Colin Kaepernick: Your Thoughts

[iowatreat54]

CK's pick didn't hit the WR in stride. It hit him in the hands, yes, but it was high and slightly behind. The WR had to jump to even have it hit his hands, and it was to his back shoulder where the DB was.

Still should have been caught, but let's not try and make it out like it was a perfect pass by CK.

[87Canes]

Originally Posted by iowatreat54

CK's pick didn't hit the WR in stride. It hit him in the hands, yes, but it was high and slightly behind. The WR had to jump to even have it hit his hands, and it was to his back shoulder where the DB was.

Still should have been caught, but let's not try and make it out like it was a perfect pass by CK.

Thank you! The pic was both CK and the receivers fault.

[PhinsRock]

Kaepernick's release is a little slow, and he needs to learn how to become a 5 step, drop back passer in the NFL. But he does have all the physical tools, and the thing I love about him is that when he gets outside the pocket to avoid the rush, he's still looking to throw (Aaron Rodgers-like).

I like the arm strength, accuracy, poise, pocket presence and athleticism. There are concerns, but I like him a lot more today than I did a week ago.

He's the number 2 QB on my board, and there really isn't anybody outside of him and Gabbert that I'd spend more than a 4th round pick on.

[brasho]

Originally Posted by 87Canes

The only completions he made were with no pressure. When the pocket got tight on him he struggled.

Your obession with CK is hideous. Dude is not that good...you waste too much time breaking down his game when it's very simple. Rivers release is still awkward and was coming out of NCSU but his throwing motion isn't that far off from your average QB. He is a stronger Bernie Kosar (high, off the side of the head) type throwing motion but still has a very quick release.

And regarding all Senior Bowl QBs being a 2nd rd pick or higher, of course your thinking would lead you to say that Dalton, Stanzi, McElroy, Ponder would be in the 2nd rd. I thought you'd have enough sense to place those guys in the "HIGHER" part of my statement and not the 2nd rd portion of it. Looks like I need to keep it much more simple for you as well...

I really don't know what's your obession with Colin is but it's all going to come to an end in April when he's taken like in rd 3 or something.

I've never even gotten your actual prediction on when he will be drafted. You defend your post like he's going to be the 1st QB taken but I'm going to assume you think he'll be drafted as a low rd 1 right?

You've never gotten my actual prediction of where CK would be drafted? I've only stated numerous times that he would go top 64 and stated as recently as yesterday that I expect him to fall somewhere close to where his NFL comparable did (Randall Cunningham #37) give or take 10-15 spots.

What is my obsession with CK? Nothing, I just see that he clearly has a ton of talent and state it as such only to see people come back with unintelligible reasons why he won't be successful despite the fact that I've given far more evidence and far more compelling arguments as to why he will be a success. Facts are facts, great arm, great mobility, great size, great work ethic, bad (but not as bad as former first rounders Leftwich and Tebow) release.



BTW, when the pressure got tight on CK he struggled? He had 337 lb Phil Taylor in his face on the one bad throw he made and the other times he got pressure, he escaped and made a nice throw (like when he stepped up underneath Brooks Reed and delivered a laser beam downfield).

[brasho]

Originally Posted by 87Canes

Brasho, he's a faster version of Tebow with a little bit better throwing motion and a much stronger arm.

He's Vince Young 2.0 (with a tad bit better throwing motion and stronger arm)- What helped VY is playing at Texas vs top notch competition and winning the Rose Bowl.

VY should have never been a 1st rd pick and that's obvious several years later.

K.I.S.S

Right, telling me to keep it simple and then calling me stupid... classy. Vince Young as a player has been excellent in case you've been in outerspace the past few years, it's Vince Young the person and teammate is where he is lacking.... besides that, hindsight is 20/20 my friend. By everybody with a brain's account at that time, VY should have been a 1st round pick.... if teams could redraft from that year, he would still be a 1st round pick, his onfield production has proven that much.

