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Old 11-24-2010, 06:18 PM    (permalink
Shane P. Hallam
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Ohio State will likely pass Wisconsin in the BCS standings. It's razon-thin at the moment, and Michigan has a stronger computer ranking than Northwestern.
I don't think that will happen. It actually isn't razor thin. Wisconsin has a fair lead.

Wisconsin - .7688
Ohio State - .7148


Wisconsin has a better shot of catching Stanford who isn't even a hundreth of a point higher than OSU to Wisconsin.
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Ohio State will likely pass Wisconsin in the BCS standings. It's razon-thin at the moment, and Michigan has a stronger computer ranking than Northwestern.
We have a .04 lead in the computer rankings, a two spot lead in the USA Today poll, and a three spot lead in the Harris poll.

There's no way Ohio State is jumping us in either human rankings and I doubt beating a 7-4 Michigan team is going to be enough to jump us in the computer rankings if we beat a 7-4 Northwestern team. Even if they jump us in the computer rankings, that's only 1/3 of the BCS formula. There's no way that they gain so much from the computer rankings to cancel out our lead in the other 2/3rds.

Not a chance Ohio State passes Wisconsin.
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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doesnt wisconsin get the nod anyway since they have the head to head?

edit: i highly doubt OSU WOULD pass them since Wisconsin has the head 2 head.
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Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.

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Old 11-24-2010, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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Brochacho? Dear lord, why do I bother?
Why cant we just be friends?
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Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:31 PM    (permalink
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doesnt wisconsin get the nod anyway since they have the head to head?
If Michigan State loses, yes. But it's a three way tie right now and since Wisconsin beat Ohio State, Michigan State beat Wisconsin, and Ohio State and Michigan state didn't play the tie breaker becomes the best BCS ranking.
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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If Michigan State loses, yes. But it's a three way tie right now and since Wisconsin beat Ohio State, Michigan State beat Wisconsin, and Ohio State and Michigan state didn't play the tie breaker becomes the best BCS ranking.
alrighty, well i highly doubt seeing OSU pass Wisconsin with Wisconsin having the head to head.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Why cant we just be friends?
We can. You are a good sport.
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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This is why Division I college football needs a playoff system. It is the only sport I can think of right now that doesn't have a playoff. You have questions about whether or not TCU or Boise can hang with the big boys? Then let them play the big boys. All Boise has done is schedule any BCS school that will play them and beat them. A playoff is needed to resolve this.
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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This is why Division I college football needs a playoff system. It is the only sport I can think of right now that doesn't have a playoff. You have questions about whether or not TCU or Boise can hang with the big boys? Then let them play the big boys. All Boise has done is schedule any BCS school that will play them and beat them. A playoff is needed to resolve this.
This is kind of a lie. Boise State requests larger than normal amount of proceeds from games when they go on the road and their home field is just annoying to play at.

Boise would get plenty of good OOC games if this were not true. Just look at OSU and how they schedule a major school per year (This year was Miami, last was USC, years before that was NC State [during Rivers] and Texas). The same is true about most schools.

Boise could get 3 major opponents per year if they wanted.
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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This is kind of a lie. Boise State requests larger than normal amount of proceeds from games when they go on the road and their home field is just annoying to play at.

Boise would get plenty of good OOC games if this were not true. Just look at OSU and how they schedule a major school per year (This year was Miami, last was USC, years before that was NC State [during Rivers] and Texas). The same is true about most schools.

Boise could get 3 major opponents per year if they wanted.
Well most schools dont want to come back to boise so doesnt it make sense that BSU would get more money if they arent requiring a return trip?
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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Well most schools dont want to come back to boise so doesnt it make sense that BSU would get more money if they arent requiring a return trip?
Nope. They aren't big enough to be able to make demands like that. It's not fair but thats life.
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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Nope. They aren't big enough to be able to make demands like that. It's not fair but thats life.
This is the whole essence of the problem though. The big teams hide behind being big teams. They refuse to play Boise State, thus taking away their chance to prove whether they belong or not.

Boise relies on the few teams that are game enough to play them and then needs a ridiculous amount of luck to go any further. Results count for nothing because of the "big schools" who are afraid to prove they belong on the field.

