2011 Patriots Draft - Page 3

Jvig43 · 01-17-2011, 02:28 AM

Yeah looking at it that way, thats pretty rough. We did get to 14-2 tho with those players, so while it may look bad to us, we have it alot better then a lot of other teams this year.

descendency · 01-17-2011, 02:51 AM

Yeah. I'm not being realistic or holding this team to a normal standard. This is a good team and I am talking about it like I am trying to make it into a franchise-mode Madden team (where you can go 16-0 every year with some creative GM work).

That said, I'm just listing all of the possible positions where competition could be injected or induced.

I mean, safety is highly unlikely to garner a draft pick even if Meriweather is gone. Chung, Sanders, Barrett, Brown, etc are still on the team. So that kind of competition is internal. So would be the Matt Light vs Sebastian Vollmer.

Then there are other spots where it's obvious we just don't have the men on the roster right now like DE.

Sometimes, a player just needs to mature. Maybe that's all that's wrong with Connolly's and Brandon Tate's game right now.

The last type of competition is just not that important, like nickel DB and FB.

I mean, if I had to pick a number of positions that need serious upgrades before fans should get too excited about a deep post-season run, I would say probably 3. (DE, OLB, WR #1) or maybe 4 (G/C) This team was a hugely over-achieving team this year. There is no way it should have won 14 games, especially the way it won some of the games against playoff teams. The defense is average to below average (in terms of production, not including take-aways) and the offense was average to slightly above average (excluding points).

Jvig43 · 01-17-2011, 03:09 AM

Well this Offense was far above average. We were fifth all time in points scored in a season and averaged 31 points a game. It was just exploitable, and playing a division rival for the third time didn't help. If we had scored on that first drive instead of Brady throwing a pick who knows how the tempo of the game would of changed.

With that said, I'd put O-line help just as big a need as the other three. We always manage to find some gems in the later rounds with O-line help which means we could focus on WR, OLB, DE. Some how don't be surprised if we don't take any of those positions with the first few picks.

RealityCheck · 01-17-2011, 11:17 AM

So, now that we pick #28... Who should the targets be?

Don Vito · 01-17-2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealityCheck

So, now that we pick #28... Who should the targets be?

Undersized skill position players and defensive guys who might not be incredibly talented, but they offer versatility and special teams potential.

BradysKnee · 01-17-2011, 11:51 AM

We can't base our draft on one game. (the last one)

I think offensively, all year we've had some OL problems, we definitely need to invest heavily there.

I think the real need is on D. We need a stud DE, badly. Wilfork having to play DE is not a positive.

OLB is also a huge need. I think Cunningham will blossom, but Ninko, Tully(who was invisible last game; expect him cut), just aren't going to get it done. We can't get by on roleplayers anymore and need some athletes.

3rd-4th round we should take a corner, or a ballhawk safety. Butler should be #4, and we need a nickelback who is reliable.

Safetywise, on 3rd and longs, someone who can cover, cover, cover, i don't care if he hits like a girl. Get chung off and put in a cover guy.

ElectricEye · 01-17-2011, 11:55 AM

One thing is for certain; I'm so ******* sick of this "OH MY GOD PATRIOTS O LINE SO GOOD" **** we've heard for years. It's been a problem for a long time and the only reason it hasn't shown up statistically is because Brady's footwork within the pocket is as good as it is.

descendency · 01-17-2011, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealityCheck

So, now that we pick #28... Who should the targets be?

I'm sticking with Rodney Hudson, Mike Pouncey, Stefan Wisniewski, or another potential OL.

Muhammad Wilkerson could be a surprise name.

Jvig43 · 01-17-2011, 11:59 AM

Well some of the sacks were on Brady towards the end, after he had a ton of time in the pocket. That can be attributed to early sacks that shook Brady up in the first half, which was the O-lines problem. Don't expect to keep Mankins, I think he walks.

Don Vito · 01-17-2011, 12:01 PM

Can we discuss how much Darius Butler sucks? I feel like 90% of completions against us are on him and I don't know if I've ever seen him even break up a pass.

Jvig43 · 01-17-2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito

Can we discuss how much Darius Butler sucks? I feel like 90% of completions against us are on him and I don't know if I've ever seen him even break up a pass.

Thaaaaaank you. I was literally just screaming at the tv to take Butler out of the game. I still don't understand how people were defending him on here. He either lets up the big play, or gets a huge PI call. He's my most hated player on this team besides Banta Cain.

ElectricEye · 01-17-2011, 12:31 PM

I have no idea why any of us here carry a candle for him still. Butler is dog **** tier bad.

BradysKnee · 01-17-2011, 03:18 PM

Won't see me doing it. Butler is dead to me lol.

I think we need to understand this was by all respects a building year, we just had a lot of luck and played well for times, but the inexperience showed in the big game.

ElectricEye · 01-17-2011, 03:39 PM

Cut him in the off season. I wouldn't say it's that bad unless it was, but it is. He's wasting a roster spot at this point.

Nalej · 01-17-2011, 04:25 PM

I'm obviously in the minority here but I wouldn't cut him just yet.
If Wilhite is still on the roster, then I can see us trying to develop Buter some more.

