Dallas Cowboys Discussion

[E-Man]

Originally Posted by The Unseen

I usually come into the other team's thread after they play the Jaguars to say "good game," win or loss. However, I feel like saying "good game" would be mocking you all since that was in no stretch of the imagination a good game by the Cowboys. So instead, I say better luck next season, because your team does have a lot of bright spots, even with all the bad spots.

Who is that in your avatar? Those tits look lovely!

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I don't think it would be crazy for Dallas to switch to a 4-3 defense under a new regime. Ive been saying tha tfor the past 2 years.

You can definitely make it work. Ware would be a beast in any scheme, Spencer would be solid, Ratliff would florish as a UT, in fact Spears would make a very solid 4-3 NT, ive been saying that for years as well.

DBs are DBs, they're irrelevant to the switch. You just need a true 4-3 WILL to make the change. And I know the 3-4 is great to move Ware and Spencer around, but you can still do the same thing in a 4-3. 4-3 defenses have changed a lot in the past decade. A good 4-3 DC does a great job of moving his pass rushers around.

Im gonna make a thread next week about the Titans. Ive studied their defense during hte bye, and their dline is a perfect example of how 4-3 teams have adapted to moving guys around and using various stunts to become just as confusing as a 34 front.

I see what you're saying about the Titans' D, and that's why I'm wishing like crazy that somehow something crazy lets Fisher be the Cowboys' coach next season. Their defense has always been good at causing confusion and keeping a great rotation of good players. They always find really good players in middle to lower rounds too. Of all the defenses playing now, they remind me of the 90's Cowboys' D the most. There are a lot of similarities there.

[xxxxxxxx]

The reason our defense is so pathetic is because all we do is line up, and expect our talent to win. Wade's defense is a JOKE. Every jaguar player was saying it before and after the game. Wade sucks. all we do is play man to man and rush 4 or 5 and expect our "superior talent" to win, which it obviously doesn't. My mom could put up a solid gameplan against our defense.

There is never any disguises, tricks, anything. It's a joke.

[pocketaces]

Originally Posted by CDCB14

The reason our defense is so pathetic is because all we do is line up, and expect our talent to win. Wade's defense is a JOKE. Every jaguar player was saying it before and after the game. Wade sucks. all we do is play man to man and rush 4 or 5 and expect our "superior talent" to win, which it obviously doesn't. My mom could put up a solid gameplan against our defense.

There is never any disguises, tricks, anything. It's a joke.

What a difference a year makes eh?

[LizardState]

Maybe they will sweep the Eagles again.

They put a monkey on their backs from taking 3 from them last yr. They don't play them until twice in December, a long time for the Eagles & Reid's Big Gut to stew on it & let the fear monster build up.

On the other hand, Kitna wll still be starting, so :/

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by Morton

So you're just going to hope that Jerry can throw a couple hundred million at some older guys in free agency to shore up the O-Line? Gonna depend on some 2nd rounders / 3rd rounders to be solid starters?

More like throw millions to FAs in their prime. 2nd and 3rd rounders could EASILIY be solid starters. Especially when you're talking about interior OL. Is that news to you?

[pocketaces]

Originally Posted by Morton

Because cornerbacks score points for you, right?

Assuming that Peterson is instantly a shutdown corner in the NFL (which is a ridiculous assumption), even if a single cornerback can instantly turn a defense into an elite unit (which it won't), it won't matter if the Cowboys can't pass block or establish the run.

If the Cowboys neglect their offensive line yet again, they will seriously come to regret it in the future when they can't protect Romo and can't open holes for their RBs, regardless of what kind of secondary they develop.

People hate offensive lineman because they're mostly invisible to the casual observer of football - if they're doing their job, you just don't notice them. But when a team doesn't have good offensive linemen, the fans complain about the quarterback getting happy feet and the running backs being unable to find running lanes. But real football people understand the importance of a dominant offensive line - it improves your running game, and it keeps your quarterback clean. In turn, if you can keep your offense on the field for a longer period of time and establish a running game, you can keep your defense off the field.

There's a strong link between the 90s Cowboys having the best offensive line in the NFL and all the success they had. There's a reason the 2009 New Orleans Saints were able to field the #1 offense - they had two of the best guards in the NFL.

LT Mark Tuinei UNDRAFTED, LG Nate Newton UNDRAFTED, C Mark Stepnoski 3RD ROUND, RG Kevin Gogan 8TH ROUND. RT Erik Williams 3RD ROUND...What was your point again?

That Saints team? ZERO First round picks on that OL either. See ya later, Thanks for playing!!!!

[pocketaces]

In case your wondering, the 1st rounders on those Super Bowl teams?
QB, RB, WR, WR, DT, DT, and yes CB

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by CDCB14

The reason our defense is so pathetic is because all we do is line up, and expect our talent to win. Wade's defense is a JOKE. Every jaguar player was saying it before and after the game. Wade sucks. all we do is play man to man and rush 4 or 5 and expect our "superior talent" to win, which it obviously doesn't. My mom could put up a solid gameplan against our defense.