I can guarantee you CK doesn't score a 5 on his Wonderlic nor will he have a nervous breakdown and hissy fits the way VY has been know to do. VY has been a baby since losing the Heisman to Reggie Bush. All CK has done is go out and state that he needs to prove himself and then he has done that.

[brasho]

Originally Posted by 87Canes

Thank you! The pic was both CK and the receivers fault.

Right, the TE (Mike McNeil) had the ball hit both hands, he didn't jump, he reached up and handed it to the defense. The ball was thrown 20 yards downfield and hit the TE slightly above head level on both hands... sorry, that's the receiver's fault everytime and everyday of the week.

[RaiderNation]

I think he goes in the mid to late 2nd, maybe higher if he continues to look better at the combine

[AntoinCD]

I havent got caught too much up in the Kaepernick talk because I hadn't seen enough of him. But after seeing more through watching highlights of practices and the game at the senior bowl, and reading some reports on him Im worried about him as a prospect. QB is the one position where it is more about technique and smarts than anything else. As an athlete he looks the part. Big, tall guy with a very strong arm. But his throwing motion is elongated and I don't like his footwork in the pocket and I think he tries to run too often.Im not ruling him out to be successful in the NFL but any team that drafts him higher than the third and expects him to be the starter early will be disappointed.

[JPP90]

I have to lol at the love Kaepernick is getting on here. I really don't see it. If you think Colin Kaepernick is a better QB prospect than Jake Locker...PM me. I've got some gold I'm trying to sell.

[SRogers92]

CP is a 3rd Round prospect at this point ... I've seen some people say he's a late 1st Rounder which is not likely at all and for good reason ...

[JPP90]

Originally Posted by SRogers92

CP is a 3rd Round prospect at this point ... I've seen some people say he's a late 1st Rounder which is not likely at all and for good reason ...

At the end of the day I think Dalton will even go ahead of him. Its a drop-back passer league and Kaepernick isn't a drop-back passer, and his delivery is really going to bother people too.

[niel89]

I like Kaepernick as a guy that can maybe develop into a player down the road, but 1st round talk is crazy. They guy might creep into the 3rd.

I don't buy the Tebow comparison also. Tebow also played top competition and was a proven leader. I'm not saying that CK isn't but Tebow was a exemplary player in that regard.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by SRogers92

CP is a 3rd Round prospect at this point ... I've seen some people say he's a late 1st Rounder which is not likely at all and for good reason ...

He's too accurate? Too hard working? Too smart? He's a way more polished product than CK. Way more. Sure, he struggles with deep accuracy. However, CP is a prototypical WCO QB.

[PossibleCabbage]

Originally Posted by niel89

I don't buy the Tebow comparison also. Tebow also played top competition and was a proven leader. I'm not saying that CK isn't but Tebow was a exemplary player in that regard.

So are you insinuating that a guy can't be a proven leader if he doesn't play in the SEC? He's a four year starter and by everybody's accounts he legitimately loves football as much as anybody and is an extremely affable and charismatic young man.

The level of competition thing is absolutely true, but I firmly believe that Kaepernick has every bit as much of a chance to succeed in the NFL as Tebow. But in the interest of full disclosure, I never would have drafted Tebow in the first round either.

[FUNBUNCHER]

To be honest, if you break them down physically and how they play the game, there's not much difference between CK and Newton as QBs, and I say that as a compliment to both, ( guys I expect to eventually get it done in a big way at the next level).

[brasho]

Originally Posted by JPP90

At the end of the day I think Dalton will even go ahead of him. Its a drop-back passer league and Kaepernick isn't a drop-back passer, and his delivery is really going to bother people too.

Yes, the league is going more now to the dropback passers...that's why the Bradys and Mannings are dinosaurs at this point (they are great but they don't move their feet). Considering the Jets shutdown both in the playoffs and lost to the one mobile guy, OCs will be looking for guys that can move their feet even more. I guess that's why the 2 starting QBs in the Super Bowl were considered dropback passers, right?

You're wrong, teams want QBs that can move their feet, throw on the run. And if history has proven one thing, it's that young QBs that can move around have more success early than the ones that don't.