Personally I think the SOS stuff should be calculated over a 3 year period. Boise scheduled two strong teams in Oregon State and VTech, it isn't their fault that those teams turned out to be pretty bloody ordinary this year, based on previous years they should have been strong. A school and conferences strength should be determined not just on this season but the previous 2 as well. That way the conferences that have been continually exposed in bowl games despite their big 4 status would lose a little of their priority and favourtism in the current system.

The system is flawed, but Boise deserve a shot at the title more than teams like OSU. They have done everything in their power over the last 4 years to get there. They have beaten anyone with the guts to play them, they have won their bowl games, they have thrashed the inferior competition they should thrash. The Big Ten is only marginally stronger than the WAC at the moment with the jokes that are Illinois, Indiana, Michigan and Minnesota, amongst others. The Big 12 is also pretty damn ordinary and the WAC has been beating up on the PAC 10 this year.

Playoffs really are the only fair system but that is a pipe dream because the big colleges, the ones with the power, don't want a fair system, it isn't in their best interest to have a system that allows smaller schools onto a level playing field. Which is fair enough from their perspective, it is everyone else that needs to step up and change the system. At the moment the only way that I can see it changing would be for all of the Big 4 to have an unbeaten team and have their team not go because their conference gets belittled. So basically the SEC would play whichever of the other 3 conferences wins the random lottery that is the rankings. It would be even better if the ACC would get respectable and make that 5 perfect teams...
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Old 11-24-2010, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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It's not a baseless point. I'm not at all convinced that a school like Boise State could run the table in any of the four major conferences (sorry ACC).

Utah will be a good barometer of that next year. Until then we really can't say.

That said, they deserve a chance at this point. There's nothing left for them to do. If they get stomped, they get stomped. End of discussion.
Utah got stomped by TCU not sure how good of a barometer they'd be considering that...they are a good team but they were not a top 10 team. And next year will be different than this year, just like this year is different than last due to the turnover at this level.
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Old 11-24-2010, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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This is the whole essence of the problem though. The big teams hide behind being big teams. They refuse to play Boise State, thus taking away their chance to prove whether they belong or not.
False. BSU demands $1M to play a big school if it is not a home and home series. A big school is supposed to play a dangerous non AQ team and pay them? Ridiculous. These schools built CFB into what it is today. If it weren't for the historic powers, CFB would be a much smaller sport. I mean 30k stadiums in small TV markets are not building the sport.

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Boise relies on the few teams that are game enough to play them and then needs a ridiculous amount of luck to go any further. Results count for nothing because of the "big schools" who are afraid to prove they belong on the field.

Personally I think the SOS stuff should be calculated over a 3 year period. Boise scheduled two strong teams in Oregon State and VTech, it isn't their fault that those teams turned out to be pretty bloody ordinary this year, based on previous years they should have been strong. A school and conferences strength should be determined not just on this season but the previous 2 as well. That way the conferences that have been continually exposed in bowl games despite their big 4 status would lose a little of their priority and favourtism in the current system.
You mean the BSU team that has an average SOS over the last 10 years of 95?

Even better, is over the last 3 years their ranks are 2007:113, 2008:94, and 2009:96!

Giving an average Sagarin SOS of 101. Are we still talking about how awesome they are? I don't even like Sagarin's rankings because they are subjective (as is any SOS system out there), but it's as good as any.

Since you want to talk about OSU, they are 2007:53 , 2008:46 2009:50. That gives an average of 49.7. Not good, but in the top half of schedules. They schedule 3 utter POS teams a year. Having crappy Big10 bottom feeders kills the SOS vs say an SEC top team. Still they play many top quality teams. BSU plays zero or one per year. Those are facts, not emotional hyperbole. They have an absolutely terrible schedule year in and year out.

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The system is flawed, but Boise deserve a shot at the title more than teams like OSU. They have done everything in their power over the last 4 years to get there. They have beaten anyone with the guts to play them, they have won their bowl games, they have thrashed the inferior competition they should thrash. The Big Ten is only marginally stronger than the WAC at the moment with the jokes that are Illinois, Indiana, Michigan and Minnesota, amongst others. The Big 12 is also pretty damn ordinary and the WAC has been beating up on the PAC 10 this year.
Complete and utter junk. You seem to have no idea what you are talking about. I'm not even sure that you watch CFB. The comparison of the WAC to the BigTen is ridiculously off. All but Minnesota would win the WAC championship (this is conjecture, not fact).