There is never any disguises, tricks, anything. It's a joke.

Which is why I didn't understand why you thought we were going to beat them lol. Besides the fact that Scandrick is an easy completion on 3rd downs every single time lmao. I don't know about you guys but I'm rooting to lose every single week. Obviously I want to see young guys player better, as well as young guys getting valuable reps atm, but I'm gonna be pissed if we start winning meaningless games.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by pocketaces

LT Mark Tuinei UNDRAFTED, LG Nate Newton UNDRAFTED, C Mark Stepnoski 3RD ROUND, RG Kevin Gogan 8TH ROUND. RT Erik Williams 3RD ROUND...What was your point again?

That Saints team? ZERO First round picks on that OL either. See ya later, Thanks for playing!!!!

I've never seen someone argue a point so strong that had no clue what they were talking about. Jesus. I've already asked him what RT, Guard, Center, or hell even Safety was worth a top 5 to 10 pick, he's yet to answer because there is none. Anyone who thinks we should take someone who'll probably be drafted around picks 20-40 in the top 5 because it's arguably our biggest need needs to take his meds before trying to post.

[Morton]

See, the problem with everyone saying that stud offensive lineman can be found in later rounds of the draft - yes, your'e right - sometimes you do find them there, like the Mark Tuneis and the Jahri Evans of the world. However, you have to draft them and develop them first. Some teams are good at this, like the New Orleans Saints obviously were.

The fact of the matter is that the Cowboys HAVEN'T been good at this. They've developed next to ZERO offensive line talent in ANY round of the draft the past few years. So unfortunately, there will be no Mark Tuneis and Jahri Evans for them, and teams that fail to develop late round talent inevitably have to spend premium picks on them or grab them through free agency.

So, can someone please point out the cache of late-round offensive line talent that the Cowboys have successfully developed over the past five years? Doug Free? That's it? Yeah, "thanks for playing"!

Face it, if Dallas wants to minimize the chance that they will be fielding a crappy offensive line the rest of the decade, they are going to need to sink premium picks into the line and/or throw lots of free agency dollars at guys simply because they HAVEN'T developed guys.

[FreshBoy!]

OK man...ok, we get it...You really think the boys should spend their first 5 picks on Oline.

Cool. Thanks. Appreciate it.

[Morton]

Originally Posted by Sniper

Patrick Peterson does indeed score points, as evidenced by the two punt return touchdowns this year and four career touchdowns. Your logic is pretty terrible, though. Peterson's job may not be to score points, but if he helps the defense, wouldn't that help the offense by reducing the pressure on them?

Seriously, you can't be this stupid, can you? You do realize that wasn't a literal statement? If you are bringing up the point that a cornerback can theoretically, and rarely run a pick back for a touchdown just so that you can counter the claim that "cornerbacks don't score points for you" i.e. help out your offense - then you're incredibly thick-skulled.

Let's say you have the Cowboys picking at No. 5, just to be smack-dab in the top-10. Wouldn't the value of Peterson and early second-round pick on the OL significantly trump the value of an OL in the top-10 and a corner in the early second-round? I'm just not sure what OL prospect you expect Dallas to take in the top-10. Jake Long's not in this draft. Joe Thomas isn't either. It's a weak OL year. Why would they reach badly?

Because they have a track record of completely utterly failing to develop late-round offensive linemen? How the hell can you rely on a 2nd round rookie to play at a high level, especially if you have a bad track record with offensive lineman draft picks in the past decade?

I'm not sure who "hates" offensive linemen.

Everyone hates discussing offensive linemen as first round picks for their team. Take a look around this forum. Every time the subject comes up, people complain that they don't won't to "waste" a pick on an offensive lineman. They'd rather have the flashy cornerback or the pass-rushing defensive end because of this myth that they can just "get by" with their existing offensive linemen or all those guys they pick in the later rounds.

Both were drafted in the middle rounds (Evans in the 4th, Nicks in the 5th), which doesn't help your "Cowboys must reach for an OL in the top 10" argument.

Again, that's great for you if you CAN find guys like Evans and Nicks in the later rounds. However, if you aren't that lucky, you still don't have a decent offensive line, and there is no guarantee that any future 3rd-7th round picks WILL mature into these types of players. So what do you do? Gamble and cross your fingers that you'll get lucky despite the fact that you have no track record of finding these guys in the past? Or go for a more "sure thing" prospect in the first round like alot of teams?

[xxxxxxxx]

Ok, I emailed jerry and told him to draft 6 straight o-lineman and spend our seventh rounder on a guide to drafting good o-lineman...

You can leave now.

[jbsg02]

Don't feed the bear! If everyone just stopped replying to his messages he would lose interest

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by Morton

See, the problem with everyone saying that stud offensive lineman can be found in later rounds of the draft - yes, your'e right - sometimes you do find them there, like the Mark Tuneis and the Jahri Evans of the world. However, you have to draft them and develop them first. Some teams are good at this, like the New Orleans Saints obviously were.