So if CK goes 2nd round, and you think Andy Dalton goes before him.... you're thinking Dalton is a 1st rounder? Based on what? His ability to manage a game? He doesn't have the tools a team would want to spend a reasonably high pick on him.

[brasho]

Originally Posted by niel89

I like Kaepernick as a guy that can maybe develop into a player down the road, but 1st round talk is crazy. They guy might creep into the 3rd.

I don't buy the Tebow comparison also. Tebow also played top competition and was a proven leader. I'm not saying that CK isn't but Tebow was a exemplary player in that regard.

Right, and playing the top level of competition is the most important attribute in a QB prospect. That's why guys like Roethlisberger, Flacco, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, and Matt Cassell (didn't play ANY competition in college because he never started a game) suck and always will while guys like Ryan Leaf, Ken Dorsey, Troy Smith, Tim Couch, JaMarcus Russell, Chris Leak, Quincy Carter, Chris Weinke, Eric Crouch, and Matt Leinart are the best. Level of competition is a tired and pointless argument. 30% of Super Bowl QBs played in what is considered lesser conferences or divisions of football. If anything history has proven, is that if a guy can play football against lower competition and can get himself in the NFL, he has a higher percentage chance of success compared to the ones from the major conferences (percentage wise).

[brasho]

There has only been 52 QBs to start Super Bowls, of the ones I listed, all played at schools as small (football-wise) or smaller than Nevada... and there were 15 QBs listed.... so that means nearly 30% of all SB QBs were from schools smaller than Nevada.... I think the "small-school" argument can be laid to rest once and for all.

Kurt Warner, Northern Iowa

Phil Simms, Morehouse

Doug Williams, Grambling

Roetthlisberger's got two, maybe three from Miami, OH

Roger Staubach, Navy

Terry Bradshaw, tiny little Louisiana Tech

Jim McMahon, BYU

Steve Young, BYU

Brett Favre, Southern Miss

Which one of these schools was a football factory?

then there were some Super Bowl losers:

Steve McNair was 2 yards from a win, Alcorn St.

Jake Delhomme Louisiana Lafayette

Ron Jaworski, Youngstown St.

Rich Gannon, Delaware

Stan Humphries, NE Louisiana

Ken Anderson, Augustana


Can we lay the small-school nonsense to rest once and for all?

[SKim172]

I think the Tebow comparison is apt, because Tebow had no business going in the first round. McDaniels was an idiot and I've yet to meet a Broncos fan who wouldn't agree.

One thing about Kaepernick - he'll have to make his money as a passer and nothing else. His speed is pure straight-line speed - he's not actually particularly agile and seems a little tight-hipped. Takes some time getting up to full speed and doesn't seem to move easily from sideline to sideline. Not a Mike Vick by any means.

[SolidGold]

I think the buzz Kaepernick generated at the senior bowl has made him a second round pick. It will be interesting to see how he performs at the combine.

[RealityCheck]

Originally Posted by niel89

I like Kaepernick as a guy that can maybe develop into a player down the road, but 1st round talk is crazy. They guy might creep into the 3rd.

Crazy? So the Jake Locker 1st round talk is normal, yet the CK 1st round talk is crazy?

[njx9]

Originally Posted by brasho

Doug Williams, Grambling

you mean the team with the all-time winningest coach (eddie robinson)? or the program that was, at the time, renowned for the number of players it sent to the nfl?

Roger Staubach, Navy

yeah, i mean, navy was only the #2 ranked team in the country at that point and playing in the de facto national championship.

Jim McMahon, BYU

Steve Young, BYU

yes, that tiny little school that won a national championship in 1984 and was widely known as quarterback u.

Which one of these schools was a football factory?

actually a few of them, but it's hard to fault you for not knowing what a simple internet search could've told you.