That BSU is 8-15 lifetime vs BCS teams since 1996(the first season it was D1)?

It's not that teams won't play them, it's that BSU makes presumptuous demands after a paltry few wins over BCS teams.

If BSU really gave a damn, they would schedule as many BCS teams as possible. With compensation demands put in line with realistic expectations from what WAC and MWC teams normally get for playing a one and done series with a BCS schools. They have not run any sort of gauntlet, nor had any sort of long term success against quality competition to rationally make these demands.

FSU laid out the gameplan for how to ascend from small time to big time. I suggest BSU take that path. Until then, they are going to be wannabes and they deserve to be wannabes because they won't step up to the plate.

A team with a bottom 15% schedule year in and year out demands to be treated like it's the best team in the country. The same team that has only won 8 games in it's entire history against BCS schools. 8 freaking wins. Alabama beat 11 BCS teams all in one season last year.

They need to prove that they are capable of playing far more than one quality game or two a season. They have not.

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Old 11-24-2010, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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Jesus, write a novel man.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 11-25-2010, 06:45 AM    (permalink
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False. BSU demands $1M to play a big school if it is not a home and home series. A big school is supposed to play a dangerous non AQ team and pay them? Ridiculous. These schools built CFB into what it is today. If it weren't for the historic powers, CFB would be a much smaller sport. I mean 30k stadiums in small TV markets are not building the sport.
How is that an unreasonable demand? That is what they would figure to make from a home and home series, which is a perfectly fair offer. You are simply defending the big schools bullying the small schools which is exactly what I said the problem was. If the big school isn't willing to play a home and home then pay the team that is willing to literally travel anywhere to play you. That is a fair system of give and take. The big schools aren't willing to do it because they know they are a very good chance to lose the game and they don't want to pay for that kind of risk. I don't see what is unreasonable about requesting one million, the big schools pay upward of 500k to play Div II schools so they can smash them.

Hey maybe I'm being unjust in expecting a fair system but the BCS is the only system I know of where a big team can bully and refuse to play a smaller team.

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You mean the BSU team that has an average SOS over the last 10 years of 95?

Even better, is over the last 3 years their ranks are 2007:113, 2008:94, and 2009:96!

Giving an average Sagarin SOS of 101. Are we still talking about how awesome they are? I don't even like Sagarin's rankings because they are subjective (as is any SOS system out there), but it's as good as any.
I think you misread what I suggested. I have no idea if it helps BSU or TCU or who it helps but I think a better way to work out a strength of schedule would be to use 3 years for each team to calculate the strength that they represent. I'm not saying take the same flawed system and average it over 3 years.

That way if a team is a NC contender for two years and you schedule them in the 3rd year and beat them they don't become worthless. That way scheduling teams like Penn State, Virginia Tech or Oregon State for example isn't basically meaningless because those teams have come out and had awful years.

Hell, I don't even know if such a system would change anything, but your biggest complaint seems to be sample size for calculating schedule strength, using 3 years(I like 3 because it is what you expect to get from each player) would give a far great sample size and would give a better conference vs conference rating.

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Complete and utter junk. You seem to have no idea what you are talking about. I'm not even sure that you watch CFB. The comparison of the WAC to the BigTen is ridiculously off. All but Minnesota would win the WAC championship (this is conjecture, not fact).
I am a Michigan and Michigan State fan first and foremost so I do know what I'm talking about. None of the teams that I mentioned I would pick to beat Nevada more than 5 out of 10 times, nevermind BSU. It's depth is far better but the Big 10, 12 and PAC 10 have all been very poor this year and they've all been better than the Big East or ACC. Sure the depth isn't there, but I would have Boise to win 5 out of 10 against any Big Ten team this year and better against most of them.

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If BSU really gave a damn, they would schedule as many BCS teams as possible. With compensation demands put in line with realistic expectations from what WAC and MWC teams normally get for playing a one and done series with a BCS schools. They have not run any sort of gauntlet, nor had any sort of long term success against quality competition to rationally make these demands.
They do? Just because schools bigger than VT and Oregon State wont play them doesn't mean they aren't trying to schedule bigger teams. Simple truth is that bgiger teams aren't willing to play them. They've done what they can within the system to prove they belong. Next year they move to the biggest conference that was willing to take them.