Anyways... I really think BB should look at the possibility of moving up and grabbing the elite OLB pass rusher in this draft; Robert Quinn.
Our D makes mediocre QBs look amazing due to the amount of time we give them to throw the ball.
This isn't bend but don't break... it's basically playing prevent all game long.
It's disgusting and I'm sick of it...

sportslover · 01-17-2011, 04:57 PM

Going to start posting much more this offseason, instead of just reading.

But too me, I think the Pats will finally have to address the OLB position this year. To me, Cunningham can develop, and Ninkovich is a solid situational guy but we lack a stud pass rusher who can strike fear in an opposing QB.

Next we need a 3-4 DE who can start opposite Warren and keep Wilfork at the Nose. I love our defensive line rotation, guys like Wright, Brace, Deaderick but they aren't starters at this point, if we can get a stud anchor like a JJ Watt (in love with this kids game), I think we are set for a while along the DLine.

We also need some help on offense, along the OLine (OT, OG/C), WR.
And another CB wouldn't be awful, but not a top priority with upgrades to the front seven as they held their own this year with a suspect front seven and without Bodden, we should get good in this respect.

Overall some targets I like alot for this team.

JJ Watt, DE, Wisconsin
Cameron Jordan, DE, California
Marcell Dareus, DE, Alabama
Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio St.
Robert Quinn, OLB, North Carolina
Justin Houston, OLB, Georgia
Jeremy Beal, OLB, Oklahoma
Julio Jones, WR, Alabama
Jon Baldwin, WR, Pittsburgh
Anthony Castanzo, OT, Boston College
Gabe Carimi, OT, Wisconsin
Mike Pouncey, OG, Florida
Rodney Hudson, OG, Florida St.
Brandon Harris, CB, Miami (FL)
Aaron Williams, CB, Texas
Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado

BB will have a lot of choices and should make the right ones, like he knows how too. I can see Offensive Line as more of a target in Round 2, along with WR as I feel the top ones will be long gone. I think 3-4 DE, and OLB will be his top targets in the 1st, if we got Robert Quinn and JJ Watt, I'd be extatic.

descendency · 01-17-2011, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Vito

Can we discuss how much Darius Butler sucks? I feel like 90% of completions against us are on him and I don't know if I've ever seen him even break up a pass.

Butler would be a lot better DB if he had some pass rush.

He's bad, but our DBs almost always have to cover far too long. This team NEEDS that game breaker pass rusher to help unclog the rushing lanes.

ElectricEye · 01-17-2011, 05:04 PM

I don't know...I've sort of nulled myself to the fact that we put more emphasis on disguising things and forcing quarterbacks to make mistakes than putting up big time sack numbers...

That's what we try to do. But is that right? I'm not really sure.

descendency · 01-17-2011, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

I don't know...I've sort of nulled myself to the fact that we put more emphasis on disguising things and forcing quarterbacks to make mistakes than putting up big time sack numbers...

QBs don't make mistakes often when they are not pressured. One great rusher helps improve the rush accross the board because teams have to account for him. Clay Matthews, for example, is largely responsible for the pressure up the middle.

ElectricEye · 01-17-2011, 05:37 PM

I agree with that. I'm just not sure the coaching staff does.

Nalej · 01-17-2011, 05:43 PM

*drools* at thought of a C.Matthews on our team *exhales*

AntoinCD · 01-18-2011, 02:37 AM

I still can't be sure where exactly our biggest need is on defense. I think interior offensive line is definitely the biggest need on offense.

Generally our defensive line holds up well against the run but suffers in pass rushing. But when you think that the three best pass rushing defensive ends either missed the entire season or at least the end of it then it goes a way to explaining it. Kyle Love looks like a capable back up at NT. Deaderick looks ok at backup DE but neither should be counted on playing long spells. With Warren, Wright and Pryor all coming back I would contemplate leaving DE until 28 or 33 and going OLB at 17(or higher).

Cunningham has his one or two plays a game where he gets close to the QB. I love Ninkovich's motor on every play but he does have the talent to be a top tier guy and TBC sucks. I don't care if it's Quinn they trade up for, or Aldon Smith, Ryan Kerrigan or Justin Houston, or hell even Von Miller at this point. We simply need a pass rusher

AntoinCD · 01-18-2011, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

Butler would be a lot better DB if he had some pass rush.

He's bad, but our DBs almost always have to cover far too long. This team NEEDS that game breaker pass rusher to help unclog the rushing lanes.

This is especially true for the big completion to Edwards. Butler had him pretty well covered but any decent WR if given enough time should get open against man coverage.

Nalej · 01-18-2011, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

This is especially true for the big completion to Edwards. Butler had him pretty well covered but any decent WR if given enough time should get open against man coverage.

This. Give us a good pass rush and our CBs ratings'll go up 10 overall points in Madden

ElectricEye · 01-18-2011, 11:53 AM

Eh. Butler has poor body control and allows way to much separation even when there's an average amount of time. He's fast and pretty good when he doesn't have to flip his hips and go in different directions. But there's very little excuse for getting smoked as often as he does. I love what Arrington brings to the table as a nickelback and really could be the guy we've been looking for at that position, but it speaks volumes about Butler that we're more comfortable with him covering the outside receivers.