The fact of the matter is that the Cowboys HAVEN'T been good at this. They've developed next to ZERO offensive line talent in ANY round of the draft the past few years. So unfortunately, there will be no Mark Tuneis and Jahri Evans for them, and teams that fail to develop late round talent inevitably have to spend premium picks on them or grab them through free agency.

So, can someone please point out the cache of late-round offensive line talent that the Cowboys have successfully developed over the past five years? Doug Free? That's it? Yeah, "thanks for playing"!

Face it, if Dallas wants to minimize the chance that they will be fielding a crappy offensive line the rest of the decade, they are going to need to sink premium picks into the line and/or throw lots of free agency dollars at guys simply because they HAVEN'T developed guys.

I'm not gonna say Dallas has done a good job drafting and developing guys. But at the same time, Andre Gurode was a 2nd round pick that they drafted and developed to the point where it wasn't a big draft need. They've had success in FA with Kyle Kosier and Marc Colombo. They've done well by trade with Leonard Davis. This is all by design and philosophy. Jerry has the philosophy that when faced with an OL problem that FA/trade is his immediate answer. The draft is just for developing long term projects. Needless to say our draft success has been very hit or miss...or hit and mostly miss. But when the hole is an immediate need, he has addressed it with a player who could provide immediate help... and not development help, like a drafted player would be.

I expect us to acquire 2 veteran offensive linemen in the offseason, whether it be by FA or trade.

[LizardState]

This is all by design and philosophy. Jerry has the philosophy that when faced with an OL problem that FA/trade is his immediate answer. The draft is just for developing long term projects. Needless to say our draft success has been very hit or miss...or hit and mostly miss.

That's b/c they trust veterans more than rookies, maybe Parcells had more influence over Jerry's thinking than anyone knew. There's no substitute for NFL experience & the era of FA emphasizes that. Still there are limits in the cap, I think they overpaid for Leonard Davis & his outrageous salary demands, now no way he's earning it. Colombo & Kosier came somewhat cheaper & if memory serves got raises with new contracts that were earned on a performance basis.

Speaking of available veterans, Dallas is 3rd on the waiver list after Buffalo & Carolina to sign Randy Moss. Useless as a square wheel, yes, but Jerry gets that glimmer in his eye when there's talk of Moss. Had Roy Williams underwhelmed as we all thought he would, then there would be a great effort made for, especially with a HC who's under serious fire like Wade is, substitute Moss for Williams as a good fit. Let's keep the receivers intact & let Moss go back to Bellichick to renew their lovefest.

The disfunctional insanity & drama yesterday at Minnesota made imploded teams like Dallas look like pillars of stability by comparison.

[Macarthur]

Originally Posted by Morton

Because they have a track record of completely utterly failing to develop late-round offensive linemen? How the hell can you rely on a 2nd round rookie to play at a high level, especially if you have a bad track record with offensive lineman draft picks in the past decade?

I'm not arguing that Dallas has been great, but I think utter failure is a bit strong.

As D said, Geroude has been a pretty good pick. Let's not forget about Free. They did great in picking up Columbo. Kosier has been a solid FA signing.

They have had plenty of misses like Rogers, Petterman & Brewster, but so does everyone. Last year I posted some info on draft busts of our NFC east bunk mates and our record on drafts is not any better or any worse. Reece is highly thought of as a GM, but if you go back through some of his picks, he's had some duds too.

I agree that our OL is in a tough place, but to say 'utter failure' is too strong.

[FreshBoy!]

Morton is a idiot...but I'll play.


You're also not taking into consideration that there's other teams drafting with the same needs as the 'Boys. I can specifically remember targeting Max Unger and Pouncey...both were grabbed right before the Boys had a chance to make a move.

Things happen on draft day, so the board is the board. It's not as if Dallas has ignored the O-Line(although it may seem like that). It just seems it's easier for Jerry to throw money at FA's then it is to draft a starter.

[xxxxxxxx]

Let's get into coaches for next season.

After reading the DMN article today, my list goes as follows:

1. Jim Harbough.
2. Bill Cowher.
3. John Gruden.

I want one of those 3.

[Macarthur]

Fisher!!!!!

[xxxxxxxx]

Dude, Harbaugh is a G. He will take Romo to the next level.

[D-Unit]

I like Harbaugh, but the lack of NFL HC experience concerns me.

[E-Man]

I wouldn't want a college head coach at all. Just looking at how both Saban and Spurrier just bailed when things got hard makes me sour on college coaches. The college game isn't as harsh as the NFL. It has more security because you can set your schedule and recruit players that you want instead of waiting and hoping that they will fall to you in the draft. It's just too easy to go back to college when there are too many colleges with deep pockets willing to throw a ton of money at you to come coach for them.

[Macarthur]

D, who is that on your avatar?

[FreshBoy!]

Originally Posted by CDCB14

Dude, Harbaugh is a G. He will take Romo to the next level.

I completely agree....I also think it's the least likely candidate out of EVERYONE named.


Rob Ryan
Leslie Fraiser



Here's a kicker....

Perry Fewell