BSU and TCU are both victims of politics. They had to face each other last year because the bowl pickers didn't want to risk them beating a BCS team. Politics is all that is stopping them. It is all a non-issue if Oregon and Auburn win out even though both programs have been caught cheating this year because those two deserve it more due to stronger schedules. That said, if either loses, then TCU and Boise deserve the spot and I wouldn't care if one of my teams was up against them or not, they deserve the spot.

Right now BSU and TCU are the equivalent of Championship teams in English Soccer that have won the league and then had the premier leagues top teams and the league itself come together to find some loophole to stop them getting promoted. If that happened in that league it would be a massive uproar, it is just the old school administrators that cause it in the NCAA.

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FSU laid out the gameplan for how to ascend from small time to big time. I suggest BSU take that path. Until then, they are going to be wannabes and they deserve to be wannabes because they won't step up to the plate.
FSU did it a long time ago, times change and with the internet age and processing of information it should be expected to be quicker. Fact is that Boise has put a team together that can play with anyone.

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A team with a bottom 15% schedule year in and year out demands to be treated like it's the best team in the country. The same team that has only won 8 games in it's entire history against BCS schools. 8 freaking wins. Alabama beat 11 BCS teams all in one season last year.
Where have they demanded it? They have asked for the opportunity and are being shut out. They want a shot at a title which they have put 2 years into getting a shot at, that's the thing, teams that have lost 1 game this year and a few last year expect a shot ahead of a team that regardless of schedule has gone unbeaten for 2 seasons. That is earning your shot and if it isn't then no one deserves to play for the title, just vacate the thing or give it to the SEC champion...

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They need to prove that they are capable of playing far more than one quality game or two a season. They have not.
You can only play who you play. If we are only going to judge a team on one opponent they play lets just put South Carolina in the NC for their ultra impressive win over Alabama. Boise have crushed every weak team they've played and they've done it without even running up the score. They have beaten the "good" teams they've played.

I'm not a Boise fan and as a new fan to the sport I have no lingering nostalgia to anything. I want teams that earn a shot to get a shot. Wouldn't matter if it was Boise or East Carolina, if they have done what Boise and TCU have done they deserve a shot at the title over 1 win teams from the so called power conferences.
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Old 11-25-2010, 07:14 AM    (permalink
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The bottom line is, Boise would **** on OSU and make terrell pryor cry to mommy and tweet about basketball some more. end of story.
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Old 11-25-2010, 08:46 AM    (permalink
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The bottom line is, Boise would **** on OSU and make terrell pryor cry to mommy and tweet about basketball some more. end of story.
But Ohio State's football team isn't really relevant to the discussion. At no point in time did Gee say that the Buckeyes deserved a BCS spot ahead of the Broncos. So, no, that's not the bottom line.
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Old 11-25-2010, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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Utah got stomped by TCU not sure how good of a barometer they'd be considering that...they are a good team but they were not a top 10 team. And next year will be different than this year, just like this year is different than last due to the turnover at this level.
Because, of course, one game is worthwhile for a broad basis of comparison.

The argument is always that schools in the MWC might be able to pull of an upset in a big game, but couldn't endure playing a conference schedule. Seeing as how Utah is one of the top current non-AQ schools over the last 10 years, that's a pretty damn good barometer since they will actually be playing in BCS conference next year.

Seriously, sometimes I think people argue just to ******* argue.
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Old 11-25-2010, 09:21 AM    (permalink
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The argument is always that schools in the MWC might be able to pull of an upset in a big game, but couldn't endure playing a conference schedule. Seeing as how Utah is one of the top current non-AQ schools over the last 10 years, that's a pretty damn good barometer since they will actually be playing in BCS conference next year.
I'm shocked the Big 12 hasnt pandered to TCU but I think they are still bitter about ******* Ann Richards who basically did all she could to include Baylor in the formation of the Big 12 and not TCU.

My guess is that Baylor would be on UNT's level if they werent part of the the Big 12.
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Old 11-25-2010, 09:36 AM    (permalink
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We have a .04 lead in the computer rankings, a two spot lead in the USA Today poll, and a three spot lead in the Harris poll.

There's no way Ohio State is jumping us in either human rankings and I doubt beating a 7-4 Michigan team is going to be enough to jump us in the computer rankings if we beat a 7-4 Northwestern team. Even if they jump us in the computer rankings, that's only 1/3 of the BCS formula. There's no way that they gain so much from the computer rankings to cancel out our lead in the other 2/3rds.