Originally Posted by brasho

Right, and playing the top level of competition is the most important attribute in a QB prospect. That's why guys like Roethlisberger, Flacco, Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, and Matt Cassell (didn't play ANY competition in college because he never started a game) suck and always will while guys like Ryan Leaf, Ken Dorsey, Troy Smith, Tim Couch, JaMarcus Russell, Chris Leak, Quincy Carter, Chris Weinke, Eric Crouch, and Matt Leinart are the best.

i agree. i mean, when you can throw out names like josh harris, casey bramlet, josh mccown, craig nall, j.t. o'sullivan, seth burford, wes pate, giovanni carmazzi, spergon wynn, chris greisen, jonathan quinn, charlie batch, mike cherry or tony corbin, your argument is basically made for you, right? i mean, just cherry-picking a few counter examples totally proves that there's no difference whatsoever for any player ever based on level of competition.

If anything history has proven, is that if a guy can play football against lower competition and can get himself in the NFL, he has a higher percentage chance of success compared to the ones from the major conferences (percentage wise).

all that shows is that you can manipulate statistics to mislead someone into believing nearly anything.

[87Canes]

Originally Posted by brasho

There has only been 52 QBs to start Super Bowls, of the ones I listed, all played at schools as small (football-wise) or smaller than Nevada... and there were 15 QBs listed.... so that means nearly 30% of all SB QBs were from schools smaller than Nevada.... I think the "small-school" argument can be laid to rest once and for all.

Kurt Warner, Northern Iowa

Phil Simms, Morehouse

Doug Williams, Grambling

Roetthlisberger's got two, maybe three from Miami, OH

Roger Staubach, Navy

Terry Bradshaw, tiny little Louisiana Tech

Jim McMahon, BYU

Steve Young, BYU

Brett Favre, Southern Miss

Which one of these schools was a football factory?

then there were some Super Bowl losers:

Steve McNair was 2 yards from a win, Alcorn St.

Jake Delhomme Louisiana Lafayette

Ron Jaworski, Youngstown St.

Rich Gannon, Delaware

Stan Humphries, NE Louisiana

Ken Anderson, Augustana


Can we lay the small-school nonsense to rest once and for all?

30%<70% by the way - We all know that you think the small school QB can make it in the NFL and I'm sure 90% of us agree that not every big school QB will produce in the NFL. There's too many variables to really put a finger on what makes a college QB successful in the NFL.

It's a game of adjustments and as QBs are I guess becoming more and more "out of the pocket" throwers, defenses will then adapt to those kind of QBs as well.

Aside from Rodgers, Vick, Big Ben and Sanchez, who else can you say are MOBILE QBs and not your typical "pocket passer"?

The QB position is still a pocket passers game, the mobile QB label just adds a dimension. Just like a RB than never fumbles and can catch the ball out of the backfield as well.

[brasho]

Originally Posted by SKim172

I think the Tebow comparison is apt, because Tebow had no business going in the first round. McDaniels was an idiot and I've yet to meet a Broncos fan who wouldn't agree.

One thing about Kaepernick - he'll have to make his money as a passer and nothing else. His speed is pure straight-line speed - he's not actually particularly agile and seems a little tight-hipped. Takes some time getting up to full speed and doesn't seem to move easily from sideline to sideline. Not a Mike Vick by any means.

Straightline speed can be a great thing for a QB, if you recall, the guy I compare CK to constantly had a ton of straightline speed, the guy otherwise known at one point in his career as "The Ultimate Weapon", Randall Cunningham.

[brasho]

Originally Posted by SKim172

I think the Tebow comparison is apt, because Tebow had no business going in the first round. McDaniels was an idiot and I've yet to meet a Broncos fan who wouldn't agree.

One thing about Kaepernick - he'll have to make his money as a passer and nothing else. His speed is pure straight-line speed - he's not actually particularly agile and seems a little tight-hipped. Takes some time getting up to full speed and doesn't seem to move easily from sideline to sideline. Not a Mike Vick by any means.

Also, CK does something that Tebow can never do and can be considered a big time hindrance on Tebow... CK throws with his righthand. Only 32 QBs in NFL history have started games as lefthanders. Coaches are hesitant to have to flip around their playboks for lefties, have their blindside OT the RT, etc. Tebow played well as a rookie... and that will only help CK's cause.