he came out for one play... ONE and Indy hit us with a TD throw to Garcon I believe.

Bills fans said that Greer was an amazing man to man cover guy, and I was skeptical, but he's been spectacular on an island here. He's in single coverage virtually the entire game, and he's an excellent tackler. I love the guy.
He was my favourite Bills player when he left. I got to watch him go from some 130 pound ethipoian runner out of college who was crap and a practice squad/5th corner player into a guy that was covering quality receivers really well and even forcing fumbles at his size sometimes. I hate when guys that your team developed get away right when they start producing at a high level :(
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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One guy has probably the top pass rush in the league, and the other plays with a team that can't get any sort of push.

Unless you have something other than Giants fan-itis that shows WEbster is so clearly better, it's just blowing smoke.

I'm not trying to be a dick, I just don't see what else Greer could be expected to do with a poor pass rush.
Not for this year, footballoutsiders is no longer free. But two years ago C web was healthy with a middle of the road pass rush and put up elite numbers with a remarkably low YPA and completion percentage which showed how studly he's been since spags turned him around leading to our SB run which ended with a game where he shut down single-season-TD-record-holder Randy Moss one on one.

Last year Maclin made a perfect catch for a TD against him and then Vjax over powered him before he got hurt for the rest of the year which is why he had a down year. This year he's healthy again and is not only playing phenomenally in man but has been really good in zones which many of us thought was just his kryptonite.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:29 PM    (permalink
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He was my favourite Bills player when he left. I got to watch him go from some 130 pound ethipoian runner out of college who was crap and a practice squad/5th corner player into a guy that was covering quality receivers really well and even forcing fumbles at his size sometimes. I hate when guys that your team developed get away right when they start producing at a high level :(
Antoine Winfield, Nate Clements, Jabari Greer, you guys pretty much supply CBs for the free agent market.
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