Not a chance Ohio State passes Wisconsin.
And if they do, its freeking bull **** and the BCS is even more awful and communist than I already thought.
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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False. BSU demands $1M to play a big school if it is not a home and home series. A big school is supposed to play a dangerous non AQ team and pay them? Ridiculous. These schools built CFB into what it is today. If it weren't for the historic powers, CFB would be a much smaller sport. I mean 30k stadiums in small TV markets are not building the sport.

You mean the BSU team that has an average SOS over the last 10 years of 95?

Even better, is over the last 3 years their ranks are 2007:113, 2008:94, and 2009:96!

Giving an average Sagarin SOS of 101. Are we still talking about how awesome they are? I don't even like Sagarin's rankings because they are subjective (as is any SOS system out there), but it's as good as any.

Since you want to talk about OSU, they are 2007:53 , 2008:46 2009:50. That gives an average of 49.7. Not good, but in the top half of schedules. They schedule 3 utter POS teams a year. Having crappy Big10 bottom feeders kills the SOS vs say an SEC top team. Still they play many top quality teams. BSU plays zero or one per year. Those are facts, not emotional hyperbole. They have an absolutely terrible schedule year in and year out.



That BSU is 8-15 lifetime vs BCS teams since 1996(the first season it was D1)?

It's not that teams won't play them, it's that BSU makes presumptuous demands after a paltry few wins over BCS teams.

If BSU really gave a damn, they would schedule as many BCS teams as possible. With compensation demands put in line with realistic expectations from what WAC and MWC teams normally get for playing a one and done series with a BCS schools. They have not run any sort of gauntlet, nor had any sort of long term success against quality competition to rationally make these demands.

FSU laid out the gameplan for how to ascend from small time to big time. I suggest BSU take that path. Until then, they are going to be wannabes and they deserve to be wannabes because they won't step up to the plate.

A team with a bottom 15% schedule year in and year out demands to be treated like it's the best team in the country. The same team that has only won 8 games in it's entire history against BCS schools. 8 freaking wins. Alabama beat 11 BCS teams all in one season last year.
So, you're saying that the Big West is Division 1? That's the first conference Boise State joined when they began their football program. They joined an FBS conference in 2001 when they joined the WAC, which would be a good starting point.

Since that time they have become a top football program and continue getting better. Sure, **** on the level of competition they play, but can they help which conference they play in? They have been petitioning the MWC for quite some time to be a member and just this year were they invited. Would we be ******** on them if they had been playing TCU, BYU, and Utah yearly?

They have been building their program for only 15 years and have met incredible success. They are scheduling big schools to play them. They played Virginia Tech and Oregon State this year, next year they open the year vs. Georgia, and in 2014 they play Ole Miss. They have also scheduled Michigan State and BYU. Their doing what they can and are doing what they should now by beating whoever they play by a wide margin. They have made the case that their the elite of the WAC. Next year when they join the Mountain West will begin a new step when they get to face TCU on a yearly basis. Then in 2012 their competition will stiffen when they face TCU, Fresno State, and Nevada on a yearly basis along with Air Force.

Their 2012 opponents will be:
Michigan State
BYU
Miami (OH)
TCU
Nevada
Fresno State
Air Force
Colorado State
San Diego State
New Mexico
UNLV

Possibly Hawaii if that school joins the MWC for football only.

That schedule is significantly stronger than the one they currently play. You know this argument would end if they are put into a championship game and get beat. It would end immediately if they got crushed.
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Old 11-25-2010, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Their 2012 opponents will be:
Michigan State
BYU
Miami (OH)
TCU
Nevada
Fresno State
Air Force
Colorado State
San Diego State
New Mexico
UNLV
and of course Georgia
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 11-25-2010, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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and of course Georgia
That's next year in 2011-2012. The schedule I posted is the 2012-2013.

Next year Boise St. plays Georgia, Toledo, and Tulsa along with TCU and the rest of the Mountain West.
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Old 11-25-2010, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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That's next year in 2011-2012. The schedule I posted is the 2012-2013.

Next year Boise St. plays Georgia, Toledo, and Tulsa along with TCU and the rest of the Mountain West.
gotcha gotcha, good call. I guess i was a little confused because i didnt think they played UGA and MSU in the same season. Shows how much im paying attention right now.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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