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Old 11-08-2010, 12:32 PM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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And what I started off saying what that it isn't JUST about injury, it's about how that action affects a football play. He didn't just "brush" his helmet like so many people are saying, he actually moved the QB's head forward which could affect the play being made. If this allowed, then instead of trying to go for the strip from th opposite side, people would just pop the QB in the back of the head.


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Originally Posted by umphrey View Post
It's important to make a distinction, are you debating precedent or the play in question? The rule they write, I would agree that it is a delicate issue how it is interpreted and enforced. However, on the play that happened, I saw incidental contact that wasn't even close to causing injury.



Well first Deacon Jones played in the 70s, and he was a beast, probably the greatest DE of all time. A lot of film on him is going to involve illegal hits under modern rules. But he couldn't have hurt anybody by bringing his arm down on somebody's head while his feet were giving out underneath him. Go back and watch the play - in the position he was in, the defender couldn't generate any kind of damaging power. He didn't even make a fist IIRC. Whatever force hit Manning's head was a fraction of what players endure when they hit the ground or a shoulder pad.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Any knocking into the QB affects his play. That is the purpose of a pass rush, to affect the QB, the best way is to strip or sack him.

No defender would go to tap the head. It doesn't stop the QB, he will step up or if the DE is being pushed by a linemen just stand and throw.

A strip is huge, a sack is really big, taping the helmet barely makes a difference. Any DE went for it would get cut.

Last edited by Bucs_Rule : 11-08-2010 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 11-08-2010, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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I understand the rule and don't pretend to know the perfect solution, but the severity of the penalty was not commensurate with the infraction. Cole brushed Manning's helmet. It didn't deserve a 15 yard penalty. Good call, bad overall rule.
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Old 11-08-2010, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucs_Rule View Post
Any knocking into the QB affects his play. That is the purpose of a pass rush, to affect the QB, the best way is to strip or sack him.

No defender would go to tap the head. It doesn't stop the QB, he will step up or if the DE is being pushed by a linemen just stand and throw.

A strip is huge, a sack is really big, taping the helmet barely makes a difference. Any DE went for it would get cut.
And if a strip or a sack is not possible, why would a defender NOT do the next best thing and punch the QB in the head if there was no rule preventing it?
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Old 11-08-2010, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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I doubt the league would introduce an incidental contact penalty. The whole reason they got rid of the 5 yard facemask was to make it so the refs didn't have to make that sort of subjective call.
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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If that is the spirit behind the rule then you may aswell just say that on pass plays the offensive and defensive lines leave the field and we go to no pass rush because that is pathetic.

I understand if it is a club to the head, but that was not even close to that. There absolutely needs to be an intent and a sufficient force element to that flag, a brush of the helmet, especially whilst being blocked into him, is just not a flag, or shouldn't be.

All that said, the QB is not a defenseless player, they should be treated like a RB whilst the hold the ball, in my opinion. The second the ball is released they should become a defenseless player and institute the additional protection, no problem with that, but, imo, if you are holding the ball you should have no special protection at all.

Maybe I'm biased because I'd rather watch running plays, tackles and the like then watch glorified flag football but I don't really care!
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Old 11-09-2010, 06:38 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsaza2358 View Post
I wonder if the same contact happened against Charlie Whitehurst or Matt Cassel or Jason Campbell if the refs would have called it. Did Manning get more protection based on his status? I'm not accusing anything, just trying to see what others think.
VY was picked up and dumped on his head by 3 Steelers defenders without a peep from the refs.

Yes, status matters.
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